Stats Files - 2023

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

Lever surprisingly low, thought he's been having a solid season. I think Bowser is going to start rising up that list quickly, getting back to his 2021 form.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

Thanks DD welcome back to bad about Covid hope you are feeling better, stats look way down on a lot of players.!!

Thanks DZ.  So far nothing like omicron but only into day three and thats when that version went from ok to worse lol.  Fingers crossed.

Massive pressure issues on the plane coming down to land though.  This version appears to attack / block up the ear canal!??  Only had that issue once in all my years of flying as an ankle biter on my first ever trip.

Yes a number of players off their usual standards vs GC.  It seems some aren't handling the interstate trips all that well so far in 2023 for some reason.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, Hellaintabadplacetobe said:

Lever surprisingly low, thought he's been having a solid season. I think Bowser is going to start rising up that list quickly, getting back to his 2021 form.

Lever up approx 10% on last year's season stats Hell so doing pretty well especially since he had a week off in Rnd 5 vs the Bombers due to an ankle.  Hasn't gained much in a rankings sense as others have also had some big gains and leap-frogged somewhat.

Thanks for raising where Bowey is at.  I took another look through each of his match ratings and he only had one significant 'off' match (statistically) vs the Tigers in Rnd 6.  I also noticed a drop in his ranking at one point on the weekly season tables which was prior to the Tiger's low rating which didn't make sense.

That sent alarm bells ringing so i did a review and found a reference error in one round.  After a full rebuild on his data this saw his rating improve approx 9%, jumping him up 4 places.  5% up on his 2022 season and 4% up on his 2021 season so your assessment seemed pretty accurate ty.

I've also run a random review on a good sample size of players to ensure the remaining data is not compromised and all's well.

Updated season ratings/rankings with Bowey's data corrected...

Player	2023 Rating	2023 Rank	2022 Rating	% Change vs 2022	2022 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2022
C Oliver	5.444	1	5.320	2.33	1	0
C Petracca	4.822	2	4.456	8.21	2	0
A Brayshaw	3.866	3	3.839	0.70	5	2
T Rivers	3.815	4	2.423	57.45	18	14
Jack Viney	3.714	5	3.971	-6.47	3	-2
J Jordon >	3.682	6	3.164	16.37	9	3
A Tomlinson	3.233	7	2.079	55.51	22	15
T Sparrow	3.206	8	2.665	20.30	16	8
Max Gawn # <	3.163	9	3.215	-1.62	8	-1
L Hunter	3.138	10	-	-	-	-
B Grundy #	3.078	11	-	-	-	-
K Pickett	3.021	12	2.118	42.63	21	9
Jake Bowey	3.003	13	2.856	5.15	13	0
Steven May	3.000	14	3.971	-24.45	3	-11
Jake Lever	2.986	15	2.703	10.47	14	-1
Ed Langdon	2.963	16	3.109	-4.70	11	-5
M Hibberd <	2.791	17	2.613	6.81	17	0
K Chandler	2.688	18	-	-	-	-
Alex N-Bullen	2.681	19	2.688	-0.26	15	-4
J Harmes >	2.671	20	3.082	-13.34	12	-8
H Petty #	2.361	21	2.392	-1.30	19	-2
T McDonald #	2.344	22	1.939	20.89	26	4
J V Rooyen #	2.304	23	-	-	-	-
Judd McVee	2.247	24	-	-	-	-
B Fritsch	2.075	25	1.936	7.18	27	2
Ben Brown # <	2.033	26	1.759	15.58	29	3
C Spargo <	1.935	27	1.981	-2.32	24	-3
J Melksham >	1.437	28	1.947	-26.19	25	-3
B Laurie < *	1.300	29	-	-	-	-
D Turner < *	1.075	30
Team Rating	71.67		68.89	4.04

Edited May 13, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Round 9, 2023 MCG - Demons vs Hawks

Rivers slowly emerging as one of the better rebounding defenders in the AFL?

Roohey did pretty well i thought given the nonsense week he had to go through.

A decent game from May on his 200th.

Yet another solid performance from Gus, Tracc, Clarry and Viney.  Viney would've rated alot higher bar a team high 8 turnovers.

The time out must have done Hibb the world of good with his second best result (statistically) for the year (the best was Rnd 6 vs the Tigers by a smidgen with a 4.050).

Judd still doing some lovely work, particularly early in the match for mine.

A snapshot of River's output...

20 effectives @ 83%, 1 contested mark, 3 one percenters, 3 rebounds, 3 inside 50s, 5 tackles, 4 score involvements, 9 intercepts, 284 meters gained, 1 Goal and just 2 turnovers.

Player	Rating	Rank
T Rivers	5.150	1
C Petracca	4.900	2
C Oliver	4.550	3
J Viney	4.350	4
M Hibberd	4.000	5
G Brayshaw	3.950	6
S May	3.700	7
Ed Langdon	3.600	8
A N-Bullen	3.400	9
L Hunter	3.150	10
J Lever	3.100	11
Max Gawn #	3.000	12
J McVee	2.975	13
K Pickett	2.750	14
J Bowey	2.650	15
C Spargo	2.300	16
J V Rooyen #	2.225	17
B Fritsch	1.975	18
B Grundy #	1.800	19
T Sparrow	1.475	20
J Jordon > 35%	1.425	21
H Petty < 33%	1.200	22
K Chandler	1.100	23
Team Rating	67.63
Top 6	26.90
Bottom 6	10.10

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed out / TOG %

> Subbed in / TOG %

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

Edited May 13, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Ratings to Rnd 9, 2023 vs H&A Season 2022

Rivers an outstanding year so far!

Hibb back with a bang and in very fine fettle

May's best game (statistically) since Rnd 6 vs the Tigers on his 200th

Tracc & Pickett still bubbling along very nicely vs 2022

Jordan continues to maintain his excellent form despite limited / choppy game time as the sub

Player	2023 Rating	2023 Rank	2022 Rating	% Change vs 2022	2022 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2022
C Oliver	5.344	1	5.320	0.45	1	0
C Petracca	4.831	2	4.456	8.42	2	0
T Rivers	3.967	3	2.423	63.72	18	15
A Brayshaw	3.874	4	3.839	0.91	5	1
Jack Viney	3.794	5	3.971	-4.46	3	-2
J Jordon >	3.709	6	3.164	17.23	9	3
A Tomlinson	3.233	7	2.079	55.51	22	15
L Hunter	3.139	8	-	-	-	-
Max Gawn # <	3.130	9	3.215	-2.64	8	-1
Steven May	3.100	10	3.971	-21.93	3	-7
M Hibberd	3.063	11	2.613	17.22	17	6
Ed Langdon	3.033	12	3.109	-2.44	11	-1
T Sparrow	3.014	13	2.665	13.10	16	3
Jake Lever	3.000	14	2.703	10.99	14	0
K Pickett	2.982	15	2.118	40.79	21	6
Jake Bowey	2.964	16	2.856	3.78	13	-3
B Grundy #	2.936	17	-	-	-	-
Alex N-Bullen	2.761	18	2.688	2.72	15	-3
J Harmes	2.671	19	3.082	-13.34	12	-7
K Chandler	2.511	20	-	-	-	-
H Petty #	2.418	21	2.392	1.09	19	-2
T McDonald #	2.344	22	1.939	20.89	26	4
Judd McVee	2.328	23	-	-	-	-
J V Rooyen #	2.293	24	-	-	-	-
B Fritsch	2.063	25	1.936	6.56	27	2
Ben Brown # <	2.033	26	1.759	15.58	29	3
C Spargo	2.003	27	1.981	1.11	24	-3
J Melksham >	1.437	28	1.947	-26.19	25	-3
B Laurie < *	1.300	29	-	-	-	-
D Turner *	1.075	30
Team Rating	71.82		68.89	4.25

* Played less than two full matches (in total) - player rating compromised

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed Out at least once or more

> Subbed In at least once or more

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

Edited May 14, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[DeeZone 10,135]

Thanks DD yes Riv is off the charts, Jordon, Hibbo, Sparrow and Pickett all on the rise and Tomlinson numbers are also good and McVee and JVR very respectable in their first year.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Champion Data's Top 10 players after round 8...

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/09/champion-datas-top-10-rated-players-in-the-afl-after-round-8/

[WheeloRatings 1,163]

Melbourne v Hawthorn

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_match_stats.html?ID=20230905

Note: first number below is Melbourne, higher value is bold.

Pressure

Q1: 210 - 188
Q2: 158 - 153
Q3: 183 - 194
Q4: 185 - 167
Tot: 184 - 175

Most Pressure Points

(Weighed sum of pressure acts. Physical pressure acts are worth 3.75 points, closing acts are worth 2.25 points, chasing acts are 1.5 points and corralling are 1.2. https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/) 

Sparrow: 70
Pickett: 65
Viney: 59
Neal-Bullen: 50
Petracca: 47
Oliver: 43
Grundy: 34
Chandler: 33
Lever: 30

Time in forward half

56% - 44%

Score sources

Centre bounce
0.1.1 - 1.0.6

Ball up
1.2.8 - 1.2.8

Throw in
2.3.15 - 1.0.6

Turnover
12.7.79 - 3.4.22

Kick-in
0.0.0 - 1.1.7

Shots at goal

Set position
9.5.59 - 5.2.32

General play
6.3.39 - 2.2.14

 

 

 

[WheeloRatings 1,163]

Melbourne v Port Adelaide

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_match_stats.html?ID=20231001

Note: first number below is Melbourne, higher value is bold.

Pressure

Q1: 182 - 203
Q2: 200 - 203
Q3: 189 - 198
Q4: 205 - 219
Tot: 194 - 205

Most Pressure Points

(Weighed sum of pressure acts. Physical pressure acts are worth 3.75 points, closing acts are worth 2.25 points, chasing acts are 1.5 points and corralling are 1.2. https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/) 

Oliver: 85
Petracca: 65
Viney: 63
Neal-Bullen: 55
Pickett: 50
Brayshaw: 49
Chandler: 40
Salem: 36
Rivers: 32
McVee: 32
Spargo: 31
McDonald: 30

Time in forward half

39% - 61%

Here are my calculations for time in forward half for each quarter, which were not too far off the figures Channel 7 put up on the screen during the third quarter.

Q1: 45% - 55%
Q2: 33% - 67%
Q3: 51% - 49%
Q4: 32% - 68%

Based on my calculations, the second and fourth quarters ranked as two of Melbourne's three worst quarters of the year for time in forward half:

31.6%, Q4 v Port Adelaide
31.8%, Q1 v Brisbane
32.7%, Q2 v Port Adelaide
34.4%, Q1 v West Coast
39.9%, Q1 v Essendon
40.4%, Q2 v Essendon

Score sources

Centre bounce
2.1.13 - 0.0.0

Ball up
0.1.1 - 3.4.22

Throw in
3.0.18 - 2.1.13

Turnover
6.8.44 - 6.8.44

Kick-in
0.0.0 - 0.1.1

Shots at goal

Set position
8.2.50 - 7.9.51

General play
3.5.23 - 4.4.28

Expected Scores

74 - 97

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Round 10, 2023 Adelaide Oval - Power vs Demons

Team rating a massive 25% off Season 2022.  The biggest drop off i have seen since doing this & comparing to prior season (since 2018/2019).

And an even worse 28% off this season's average Team Rating.  Now, either Port were that good or we were pretty bog ordinary for three quarters.  Possibly both?

The rating from Maxy...wowsers!

The two positives i'm taking from this match...

1.  The performance of May, which was approx 8% up on his 2021 & 2022 season average ratings.  Keeping in mind we have seen a fair amount of fluctuation in that rating over the last 5 weeks....

Rnd 6 vs Tigers 4.225  /   Rnd 7 vs Roos 3.400   /   Rnd 8 vs Suns 1.150   /   Rnd 9 vs Hawks 3.700 

Will need to see if he can back this up over a few weeks before we can say our champ is back to his very best.

2.  Salo's return... a pretty decent rating albeit still approx 19% off his best which i would classify as Season 2021 where he had an average rating of 3.926

Player	Rating	Rank
C Oliver	4.750	1
S May	4.300	2
C Petracca	3.800	3
T Rivers	3.325	4
C Salem	3.175	5
A Brayshaw	2.850	6
J Lever	2.850	6
L Hunter	2.800	8
K Chandler	2.550	9
M Hibberd	2.475	10
B Fritsch	2.300	11
B Grundy #	2.250	12
C Spargo	1.825	13
Ed Langdon	1.800	14
A N-Bullen	1.650	15
J McVee	1.525	16
J Bowey < 54%	1.425	17
J V Rooyen	1.400	18
T McDonald	1.400	18
Max Gawn #	1.000	20
J Viney	0.950	21
K Pickett	0.800	22
J Jordon > 25%	0.525	23
Team Rating	51.20
Top 6	22.20
Bottom 6	6.98

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed out / TOG %

> Subbed in / TOG %

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

Edited May 20, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[DeeZone 10,135]

Jeez DD that was horrific.!!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Jeez DD that was horrific.!!

Check that pressure rating from Port DZ.  Massive for this time of year i would suggest and over the four quarters.

For a third time interstate it would seem we came somewhat unprepared for the onslaught, among other issues that playing Port seemed to highlight of course.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Ratings to Rnd 10, 2023 vs H&A Season 2022

Player	2023 Rating	2023 Rank	2022 Rating	% Change vs 2022	2022 Rank	Change in Rank vs 2022
C Oliver	5.285	1	5.320	-0.66	1	0
C Petracca	4.728	2	4.456	6.10	2	0
T Rivers	3.901	3	2.423	61.00	18	15
A Brayshaw	3.773	4	3.839	-1.72	5	1
J Jordon >	3.632	5	3.164	14.79	9	4
Jack Viney	3.478	6	3.971	-12.42	3	-3
Steven May	3.250	7	3.971	-18.16	3	-4
A Tomlinson	3.233	8	2.079	55.51	22	14
C Salem *	3.175	9	3.363	-5.59	7	-2
L Hunter	3.105	10	-	-	-	-
T Sparrow	3.014	11	2.665	13.10	16	5
Jake Lever	2.983	12	2.703	10.36	14	2
M Hibberd	2.955	13	2.613	13.09	17	4
Jake Bowey	2.945	14	2.856	3.12	13	-1
Ed Langdon	2.910	15	3.109	-6.40	11	-4
B Grundy #	2.868	16	-	-	-	-
Max Gawn # <	2.775	17	3.215	-13.69	8	-9
K Pickett	2.709	18	2.118	27.90	21	3
J Harmes	2.671	19	3.082	-13.34	12	-7
Alex N-Bullen	2.650	20	2.688	-1.41	15	-5
K Chandler	2.515	21	-	-	-	-
H Petty #	2.418	22	2.392	1.09	19	-3
Judd McVee	2.248	23	-	-	-	-
J V Rooyen #	2.181	24	-	-	-	-
T McDonald #	2.155	25	1.939	11.14	26	1
B Fritsch	2.089	26	1.936	7.90	27	1
Ben Brown # <	2.033	27	1.759	15.58	29	2
C Spargo	1.975	28	1.981	-0.30	24	-4
J Melksham >	1.437	29	1.947	-26.19	25	-4
B Laurie < *	1.300	30	-	-	-	-
D Turner *	1.075	31	-	-	-	-
Team Rating	70.97		68.89	3.02

* Played less than two full matches (in total) - player rating compromised

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed Out at least once or more

> Subbed In at least once or more

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

[DeeZone 10,135]

15 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Check that pressure rating from Port DZ.  Massive for this time of year i would suggest and over the four quarters.

For a third time interstate it would seem we came somewhat unprepared for the onslaught, among other issues that playing Port seemed to highlight of course.

Looking at those stats DD they choked the life out of us, that must have been our poorest overall performance this year.!!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

5 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Looking at those stats DD they choked the life out of us, that must have been our poorest overall performance this year.!!

For me our worst performance so far (qualitative not quantitative) was against Brisvegas DZ.  Much of our claw back happening after the black out from memory.  Team rating from that was 60.15

So yes statistically the Port result of 51.2 wins by the length of the Flemington but then we only lost by 4 points so i'm not sure what to make of it all.

My guess is that Port are good but not that good.  We probably handed Port an assist by not bothering to try and cool at least one of their main play makers.  Surely we don't make the same mistake if we meet them again this season?

We also appear to be a bit Jekyll & Hyde so far this season.

Need to find some warrior/killer instinct vs the challengers & interstate matches.  Seem to be in cruise mode in some of these until things start looking ordinary (Jekyll & Hyde!).

Edited May 21, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Round 10, 2023 MCG - Blues vs Pies

Thought i'd take a look at the old enemy given they're sitting up top.

Probably doesn't mean much given the oppo but their Team Rating against the Blues was 15% lower than our average season Team Rating of 70.97!

Player	Rating	Rank
D Moore	6.700	1
Nick Daicos	4.550	2
J De Goey	4.525	3
J Noble	3.600	4
S Pendlebury	3.525	5
Josh Daicos	3.175	6
T Mitchell	3.075	7
B Mihocek	2.950	8
S Sidebottom	2.925	9
O Markov	2.800	10
Jack Crisp	2.475	11
I Quaynor	2.275	12
N Murphy	2.250	13
J Elliott	2.100	14
B McCreery	2.100	14
W H-Elliott	2.050	16
Bobby Hill	1.950	17
B Maynard	1.775	18
D Cameron # < 64%	1.675	19
Mason Cox #	1.325	20
A Johnson	1.225	21
T Adams	1.000	22
J Ginnivan > 17%	0.250	23
Team Rating	60.03
Top 6	26.08
Bottom 6	8.95

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed out / TOG %

> Subbed in / TOG %

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

Edited May 21, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[layzie 34,013]

Maybe the Pies aren't that good and it's just a case of everyone else stinking 🙂

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

7 hours ago, layzie said:

Maybe the Pies aren't that good and it's just a case of everyone else stinking 🙂

Haha one can only hope Mr L!

I highly doubt it but you never know.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/18/breretons-top-10-ruckmen-in-the-game-so-far-in-2023/

[layzie 34,013]

19 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/05/18/breretons-top-10-ruckmen-in-the-game-so-far-in-2023/

Wow.

I have English as All Australian ruckman right now and Derm has him 6th!

Will close the door behind me..

[Adam The God 30,420]

I was just looking through https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

GROUND BALL GETS

I'm very surprised to find us 4th for ground ball gets (97.3). That's much better than I gave us credit for. Although our game doesn't flow unless we win ground ball, I didn't realise we'd be well above the AFL average (93.0).

This stat will be a really interesting watch over the next 3 matches minus Clarry, as he is our leading GBG player and 3rd in the competition for GBGs. Luckily, Trac is equal 4th and ahead of Cripps and Serong as the only real threats in the next two weeks in this area. Freo are 18th for GBGs and Carlton are 14th. We're 4th for GBGs and Collingwood are 9th.

Collingwood however have 5 players in the top 40 GBG players in the league. Most of them are nowhere near the quality of Trac and Clarry in this area, but Clarry's absence in GBGs will definitely be felt against Collingwood.

COLLINGWOOD

Here are some other interesting stats given everyone seems to think they're the yard stick. 

* they are 1st for kick in play on percentage - 97.2%

* they're 18th for defensive 1v1s (we're 2nd)

Otherwise, we're either pretty much even or we lead them in more categories.

Essentially, if we come to play against them, our game is in better shape than theirs statistically. Given their draw has included Hawthorn, GWS, Richmond and less travel, they're really not very far ahead of us. They just happen to have won two extra games, having limped over the line twice.

At this point, Brisbane looked a completely different side when they play in Brisbane vs away. And Port similar. You could argue similar for us, except the GF is played on our home ground...

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,307]

9 hours ago, A F said:

I was just looking through https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html

GROUND BALL GETS

I'm very surprised to find us 4th for ground ball gets (97.3). That's much better than I gave us credit for. Although our game doesn't flow unless we win ground ball, I didn't realise we'd be well above the AFL average (93.0).

This stat will be a really interesting watch over the next 3 matches minus Clarry, as he is our leading GBG player and 3rd in the competition for GBGs. Luckily, Trac is equal 4th and ahead of Cripps and Serong as the only real threats in the next two weeks in this area. Freo are 18th for GBGs and Carlton are 14th. We're 4th for GBGs and Collingwood are 9th.

Collingwood however have 5 players in the top 40 GBG players in the league. Most of them are nowhere near the quality of Trac and Clarry in this area, but Clarry's absence in GBGs will definitely be felt against Collingwood.

COLLINGWOOD

Here are some other interesting stats given everyone seems to think they're the yard stick. 

* they are 1st for kick in play on percentage - 97.2%

* they're 18th for defensive 1v1s (we're 2nd)

Otherwise, we're either pretty much even or we lead them in more categories.

Essentially, if we come to play against them, our game is in better shape than theirs statistically. Given their draw has included Hawthorn, GWS, Richmond and less travel, they're really not very far ahead of us. They just happen to have won two extra games, having limped over the line twice.

At this point, Brisbane looked a completely different side when they play in Brisbane vs away. And Port similar. You could argue similar for us, except the GF is played on our home ground...

...following finals potentially played at theirs, of course (including Collingwood).

The above confirms top 2 highly desirable, top 4 essential.

(p.s. Thanks, all, for this thread)

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Round 11, 2023 Adelaide Oval - Demons vs Dockers

Team Rating 7% less than our average this season and 4% off our 2022 Season Rating.

Tracc way in front here with his second highest rating for the season.  His best against the Kangas with a 6.725

Very low ratings from Spargo, Chandler, McDonald & McVee.

Lever a massive 31% off his season average rating of 2.983

Rivers even worse.... 45% down on his season rating of 3.901

Turnover king was Gus with a massive 9 turnovers.

Player	Rating	Rank
C Petracca	5.925	1
Ed Langdon	4.325	2
A N-Bullen	4.200	3
T Sparrow	4.150	4
J Bowey	3.800	5
J Harmes	3.775	6
J Viney	3.500	7
A Brayshaw	3.475	8
M Gawn #	3.475	8
B Grundy #	3.300	10
S May	3.175	11
K Pickett	2.900	12
B Fritsch	2.675	13
M Hibberd	2.375	14
C Salem	2.275	15
J V Rooyen #	2.275	15
T Rivers	2.125	17
J Lever	2.050	18
C Spargo	1.675	19
K Chandler < 67%	1.575	20
T McDonald	1.450	21
J McVee	1.425	22
J Jordon > 22%	0.850	23
Team Rating	65.90
Top 6	26.18
Bottom 6	10.30

# Hit outs to advantage not counted

< Subbed out / TOG %

> Subbed in / TOG %

Stats courtesy of footwire.com

[DeeZone 10,135]

Thanks DD so many players fell right away today and the stats bare that out. Are we loading.?

We really missed Mr Oliver that is for sure, he is the equal of two players.!!

Edited May 27, 2023 by DeeZone
Mr Oliver

[Adam The God 30,420]

Posted this in the Post Game thread, but this is from the AFL ap breakdown of the game. 

"Narrm ultimately lost the match against Walyalup by failing to capitalise on their defensive-half scoring chain prowess. Narrm only managed to score 2.5 (17) from defensive-half scoring chains for the entire match, despite averaging 40.8 points per game in 2023 - ranked first in the league."

That's the game right there.

We need to use each other and the ball better on slingshot. Simple as that.