The Hole in the Heart of the AFL

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

9 hours ago, rjay said:

Sounds like a good job for Joel Selwood...

And lure him back from rugby league - no thanks.  I'm happy with him right where he is.

Seriously - how does a bloke that made a career out of ducking to get tackled around the neck get employed by a sport that the aim is to takle the opposition in the place where a neck should be, but has is absent in it's players due to an evolutionary process of genetic selection?

[dice 595]

4 hours ago, A F said:

In many ways, the modern AFL is a far superior product than say its 90s incarnation

Really? Name the "many ways" please.

Mid 80s to mid 90s, the "product" had:

• Better and tougher players overall (e.g. Ablett, Carey, Williams, Dunstall, Lockett, Sumich, Modra, Harvey, Stynes, etc.)
• Less interchange thus more endurance
• Bigger crowds (per capita)
• Higher scores and more accurate kicking for goal
• Less compromised fixtures
• Better umpiring
• Less rules (and confusion)
• State of Origin footy

If all of the above had the same exposure/money the current "product" enjoys, it would be far, far, "far superior"

Edited June 19, 2023 by dice

[Binmans PA 26,772]

4 minutes ago, dice said:

Really? Name the "many ways" please.

Mid 80s to mid 90s, the "product" had:

• Better and tougher players overall (e.g. Ablett, Carey, Williams, Dunstall, Lockett, Sumich, Modra, Harvey, Stynes, etc.)
• Less interchange thus more endurance
• Bigger crowds (per capita)
• Higher scores and more accurate kicking for goal
• Less compromised fixtures
• Better umpiring
• Less rules (and confusion)
• Bigger crowds (per capita)
• State of Origin footy

If all of the above had the same exposure/money the current "product" enjoys, it would be far, far, "far superior"

It all comes down to system and tactics, and modern footballers are legit athletes these days, so much greater endurance than the 90s.

[dice 595]

44 minutes ago, A F said:

It all comes down to system and tactics, and modern footballers are legit athletes these days, so much greater endurance than the 90s.

You're kidding right. The game has been played for nearly 2 centuries and there have been countless examples of "legit athletes" down through the years. A lot of footballers in the past could actually compete with the serious athletes of the day (e.g. Bluey Adams). But most of the players now wouldn't even get close to becoming an athletics champion.

For example, I would be interested to know how many current players would make this list on which half are from "the 90s":
https://runthetan.net/hall-of-fame/fastest-afl-players-and-umpires/

Edited June 19, 2023 by dice

[Binmans PA 26,772]

3 minutes ago, dice said:

You're kidding right. The game has been played for nearly 2 centuries and there have been countless examples of "legit athletes" down through the years. A lot of footballers in the past could actually compete with the serious athletes of the day (e.g. Bluey Adams). But most of the players now wouldn't even get close to becoming an athletics champion.

For example, I would be interested to know how many current players would make this list on which there are a lot of players from "the 90s":
https://runthetan.net/hall-of-fame/fastest-afl-players-and-umpires/

No, you're absolutely right. Billy Brownless and Tony Lockett were elite athletic specimens.

[dice 595]

Just now, A F said:

No, you're absolutely right. Billy Brownless and Tony Lockett were elite athletic specimens.

Better footballers than most of the current crop. And Plugger is probably fitter now than most too

[Binmans PA 26,772]

Haha righto. Each to their own.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

1 hour ago, dice said:

Better footballers than most of the current crop. And Plugger is probably fitter now than most too

I knòw this isn't the 'AFL look a likes' thread, but:

Looks scarier than when he was leading towards Peter Craven, elbow aimed.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

1 hour ago, A F said:

No, you're absolutely right. Billy Brownless and Tony Lockett were elite athletic specimens.

That they were not, but they could certainly play football.  Add to that guys like Abblet senior, Dunstall, Alan Jackovic and others that may not have made it in the ultra professional, money and image driven AFL era.  These guys all put on a show and I think the game had more character back then, due to the diversity of players backgrounds and physical attributes.

Also miss the local suburban grounds like Princess Park, the Western Oval and Windy Hill etc.  Oddly enough, I even miss Waverly - again character and the game was accessible to the everyday supporter.

[The heart beats true 16,736]

6 hours ago, A F said:

The only union people in the Labor Party are union executives, who have not been voted by the membership, but placed there by the executive arm (think Bob Hawke as pres of ACTU).

This is the modern world. Complete corporate capture. The corporatisation of sport, politics, arts etc. But provided my football club remains, it is what it is.

In many ways, the modern AFL is a far superior product than say its 90s incarnation, because of the amount of resources poured into the sport. The strategy, mental health and overall professionalism of the game is incredible. 

The only gripe I have with the AFL, and this will be contentious with some, is the faux corporate centrism that pretends to care about minorities to cash grab. If the AFL was really an inclusive sport, you'd have openly gay players for one. It's this sort of staged liberalism that really annoys me. And the corporate sector has gone crazy for it, which flows into how you finance things.

I disagree with the notion that a sporting environment isn’t inclusive because we don’t have an openly gay player. Why would they come out? It’s just unnecessary pressure. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t openly gay players at clubs that everyone at the club knows is gay. It’s just means it’s not in the paper.

Conversely the NRL has had openly gay players since the 90’s - but that was the opposite of inclusivity as someone basically tried to extort Ian Roberts and the Newspapers were going to publish the story against his will.

I do totally agree about the corporate sector falling over themselves for cultural stuff though. It’s all just an excuse for them to talk about themselves.

[Binmans PA 26,772]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I disagree with the notion that a sporting environment isn’t inclusive because we don’t have an openly gay player. Why would they come out? It’s just unnecessary pressure. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t openly gay players at clubs that everyone at the club knows is gay. It’s just means it’s not in the paper.

Conversely the NRL has had openly gay players since the 90’s - but that was the opposite of inclusivity as someone basically tried to extort Ian Roberts and the Newspapers were going to publish the story against his will.

I do totally agree about the corporate sector falling over themselves for cultural stuff though. It’s all just an excuse for them to talk about themselves.

That's fair.

[dice 595]

13 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Abblet senior, Dunstall, Alan Jackovic and others that may not have made it in the ultra professional, money and image driven AFL era

Absolute nonsense. You are talking about two of the absolute greats of the game. They would have made it in any "era"

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

Here is a classic example of why I have no faith that we have the right people running the AFL

 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/acting-afl-ceo-andrew-dillon-says-rules-are-clear-on-what-is-a-dangerous-tackle/news-story/cd8025c59325fbe58148b949cb56598e

 

The Xavier mafia need to be forced out

[The heart beats true 16,736]

41 minutes ago, A F said:

That's fair.

That’s no fun. Disagree with me damn it!

[redandbluemakepurple 333]

5 hours ago, A F said:

If you're going to lead the MRO, you'd want someome who's played the game at the elite level this century.

Michael Christian retired in 1995. It's only 28 years ago...

Alternately I believe that ex-players have conflicts of interests that outweigh the "street-cred".  They feel a need to let players injure each other in a manly fashion as in the olden days.  The ability to use their judgement or discretion makes them feel empowered and needed but randomises the results

The AFL approach is unprofessional (I was worried the swear-filter would pick that up LOL).

If you want a consistent outcome, you first have very very detailed rules.  We already vision from multiple angles.  Then it is very easy to tick the boxes and spit out a result.

Engineers and tradesmen have been doing this for years.  

[layzie 30,450]

8 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

That’s no fun. Disagree with me damn it!

Damn good communication skill! 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

8 hours ago, dice said:

Absolute nonsense. You are talking about two of the absolute greats of the game. They would have made it in any "era"

They may or may not have.  Not sure any of them were great trainers and may not even have made it onto an AFL list just based on their respective body shapes and if they did make it they may have been cut quickly due to attitude issues.

It's a pretty hypothetical question and there is obviously The counter argument that they may have risen to the professional environment around them and thrived.  Guys like Alan Jackovic who has openly spoken about his lack of preseason training early on (which he attributed his being injury prone to) might actually have benefited from the more professional environment and that would have been great to have seen him perform at his peak for longer (for us).

[layzie 30,450]

9 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I knòw this isn't the 'AFL look a likes' thread, but:

Looks scarier than when he was leading towards Peter Craven, elbow aimed.

It probably needed to be said though! 

[layzie 30,450]

11 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

They may or may not have.  Not sure any of them were great trainers and may not even have made it onto an AFL list just based on their respective body shapes and if they did make it they may have been cut quickly due to attitude issues.

It's a pretty hypothetical question and there is obviously The counter argument that they may have risen to the professional environment around them and thrived.  Guys like Alan Jackovic who has openly spoken about his lack of preseason training early on (which he attributed his being injury prone to) might actually have benefited from the more professional environment and that would have been great to have seen him perform at his peak for longer (for us).

That's right.

I think it's just too subjective to pit these era against each other in terms of fitness and athletic ability. One one hand you look at the 90s and see players largely sticking to positions, not many Nick Riewoldt CHFs running high kms each game but then there were a lot less rotations so you had a lot of mids and even ruckmen running most of the day. These days everyone needs to be an athlete but they are managed better and have more resources, I would say overall they are fitter but it's just so hard to tell by how much.

 

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

11 hours ago, dice said:

Really? Name the "many ways" please.

Mid 80s to mid 90s, the "product" had:

• Better and tougher players overall (e.g. Ablett, Carey, Williams, Dunstall, Lockett, Sumich, Modra, Harvey, Stynes, etc.)
• Less interchange thus more endurance
• Bigger crowds (per capita)
• Higher scores and more accurate kicking for goal
• Less compromised fixtures
• Better umpiring
• Less rules (and confusion)
• State of Origin footy

If all of the above had the same exposure/money the current "product" enjoys, it would be far, far, "far superior"

You've gone back about 30 years and suggested football was better then. I'd suggest that in the mid 80s and 90s, football watchers thought the game was better 30 years before that when there players like Ted Whitten, Bob Skilton, Ron Barassi, etc.

In other words, the MAGA approach (Make AFL Great Again) is pretty much in the eye of the beholder.

And one serious improvement over the 1980s and 1990s which shouldn't be ignored is the attempt to protect players' health and in particular their mental health. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,130]

I will say players had to kick on both sides of the body in the 80's and 90's, don't see to many exponents of that skill set these days.

Kicked barrels for fun also.

Edited June 20, 2023 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[TRIGON 4,725]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:43 AM, old dee said:

The old boys club continues. 

But I KNOW that it's not a 'boy's club', I KNOW that because THEY told me that it's not.