Brown - continued working tirelessly

Carroll - a steady performance

Bizzell - playing for keeps

Ward - playing for loss

C. Johnson - displayed more attitude

P. Johnson - was barely there

McLean - McLean we love

Robertson - a selfish performance

McDonald - not as prolific

Davey - slowly became relevant

Miller - a huge underachiever

White - a tireless game

Newton - had no influence

Garland - had no influence

Frawley - had no influence

Buckley - had no influence

Dunn - had no influence

Sylvia - made worthwhile contributions

Wheatley - couldn't maintain form

Godfrey - was comprehensively beaten

Jones - continued outstanding form

Bate - fumbled under pressure

Wow – look at those had no influence (they are our future stars are they not?)

How we need a gun key defender, Hall, Pavlich and Brown have all had massive games against us this year. Though they try, Carroll, Frawley, Rivers (when fit) don’t have the necessary size to compete against the power forwards. Heopfully the draft brings us some relief in that area.

Miller - a huge underachiever

This figures......

Because after playing all season (including at Sandy) in "attack", this being only his second match actually playing in defence, playing on (or at least trying to) the biggest and arguably the best forward talent in the league, who is getting perfect silver service due to absolutely no Demon pressure from our inept mid-field in the first quarter, which gave him absolutely no chance whatsoever, Miller was bound to be the one held particularly responsible for this thrashing.

He was completely out-classed by Brown. I am not making any argument otherwise because it would be untrue, and I would be eaten alive around here, but seriously he was not the one solely responsible for the genuinely horrible start, despite his close proximity to it. Sometimes the defence, despite being the easy, cheap, and unimaginative targets when teams get routed, actually need some help from the engine room. And in the first quarter there was absolutely none.

Carroll definitely did a far superior job, but a hell of a lot of that can be attributed to the fact that, well he is our primary defender, is trained for it, and therefore should be better and more skillful at that end of the ground, but more importantly for this particular game is the fact that our the mids started actually trying to stop the ball (with a little bit of tackling and stuff) from flying into the Brisbane forward line with the ease of a hot knife through butter.

I realise what people think of Brad Miller around here, but he hopefully will continue to play in defence this year (Riley said as much in his press conference) and be given the opportunity to learn the ropes and therefore get this part of his game right. And this is a cheap shot at a popular target in my opinion, sorry.

You could off had the best defenders in the league playing for us last night and it wouldn't of made a difference. Our preassure through the midfield on the player with the ball was a disgrace. If your midfield is getting beaten like ours has all year your fowards and backs will always struggle. Round 1 I posted that our foot and hand skills are a disgrace. We don't sheppard, our tackling is ok but we are getting wrong footed and mising to many easy tackles when it counts.

Runing out of defense we miss easy targets and turn it over which catches our players out of position. People bag CJ but at least he hits targets and looks comfortable with his disposal skills. Some players that have had a lot more oppurtunity than him still have skills that you expect watching suburban footy not AFL.

I thought Davey had another poor game. In the first quarter where the game was won and lost, he had no influence at all, and failed to get a possession. Most of his stats and goals came when the game was over in junk time. And to top it off, he will get reported for striking Selwood.

Not sure how the Sunday Age gave him Melbournes best player in front of McLean.

You could off had the best defenders in the league playing for us last night and it wouldn't of made a difference. footy not AFL.

Well that was the point I was trying to make, albeit with (many) more words......

You are just far more succinct drdrake, cheers :D

I thought Davey had another poor game.......

Not sure how the Sunday Age gave him Melbournes best player in front of McLean.

Simple statistics, I guess Ash.....

He did kick four goals, therefore his probably looked better than everyon elses.

And this is a cheap shot at a popular target in my opinion, sorry.

we think not. KISS.

Chronic underachievers, like coaches, have a limited shelf life. Unless youre Melbourne.

Riley is doing what is needed & throwing the dice with the list. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Its time to draw the line.

Its time to get rid of any player that will not assist in attaining the ultimate for this club.

Every player has a right to deal their fate. But for this club, time is a precious commodity

Its Miller time.

Geez, you are going to pick at me on everything now aren't you?

But while I agree with you in principle, I was talking particularly about last night.

And how all circumstances should be taken into account before rendering judgment.

We have the rest of this season to see who we will be taking in the next.

So lets see what happens between now and then, shall we........

Sylvia was voted best demon at the after match function

Col is a midfielder and last night looked his best when in that role. We needto get him fit enough to be a midfielder first that can push forward. He was far from our best last night, Brock was easy.

I don't know why we look at Whites stats and say he plays well. He got smashed again in ruckwork and took 1 contested mark against a man that was 5'10. He is unaccountable, refuses to run with the opposition ruckman and gets cheap kicks on the wings. OK he kicked two goals great, but even when he clearly won tap outs they go straight to nobody in a red and blue jumper.

How can you say that Frawley had no influence??

He was probably the only winner we had in the backline last night.

Kept a very dangerous Brennan quiet, after he had his best match last week with 7 shots on goal and 4 goals.

Frawley was very good. He's improving with each game and each task he is set.

As for Miller, there isn't a defender on this planet who can stop Jonathan Brown when the Brisbane midfield are under no pressure to deliver the ball to him.

Not to mention that like the Sydney game, he was left one-out with their big man. We have learnt NOTHING, and Miller is the one who cops the blame.

Thought he did well after he was moved, both with his defensive pressure and his attack on the ball. He deserves a year to learn the ropes down back.

We have learnt NOTHING, and Miller is the one who cops the blame.

Unforutnatelt this is not particularly surprising........

Thought he did well after he was moved, both with his defensive pressure and his attack on the ball. He deserves a year to learn the ropes down back.

I agree with you here as well Jaded......

But this is also not partcicularly surprising :D !!!

I can not comprehend this defence of miller. He was not even contesting! Fair enough no one can physically match it with Brown, but good players know how to harrass, cut off leads and at least make a contest of it. He has no development left in him, he has been stagnant for 3 years now.

You can't defend a hard leading forward when he has space to lead into and a midfield that has no pressure on them putting the ball on his chest. Carroll was only better because the space was taken away from Brown and our midfield became more accountable. The forward will asways get a jump on a defender on the lead you just hope as a defender that the kick is a littl of so you can close and effect a spoil. Last night the lions midfield hit Brown lace out in space. I agree Miller will never be our number 1 defender but I still believe he is a better option than Holland, Ferguson and Warnock.

He has no development left in him, he has been stagnant for 3 years now.

As a forward I have to agree with you......

But as a defender I don't think he has been given nearly enough time or training to gain necessary and vastly different skills set to make that judgement.

He hasn't been there for any length of time and last night was a calamity from top to bottom that was not just of his making.

Or what drdrake said !!!

miller's game after half time was actually very good. his defensive pressure was good, his strength and decision making above average.

i saw a good defenders game in the second half

As a forward I have to agree with you......

But as a defender I don't think he has been given nearly enough time or training to gain necessary and vastly different skills set to make that judgement.

He hasn't been there for any length of time and last night was a calamity from top to bottom that was not just of his making.

Or what drdrake said !!!

With the greatest respect to the wide eyed optimists on this site I long ago formed the view that Miller is indescribably inept.I have perused all lists to see if there is any other genuine nominations for the for the award of "2007 worst player on an AFL list".Sadly and tragically for the club there is not.However on a brighter note this year he didnt while unopposed hit the footy straight to a loitering opposition player in the goal square.It has become a joke.

With the greatest respect to the wide eyed optimists on this site I long ago formed the view that Miller is indescribably inept.I have perused all lists to see if there is any other genuine nominations for the for the award of "2007 worst player on an AFL list".Sadly and tragically for the club there is not.However on a brighter note this year he didnt while unopposed hit the footy straight to a loitering opposition player in the goal square.It has become a joke.

That is completely untrue. For starters, Kent Kingsley is still on an AFL list.

Also, Miller worked hard after half time and kept his head up. He shut down his new opponent, made some good decisions and was typically aggressive.

We won't gain anything from a trade, and there are plenty of others who should be delisted ahead of him. He's still young (Carroll was 25 when he started to show signs of being a capable player), and if he is given adequate time and training, he could be a good defender.

He has reasonable pace, he is big, he is aggressive, and IMO he is far better following a forward, than making the play.

Also, Nathan Brown kicked the ball to the opposition in the goal square this year. Is he the worst player on an AFL list?

Sylvia - made worthwhile contributions

I always look foward to your analysis joeboy, and i know we all have our allegencies to players, but last week you gave Sylvia BOG, and this week i can't cop that Sylvia was any better last night than many of your "no influence" players. He looked good late when the game was in "junk time", so that doesn't count for me.

I also read that Sylvia was given BOG, by the coaching staff, is this right? if so, maybe he had another job he did grea that i was unaware about(like Davey with Houlihan last week). If so i stand to be corrected.

I know this post will [censored] a lot of people off, because there is plenty of Sylvia love going on throughout these boards at the moment, but i am still not convinced that Col will become the superstar we all want him to be.

Mr Joe, my brother & I thought that Dunn was starring for a while. I have also said for a weeks now that if Jones doesn't win our best player this year I'd be very surprised.

You can't defend a hard leading forward when he has space to lead into and a midfield that has no pressure on them putting the ball on his chest. Carroll was only better because the space was taken away from Brown and our midfield became more accountable. The forward will asways get a jump on a defender on the lead you just hope as a defender that the kick is a littl of so you can close and effect a spoil. Last night the lions midfield hit Brown lace out in space. I agree Miller will never be our number 1 defender but I still believe he is a better option than Holland, Ferguson and Warnock.

Good post Dr. I think they need to see what they can get off Miller in the next 12 months.

I can not comprehend this defence of miller. He was not even contesting! Fair enough no one can physically match it with Brown, but good players know how to harrass, cut off leads and at least make a contest of it. He has no development left in him, he has been stagnant for 3 years now.

Agreed

Milller strikes me as the perpetual square peg in a team of round holes. he just doesnt return good value.. FOR US !! for some other team with some other attributes and holes to fill he may be a god send. lets trade on that and get value for him.

FCS..if he hasnt struck gold in a team of hapless Dees to date...he never will...ppl just face it !!

Mr Joe, my brother & I thought that Dunn was starring for a while. I have also said for a weeks now that if Jones doesn't win our best player this year I'd be very surprised.

It was strange. But im pretty sure Dunn spent the first 10 minutes of the third quarter on the pine. This is clearly too long unless he's injured. He didnt get a touch for the whole game after that.