OUT-COACHED

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

I've been watching footy for more than 50 years, and I've never seen a match where I'm more convinced that the coach's tactics meant the difference between the teams. Especially in point kick-ins, and defence of point kick-ins, but also in match-ups, and flooding and counter-acting the flood.

I've really appreciated how Neale has done his best for the Demons in the last 9 years. I now want a change as soon as possible.

[mikeod 21]

Jumping, I think thats the most ridiculous statement I've read on any of these sites, including when someone wanted Melbourne to pick up Nick Sautner.

To even suggest that it was tactics that had anything to do with todays loss is absolutely ridiculous.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

[quote name='mickrocks1'

Therein lies the problem.

[Gorgoroth 13,220]

not entirely so

they rn the ball from every kick in pretty much to their forward 50, most of the time without us even getting within 10ft of the player with the ball

where as our kick ins were slow and ineffectual, our players are already waiting for the ball before the player with it is ready and then there is no where for any one to lead.

[Pates 9,697]

  mickrocks1 said:

Jumping, I think thats the most ridiculous statement I've read on any of these sites, including when someone wanted Melbourne to pick up Nick Sautner.

We needed Nick Smith!

Will that do it?

Seriously though, i don't think it was Neal's doing today. It's a shame that he'll be judged on a year in which he really had no control over our downfall, but that's life. Tactics or not, had we had even half of the players missing today we would've won IMO.

[rumpole 539]

  mickrocks1 said:

Jumping, I think thats the most ridiculous statement I've read on any of these sites, including when someone wanted Melbourne to pick up Nick Sautner.

To even suggest that it was tactics that had anything to do with todays loss is absolutely ridiculous.

Perhaps it would be wise if you're going to attack someone for the statements he makes here, that you could provide some reasons why you think it's the most ridiculous statement.

As far as I'm concerned the club has had a bad trot with injuries this year but the lack of vision of the entire football department in the preparation of the team for this year including coaching and match day tactics and strategies have been pretty much abysmal. The club needs to do something about this because we're four weeks into the season and we don't have much hope for the next five months the way we're going.

A few examples - we look smaller than our opposition. Is this because we spent the pre season fining down so that we could be at peak fitness during the finals series we're not going to make? Why don't we have any big key position players coming through? Where are our ruck stocks to counter the ruckman of the 21st century? We have no ruckmen injured but Jamar gets a game week in week out and barely does a thing. PJ - can he run? Can he take a mark?

Where are our improvers?

Jumpring is right about the point kick ins too! Watch the replay tonight and consider the difference between the way the Dockers moved the ball out of defence compared to how we stumbled at it.

The coaching has a lot to do with what we've seen so far this year - don't kid yourself Mick.

[Yze_Magic 3]

What I wouldnt give for a Leigh Matthews or a John Worsfold

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

[quote name='mickrocks1'

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

[Choko 493]

  JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

[quote name='mickrocks1'

There is none so blind as he who will not see.

John Northey blind?

[Oxxx 0]

A coach is only as good as the players that he has on the field.

[astrodee 0]

Funnily enough, Jack, this is my 50th year of either playing or watching footy - and I totally agree with you. Injuries aside, coaching decided the extent of the loss. I don't know whether we could have have won it with different coaching, but we sure as hell would have finished a lot, lot closer. :angry:

[demonique 314]

  JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

I've been watching footy for more than 50 years, and I've never seen a match where I'm more convinced that the coach's tactics meant the difference between the teams. Especially in point kick-ins, and defence of point kick-ins, but also in match-ups, and flooding and counter-acting the flood.

I've really appreciated how Neale has done his best for the Demons in the last 9 years. I now want a change as soon as possible.

We have been out couched for a long time, we were a disgrace in the first match of the season, so unfit, we looked like we were at the end of a long hard season rather than a new season with all our hopes riding on them, well ,thats all been shot to hell, not surprised we have so many injuries, you tend to get more of those when when fitness levels are so poor.

We don't seem to get a coaching team that is thesame in consecutive seasons, no consistancy there...

Who was that coach that Geelong fired last year? is he with us?

[Rogue 585]

It was always going to be tough considering we already had injuries, brought in a few guys who haven't had much footy, and then had even more injuries (Bell, Wheatley, Jones) as the game went on.

[QueenC 74]

Yeah, I guess with only one left on the bench the rotation system (whatever it may be) would have been screwed to hell.

But a lot of the ball movement, in all quarters, still seemed to be stagnant at times.

I don't really know, and am not going to pretend to know, if these two are related though !!!

[QueenC 74]

  JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

I've been watching footy for more than 50 years, and I've never seen a match where I'm more convinced that the coach's tactics meant the difference between the teams. Especially in point kick-ins, and defence of point kick-ins, but also in match-ups, and flooding and counter-acting the flood.

I've really appreciated how Neale has done his best for the Demons in the last 9 years. I now want a change as soon as possible.

I posted this in a different thread but it does seem more appropriate here (sorry).......

This is a genuine question for those closer to the club and its internal workings than I am......

Does anyone actually believe that after 10 years without the ultimate success, a truly appalling start (injuries aside) to his last contracted year, a team that appears to be fairly unskilled and very unsure of themselves, and with what seems to be a very ineffective and reactive plan, that doesn't seem to suit he list that he built, that Daniher will be given any more time to get it right?

For the record, I completely and totally agree with those that say that he should be afforded the respect that anyone deserves after serving for such a long tenure in a very difficult role, through what has been some bloody awful times for a relatively difficult the club (including board upheaval, financial restriction etc), and for doing a genuinley fantastic job being a spokesman for, and spruiking of, the club.

But can the club really afford to give him any more time?

Now that there is a hell of a lot more stability at the other levels, is it possible that the club can afford to take a chance and make a change (which seems to be the popular choice) within the coaching department? While this probably was not something that they were afforded in previous years.

So back to the initial question, with all these factors in place does anyone think that Neale will have his contract extended again?

And if they do, why? I am interested in all opinions.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

  QueenC said:

So back to the initial question, with all these factors in place does anyone think that Neale will have his contract extended again?

No.

[Nasher 33,686]

Anyone else get sick of seeing "Neale was out-coached" week after week?

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other as to whether Neale is being "outcoached" or not, but gee these threads are getting repetitive.

QC, injuries or not, I imagine Neale's skating on incredibly thin ice right now. I reckon he's in trouble.

[demonfanjezza 1]

  Nasher said:

Anyone else get sick of seeing "Neale was out-coached" week after week?

YES

[Rampaging Demons 1]

was not out-coached!!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

  JUMPING JACK CLENNETT said:

I've been watching footy for more than 50 years, and I've never seen a match where I'm more convinced that the coach's tactics meant the difference between the teams.....

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Great stuff Jack nailed yourself in one.

[Guest dee'viator]

  Choko said:

John Northey blind?

YES! sacked by Brisbane. sacked by Richmond. sacked by Melbourne. Unhired since as a coach. Underperformed with the team he had development of.

[Guest dee'viator]

  Oxxx said:

A coach is only as good as the players that he has on the field.

Thats true 'Oxxx' but when the players have been underperforming, below their own abilities over a number of seasons then it's the coach who is at fault. Then the youngsters, are, don't get me started, they do the team things required mostly at Sandy then get promoted only to find that no one shepherds, blocks, smacks bodies & some don't takle &/or chase, every one wants to run forward of the ball to recieve a statistic & no-ones left to do the physical contact things!!!

[Guest dee'viator]

  Rampaging Demons said:

was not out-coached!!

thats just 'cause your used to seeing it happen so often you don't realise anymore .

[Guest dee'viator]

  QueenC said:

I posted this in a different thread but it does seem more appropriate here (sorry).......

This is a genuine question for those closer to the club and its internal workings than I am......

Does anyone actually believe that after 10 years without the ultimate success, a truly appalling start (injuries aside) to his last contracted year, a team that appears to be fairly unskilled and very unsure of themselves, and with what seems to be a very ineffective and reactive plan, that doesn't seem to suit he list that he built, that Daniher will be given any more time to get it right?

For the record, I completely and totally agree with those that say that he should be afforded the respect that anyone deserves after serving for such a long tenure in a very difficult role, through what has been some bloody awful times for a relatively difficult the club (including board upheaval, financial restriction etc), and for doing a genuinley fantastic job being a spokesman for, and spruiking of, the club.

But can the club really afford to give him any more time?

Now that there is a hell of a lot more stability at the other levels, is it possible that the club can afford to take a chance and make a change (which seems to be the popular choice) within the coaching department? While this probably was not something that they were afforded in previous years.

So back to the initial question, with all these factors in place does anyone think that Neale will have his contract extended again?

And if they do, why? I am interested in all opinions.

I really hope not! About 3 or 4 years ago i didn't think Neale would be a premiership coach but then we started playing a more accountable gameplan & we played far better, winning the respect of all. I became seduced by this together with the improved recruiting under Cra' Cam' & started getting excited of the possibilities. After a couple of years of closer scrutiny of our situation of development & players response to adversity & game style compared to other successfull teams, (our general softness at the contest & opponent) we're going nowhere fast & being caught up by the rest of the competition who are developing way quicker than us.

It's the coaches role to get lazy &/or soft attitudes out of the players & club culture & he's been asleep at the wheel...

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,825]

  Rhino Richards said:

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Great put-down, Rhino, but I think it wasn't very original.

As a constant longterm supporter of ND, this the first time I've ever criticised him, but , really, surely you must have noticed the difference in the situation between their kick-ins, and ours. Perhaps you were sitting at ground level , where it may not be so glaringly obvious.

Did you ever notice our guys running free in the centre line, and having to stop, because there was no-one to kick to? Compare that to their guys who'd invariably have a range of options in the forward line. It was clear to me, and you accuse me of being visually impaired.

I know it makes the hot blood rush to your Rhino's head when someone has an opinion different to yours, but I ask you to try to be open-minded, and look at the match rationally. If Tarrant had kicked straight, and Pavlich hadn't aimed at the right hand post, we'd have lost by a more realistic margin.