The application today was fantastic. Players will always have faults but if we continue to attack the ball the way we did today this season won't be as bad as we all thought.

Well said Gouga.......

And you are right the application was pretty good today, and was a vast improvement on other recent efforts.

Perfection doesn't actually exist and mistakes will unfortunately always be made, but endeavour is almost as crucial.

The skills do need improving though !!!

thought miller was good today, had an argument with some guy about how he kept blaming miller for losing out when the odds 2 on 1 on him

Disagree strongly on Miller .

Simply cant take an overhead mark. That dropped mark in the goal square in the 3rd was embarrassing to watch.

Loses heaps of 1 on 1's also.

Has slimmed down to the extent he looks puney compared to most defenders going around.

& is not skilled enough to play the most important position on the ground.

The sooner Dunne evolves the sooner we can say G'bye to Miller.

Who would you rather be playing at the moment, ben holland at chf? Granted Miller's skills aren't fantastic but i would have him rather than holland. Miller is an easy scape goat far too many times. He is working hard for the club at the moment. Has kicked goals the past couple when few others have stood up.

thoughts?

No wonder we ran the game out.

No AFL team has as pathetic a defensive work rate as we do.

Yes the players had a dip but I expect that every week. It's non-negotiable.

We were never going to win with our injuries. But our skill level, style of play and defensive work rate are absolutely deplorable at the moment.

I think 90% of the skill erros came from 20% of the players - and they are the ones who would not be playing if we had a semi-full side. I didn't have a big problem with our style of play per se, and in fact had we kicked straight early or been a bit luckier in the 3rd, I thought we were in a reasonable position to give the win a shot.

In terms of work ethic, I agree. We did not pressure their ball carriers nearly enough and they kept getting men free on the half back line. But it does hurt losing Trapper and Moloney before the game, having an underdone Dunn, Pickett and Sylvia, losing Bell for a fair whack of the game, and losing Wheels, Jones and others and having to have 3 talls on the ground. So in context, it's not so bad.

miller gets bagged preseason that he doesnt kick enough goals

kicks goals, is leading the clubs goal kicking (i know about the injurys, but he has taken his chances!!)

and gets bagged because of more Sh!t??

he is one of a few out there, busting his gut to get this football club to where it belongs, he mightnt have all the natural talent like other CHF's, but he has the heart, and is proud to pull on the red and blue...

miller gets bagged preseason that he doesnt kick enough goals

kicks goals, is leading the clubs goal kicking (i know about the injurys, but he has taken his chances!!)

and gets bagged because of more Sh!t??

he is one of a few out there, busting his gut to get this football club to where it belongs, he mightnt have all the natural talent like other CHF's, but he has the heart, and is proud to pull on the red and blue...

Agree. He is to brains what Brett Lovett is to pace. But he bleeds red and blue and is an eager learner and should be persevered with.

* Stop booing headland. He deserved to have a good game and i was embarrised to see melb supporters doing it - leave that for collingwood members.

What if I hate him? What if I think he's over-rated? What if I thought he carried on like a pork chop? What if I believe he absolutely SHOULDN'T have been playing?

Otherwise, pretty well on the mark...

For mine I thought the team tried its absolute guts out today, compared to other days. I won't go through positives with individual players, but I thought there were flashes of things like Bate's goal, Flash's goal and a couple of other passages (Brown's delivery I think) where the team seemed very pumped. Looked like a real team. There's only so much they could do on the day given drawbacks in coaching, fitness, injury and youth and I reckon many of them battled manfully. I was prouder of the guys today than I have been in weeks, despite some skill errors and decision mistakes.

I was prouder of the guys today than I have been in weeks, despite some skill errors and decision mistakes.

I'll second that

Nothing wrong with Yze's first half either.

Very average first Q largely ineffective but worked his way into the game during second Q, & then lifted with more intensity & tackling??? Wonders may never cease, & may i say that what he did today is exactly whats expected of him weekly. Yze, where have you been for the last 3 seasons, you've waisted your time for the last 3, possibly could have been the best years of your career & there gone never to be rectified...

What annoys me is how people are happy with our effort and application today. It's not that I'm upset that people say it, because it's true that our application was better than the other matches, it's just that it really shows where we are at.

A good side should always have that effort and application. Every side has their down games, but over the years it just happens too frequently for Melbourne. Effort and application are the non-negotiables of a good football team.

WCE, Adelaide and Sydney won't put in more than 2 or 3 shockers for the year. We always seem to have 6 or 7 games where we "don't turn up".

It's not good enough for where we should be at.

Positives, Yze played well, good to see Dunn, Pickett and Sylvia playing, all three underdone and will only get better with the run. Miller tried hard only wish he could hang on to more contested marks. Many times today he had clean contact with the footy but his hands are like rocks the ball bounces out. Once again our skills are below AFL standard, we can't hit targets by hand or footy, Yze should never handball, for such a skillful player he cant hit a target by hand.

Our skills are our biggest concern, injuries happen, but a lot of our players have don't have the skills to play at this level and it is experienced players with this problem.

What annoys me is how people are happy with our effort and application today. It's not that I'm upset that people say it, because it's true that our application was better than the other matches, it's just that it really shows where we are at.

A good side should always have that effort and application. Every side has their down games, but over the years it just happens too frequently for Melbourne. Effort and application are the non-negotiables of a good football team.

WCE, Adelaide and Sydney won't put in more than 2 or 3 shockers for the year. We always seem to have 6 or 7 games where we "don't turn up".

It's not good enough for where we should be at.

Absolutely agree Scoop, we can not afford to accept inept efforts @ this club anymore. We need to develope a harder culture @ melbourne, this near enough good enough stuff has been going on for years...

One big negative we are 0-4 and haven't seen one new player this year. We see the same recycled players week in week out and they may be good VFL players but they aren't up to AFL standards.

What annoys me is how people are happy with our effort and application today. It's not that I'm upset that people say it, because it's true that our application was better than the other matches, it's just that it really shows where we are at.

A good side should always have that effort and application. Every side has their down games, but over the years it just happens too frequently for Melbourne. Effort and application are the non-negotiables of a good football team.

WCE, Adelaide and Sydney won't put in more than 2 or 3 shockers for the year. We always seem to have 6 or 7 games where we "don't turn up".

It's not good enough for where we should be at.

Good post. As you say it shows where we are at. Today they gave their all, but that just makes the tripe they put out in round 1 in particular so much worse.

I thought 4 years ago we were supposed to get ruthless?

Absolutely agree Scoop, we can not afford to accept inept efforts @ this club anymore. We need to develope a harder culture @ melbourne, this near enough good enough stuff has been going on for years...

Today we had 19 fit players from quarter time, and they battled it out. I really don't know what else you can expect when you are 3 men down on the bench. Today's effort was far from inept, inept was the crowd of 16,000.

Agreed

I was happy with Miller's effort today and it was great to see him finally rewarded in the last with 3 goals, but I felt he also goes to ground to easily. He would get alot more ball if he kept his feet and made a second effort.

from where we were in the old red seats part of the ground Brad Miller was clearly our worst player by a long long way in the first 3 qtrs! He had no more than 3 possessions until last 20 min of the game and his 3 last qtr goals made up for total lack of effort and refusal to chase at all earlier in the game.

Dunny by comparison ran his guts out! Basic problem with Miller is he does not have the football smarts needed to KPP compared with Dunn so long term its a no brainer! His late take up of AFL is part of the reason and for not great kicking but no reason for his disinterested effort in 1st 3 qtrs today. Everyone in our area in despair. So no way he played well or gave an acceptable effort.

Yes, we did have a couple of positives which were ok, but the overall facts are that we got flogged and are now sitting at 0-4.

Firstly a comment by Tim Watson saying that Danners has to persist with Dunn. Really - when would that have been when he was missing with a fractured cheekbone?

Doesn't mean Watson was referring to the last couple of weeks. Dunn's been in and out of the team in the past, and I agree that he should be getting a gig basically every game this year.

I don't think it should. Dunn looks very comfortable playing FF, Miller worked his backside off at CHF, people should accept his limitations (no he's never going to be a Brown or Carey type CHF). He is a very honest footballer with a big heart and workrate.

I've been saying a similar thing for a while. Regardless of where Miller is written down on the team sheet, his primary role seems to be to provide a 'push up' leading target. If he works hard and can do that effectively, he's doing his job. Other guys - like Dunn - will be staying at home around the 50 to kick the bags. I'm not sure Miller is going to be a consistently good AFL player, but to require him to be a power forward or think he's wasting space out there seems a little silly. It's not like he's keeping out a plethora of guys who can perform at AFL level as key forwards...

What annoys me is how people are happy with our effort and application today. It's not that I'm upset that people say it, because it's true that our application was better than the other matches, it's just that it really shows where we are at.

A good side should always have that effort and application. Every side has their down games, but over the years it just happens too frequently for Melbourne. Effort and application are the non-negotiables of a good football team.

I see your point.

I also think that the fact we had 1/2 our best 22 out or sitting on the bench injured (resulting is us effectively playing the match short, YET AGAIN this year) needs to be taken into consideration.

Lynden Dunn's game was good i thought.

Frosty kicking 3 goals in a game............in a quarter!!!! Wow if he had bagged amother one in the 4th he would have equalled his total goals last year in only 1 quarter. Too bad they were all when the game was well and truly over.

Miller seems reluctant to kick for goal sometimes!!

He would much rather give it off to another player until the game is either out of our reach or we are in junk time.... I know he pushes up the ground (which is great) but even when he takes a grab around the F50 he just doesn't seem to trust his boot?!?!

Miller seems reluctant to kick for goal sometimes!!

He would much rather give it off to another player until the game is either out of our reach or we are in junk time.... I know he pushes up the ground (which is great) but even when he takes a grab around the F50 he just doesn't seem to trust his boot?!?!

His confidence and form have definitely increased this season, which can only be a good thing as both were well and truly shattered last season.

Both really needed to be re-built. And maybe the goal kicking reluctance will decrease as it improves.

But he has kicked more goals this season (of course with the current injuries this does mean that there is more opportunity, or pressure, for him to take the kick), and with Dunn behind him honestly I think the pairing could be a good and eventually regularly successful (six between them today) one.

Then again, maybe there is meant to be a player running past to receive the handball ?!!!

Miller seems reluctant to kick for goal sometimes!!

He would much rather give it off to another player until the game is either out of our reach or we are in junk time.... I know he pushes up the ground (which is great) but even when he takes a grab around the F50 he just doesn't seem to trust his boot?!?!

He's always seemed pretty reluctant to kick at all, let alone have a shot.

I think it was pre-season '06 when he was actually seemed to have some confidence with the boot, but then played in the backline and was in and out of the team.

I actually thought Miller's kicking was good yesterday, not just for goals, but his field kicking too.

For starters, he doesn't seem so keen to hand the ball off at every opportunity, and his delivery into the forward line is much improved.

His marking wasn't great, but a lot of that has to do with our players constantly kicking over his head, or kicking to him when he has 2 opponents on him.

BTW, he should have finished the game with 4 or 5. The umpires stupidly robbed him of 2 goals, one when they paid in the back, and one where they didn't.

Dunn, Davey, Green and Pickett all tried. The others did nothing.

the biggest positve for me? maybe im hopeless but last week id given up at half time. this week with 10 minutes left in the last quarter and 6 goals down i thought we were an outside chance if we could just snare a couple of quick ones.

we tried all day/ luck didnt go our way. we missed easy shots early that wouldve had us in the contest. when we fought hard for a goal freo would get the quick one. when we needed the umpires help from a push in the back it was ignored. we didnt deserve to win. but we played with endeavour and kept battling to the last. better than the last few weeks.

I've been away for a few weeks and have not had the chance to see Melbourne play since round 2.

I just have one question... PJ in defence?? Whaa?

Seems a real strange one to me. How did he go? And also where did he play last week against the cats?