Punt on Cousins

[Dee*ceiving 1,724]

The man can play.

Do one of those mental/psychological tests (you know the ones that they do on prospective police to learn if they are likley to goo postal with a gun in their hands etc) on him and if he passes get him in red and blue.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

do you think that should be wadas policy too? no other sport (except rugby league) gets out of competition testing for recreational drugs.

FWIW, regarding ice helping him, i highly doubt it would. there is a reason why it is not listed as a performance enhancing drug but that caffeine is. you dont get kicked out for having levels of caffeine but they know that caffeine is performance enhancing. drugs might effect people differently, but it doesnt make one person high and out of their mind while turning the other into a supreme athlete. their ios a clear difference between recreational drugs and performance enhancing drugs which has been established by scientists and acknowledge by all relevant drug testing and sport governing bodies.

AFL Footballers are more highly paid. What other sports get as highly paid as AFL? Tennis? You have to actually win to get paid. Athletics? Swimming? No u have to get good sponsors. Most are performance based sports where as AFL is not. AFL u get a base salary every year and lucky them! Give me $800 grand a year like Cousins and u can drug test me every damn day if u want, small price to pay for the money and respect that comes with playing AFL.

I have never taken Ice nor do I intend to but you dont know if it enchanced Cousins it might have its not like he played badly.

[Kit Walker 225]

AFL Footballers are more highly paid. What other sports get as highly paid as AFL? Tennis? You have to actually win to get paid.

You have to win to get paid in tennis?

Two words - Anna Kournikova

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

You have to win to get paid in tennis?

Two words - Anna Kournikova

Generally you do yes, shes a one in a million she was lucky. I dont think someone like Alicia Molik is on $800 grand a year though

[Kit Walker 225]

Generally you do yes, shes a one in a million she was lucky. I dont think someone like Alicia Molik is on $800 grand a year though

Career earnings $2.4 million to date and she's 26.

I know what you're getting at but there are lots of sports that have massive base salaries and aren't restricted to 16 clubs in one country - soccer, baseball, basketball, gridiron.

[deanox 10,045]

I have never taken Ice nor do I intend to but you dont know if it enchanced Cousins it might have its not like he played badly.

thats a ridiculous argument. ive never injected myself with steroids but i know they promote muscle growth. i know willow bark tea is a pain killer, and i know that poppy tea can make you high and sleepy (among other things). ive never taken laxatives but i know what type of effect they would have on me while i was trying to play football.

these chemicals dont work in random ways bandwagon, there is a whole heap of scientific knowledge out there. ice is related to amphetamines which are a stimulant. from wikipedia a range of effects of methampetamines include:

* Euphoria

* Increased energy and attentiveness

* Diarrhea, nausea

* Loss of appetite, insomnia, tremor, jaw-clenching (Bruxism)

* Agitation, compulsive fascination with repetitive tasks (Punding)

* Talkativeness, irritability, panic attacks

* Increased libido

* Dilated pupils

while not a definitive collection or the most reliable source this list suggest ice is not going to make you bigger and stronger than your opposition. run faster than them, or catch a ball better than them. it might increase the thrill involved in the game, increase the players alertness but it could also cause panic attacks when they play in front of 50,000 ppl, make them try and hump the umpire or throw up at quarter time.

fwiw ben cousins has been tested 14 times and has always come back clean. justin charles was caught. thats enough to get him kicked out of the game.

ive made my feelings on this issue known and im not gonna bother to argue any more. if you still think that ice would improve performance you're not listening or you have a different idea aobut performance enhancing than the rest of the world. im not saying its right. im not saying ben should get off, but you have to look at this situation rationally, not just jump up and down because you are have issues with drugs.

[grazman 7,504]

Just a point of clarification.... If anyone wants to look on the WADA website they will find that Methamphetimines are actually classified as performance enhancing drugs... Not that Benny (if he was taking them - for all you flat earth believers) was taking them for performance enhancing reasons...

[deanox 10,045]

Just a point of clarification.... If anyone wants to look on the WADA website they will find that Methamphetimines are actually classified as performance enhancing drugs...

on the wada site their is a file called the 2007 list of banned substances

2007 banned substances

this document is broken up into a number of different sections. the section which methamphetamine is listed under is 'substances and methods prohibited in competition'. it is not listed as a performance enhancing substance, and it is not listed as prohibited out of competition.

[grazman 7,504]

on the wada site their is a file called the 2007 list of banned substances

2007 banned substances

this document is broken up into a number of different sections. the section which methamphetamine is listed under is 'substances and methods prohibited in competition'. it is not listed as a performance enhancing substance, and it is not listed as prohibited out of competition.

My error... Still prohibited though.

[deanox 10,045]

My error... Still prohibited though.

still prohibited IN competition. i never said it wasnt. if they get tested on holiday and test positive for methamphet and for steroids they will only be in trouble for the steroids. cousins never tested positive to anything, let alone in competition. if anything, the suggestion is he has used drugs on holidays, during preseason and on big nights out after a game.

i9m not defending him. i wouldnt want him at our club. but there is a difference between methamphet and steroids that has now been established by the wada documentation.

[grazman 7,504]

still prohibited IN competition. i never said it wasnt. if they get tested on holiday and test positive for methamphet and for steroids they will only be in trouble for the steroids. cousins never tested positive to anything, let alone in competition. if anything, the suggestion is he has used drugs on holidays, during preseason and on big nights out after a game.

i9m not defending him. i wouldnt want him at our club. but there is a difference between methamphet and steroids that has now been established by the wada documentation.

Agree, but why have a different testing regime than every other sport. The suggestion is that he was an adict which means he would have been taking the drug regularly... he didn't test positive... that should be ringing a few alarm bells in AFL house. It also begs a definition of what IN competition means for professional athletes.

[deanox 10,045]

Agree, but why have a different testing regime than every other sport. The suggestion is that he was an adict which means he would have been taking the drug regularly... he didn't test positive... that should be ringing a few alarm bells in AFL house. It also begs a definition of what IN competition means for professional athletes.

not really...we were testing and recording both in and out of competition for 'recreational' drugs.

the only afl players who ave tested positive to recreational drugs (under the 3 strike system) had to be positives out of competition because otherwise they would have been suspended.

fwiw i believe the season is entirely in competition, not sure how much of the off season is considered in competition.

ben just has never tested positive. which suggests he was never using drugs when he was tested. maybe he was a user who got lucky, who became an addict over the preseason? a drug habbit can be different that an addict.

[Kit Walker 225]

fwiw i believe the season is entirely in competition, not sure how much of the off season is considered in competition.

I think that's right. I thought it started about 6 weeks before the pre-season competition but I've nothing to base that on.

Given that he is supposed to have had an addiction, hence his trip to Arizona, it sounds like he was just lucky. Although with the AFL's drug testing numbers and ring before they turn up policy you could probably say he was just not extremely unlucky

[grazman 7,504]

not really...we were testing and recording both in and out of competition for 'recreational' drugs.

the only afl players who ave tested positive to recreational drugs (under the 3 strike system) had to be positives out of competition because otherwise they would have been suspended.

fwiw i believe the season is entirely in competition, not sure how much of the off season is considered in competition.

ben just has never tested positive. which suggests he was never using drugs when he was tested. maybe he was a user who got lucky, who became an addict over the preseason? a drug habbit can be different that an addict.

Most amphetimines are out of the system within 24 hours.... Which makes you wonder about the Port Adelaide situation and Cousins himself... the rumour doing the rounds was that Cousins was off his face with Chick when they were told they would be tested the next day... neither player fronted for the drug test.... yet strangely no repercussions.... apart from Benny packing his bags and flicking the club the bird.... His family and the club made reference to the fact that he'd had a substance abuse problem since July.

Drug testing is seriously compromised, look at cycling... Oil based steroids are detectable for about one month and water based steroids for about a week.... most athletes that are caught are vicitims of their own stupidity because they don't follow the instructions that are given and think they know better or are too scared that it will lead to a tapering of their performance.... There were even allegations that some time ago Eastern bloke countries were developing synthetic steroids that were undetectable - obviously because no one knew what to look for. It's not surprising that players that are using speed, meth, ecstacy or even cocaine aren't caught regularly, I'd go so far as to say the three that have tested positive twice are likely to have tested to something like cannabis... which can remain in the body for up to a month after use.

The only answer to try and solve what is a seriously complicated problem is to test every player and test them frequently.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

these chemicals dont work in random ways bandwagon, there is a whole heap of scientific knowledge out there. ice is related to amphetamines which are a stimulant. from wikipedia a range of effects of methampetamines include:

* Increased energy and attentiveness

while not a definitive collection or the most reliable source this list suggest ice is not going to make you bigger and stronger than your opposition. run faster than them, or catch a ball better than them. it might increase the thrill involved in the game, increase the players alertness but it could also cause panic attacks when they play in front of 50,000 ppl, make them try and hump the umpire or throw up at quarter time.

fwiw ben cousins has been tested 14 times and has always come back clean. justin charles was caught. thats enough to get him kicked out of the game.

ive made my feelings on this issue known and im not gonna bother to argue any more. if you still think that ice would improve performance you're not listening or you have a different idea aobut performance enhancing than the rest of the world. im not saying its right. im not saying ben should get off, but you have to look at this situation rationally, not just jump up and down because you are have issues with drugs.

Well thats why we are there to argue whats the fun in giving up now? Increased energy and attentiveness, how does that not help on the field? I just think its unfair, its a fact he does it, he is too much of a coward to come out and say it for fear of incriminating himself but he should be banned end of story. Just like Justin Charles.

And for the record I dont think soccer players in Australia earn the money footballers do. If AFL and whatever the rugby code is (i have no idea hate rugby) get drug tested then good, they get paid enough to put up with it.