On 1/20/2022 at 9:45 PM, Diamond_Jim said:

BTW: Does anyone have a youtube link to the Adelaide game.

The best quarter I have ever seen played by a Melbourne player..

As immense as TJ was that game - after Maxy's third quarter in the prelim, I think we can (finally!!) stop saying this!

I’m obviously biased, but Travis was better than he’s been made out by many in here. While he didn’t live up to his potential, he was still one of our best players in that decade. His output could’ve been more consistent, though he was tagged every week as opposition coaches always recognized him as our most damaging player. He came equal 4th in the Brownlow in 2002 alongside Cousins and McLeod. His 2005 was brilliant. His 2006 was also good and was statistically his best season.

In 2005 and 2006 he lead the league for kicks, inside 50s and score assists, a feat no other Melbourne player has ever achieved (Trac came close!). He was the most damaging outside mid in the league alongside Dal Santo through the 2000s.
Travis was also a big game player, and was always amongst our best in every final we played in the 2000s.

He never became the superstar he could’ve been, but the revisionist view of his career being a bust or a waste is wrong. 

Anyhoo back on track, it’s a good list from the OP! Looking forward to the top 20.

2 hours ago, Wizard of Koz said:

I will take 2021 Bailey Fritsch over both.

I'd like to think otherwise but according to my father (deceased), Fanning had it over all of the greats ... he included Ablett senior in that list of 'nearly as goods'. But these assessments are always going to occur - to confuse us - particularly when talking of the past in comparison to the present. In my lifetime, Hardeman was deemed my best backman, ever, for example.

 

7 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd like to think otherwise but according to my father (deceased), Fanning had it over all of the greats ... he included Ablett senior in that list of 'nearly as goods'. But these assessments are always going to occur - to confuse us - particularly when talking of the past in comparison to the present. In my lifetime, Hardeman was deemed my best backman, ever, for example.

 

Dee 56 I have followed the Dees since 1958 and have no real disagreement that Gary Hardemann was a very good CHB but to say he was our best ever Backman ( despite the Team of the Century) is what I don't endorse. For the following two reasons :

1. Gary was undersized as a KPD and could be out marked by taller opponents

2. tended to make the ball his object   ( what footy is about and he was bloody good at obtaining it I admit) but he did give his opponent a chance (or a sniff ) to cause damage as they say. He did  also provide great drive for us and was a very good CHF later in his career.

A back man is there to mind his man so Gary might be the best footballer perhaps to play in defence in the last 50 years BUT David Neitz would be my best CHB ( probably our best KP player ever or since 1972, although he only played about 1/3 or 1/2 of his 300 plus games in defence before he excelled on the forward line for about 6/7 years. 

While we are on the topic David Schwartz would no doubt in my mind be the best KP player and forward and be in our top 3 players of all time  but for his heartbreaking injury run that I also believe probably cost us a premiership in say 1998 as he was never the same.

Also if we had Both Schwarta and Neiter today both fit as in 1994 I have no doubt that Neiter would be a KPD and Schwartz a KPF who with Gazza Jacko and Pike plus whiz and Charles might have got us over the line.

Our defence has been always our bugbear either not big/good enough or tough enough and physically strong as well.

Look at  our Glory days teams defence and also our 2021 model and we are as tough as any Melb team that has triumphed since WW11. It has helped of course by our midfielders and wingers and forwards being as hard as nails in any contest. So are our  smalls and in the 50/60's 95% ( maybe except for Jeff Tunbridge ) we were the toughest going around. ( Hawks and Lions  also had this trait) and Cats and Tigers were hardly soft either.

I also think that Doc Roet was a great CHB who only played about 70 games in the 60's but stood up in those games as a class and close defender of size and agility but was not around in 1972 of course.

Tassie (Bob) could still be our best FB but is too early for the Top 100 since 1972. 

 It's always hard judging players in different eras but champions are still champions even if they have not got  that or those premiership medal/s. We are blessed know with possibly this new generation that in 5 years time many will no doubt be elevated from our Top 20 to our Top 10 from 1972. It's a hard job then comparing we hope this group if we become a dynasty to our immortal glory  days heroes that very few of us were lucky enough to see only the last years or very small numbers of games excel in the Red and Blue. 

 

3 hours ago, Demon17 said:

I agree completely with your post, except for the last sentence. No-one burnt seems to infer its still ok to leak medical information, against the rules,  in this case as Travis hasn't suffered.

Next time someonewill/may be hurt. My experience was of an impeccable source telling me a secret regarding a senior Australian politician, leading to corruption, that would/will never come out until that person's passing. Done to impress me at the time. I just can't stand that sort of stuff.

It still diminishes Travis'  reputation to that of an underachiever and maybe we now know why,  when he could have been so much more.

Go Dees for Back - to - Back

Good debate Dee17.

16 minutes ago, 58er said:

Dee 56 I have followed the Dees since 1958 and have no real disagreement that Gary Hardemann was a very good CHB but to say he was our best ever Backman ( despite the Team of the Century) is what I don't endorse. For the following two reasons :

1. Gary was undersized as a KPD and could be out marked by taller opponents

2. tended to make the ball his object   ( what footy is about and he was bloody good at obtaining it I admit) but he did give his opponent a chance (or a sniff ) to cause damage as they say. He did  also provide great drive for us and was a very good CHF later in his career.

A back man is there to mind his man so Gary might be the best footballer perhaps to play in defence in the last 50 years BUT David Neitz would be my best CHB ( probably our best KP player ever or since 1972, although he only played about 1/3 or 1/2 of his 300 plus games in defence before he excelled on the forward line for about 6/7 years. 

While we are on the topic David Schwartz would no doubt in my mind be the best KP player and forward and be in our top 3 players of all time  but for his heartbreaking injury run that I also believe probably cost us a premiership in say 1998 as he was never the same.

Also if we had Both Schwarta and Neiter today both fit as in 1994 I have no doubt that Neiter would be a KPD and Schwartz a KPF who with Gazza Jacko and Pike plus whiz and Charles might have got us over the line.

Our defence has been always our bugbear either not big/good enough or tough enough and physically strong as well.

Look at  our Glory days teams defence and also our 2021 model and we are as tough as any Melb team that has triumphed since WW11. It has helped of course by our midfielders and wingers and forwards being as hard as nails in any contest. So are our  smalls and in the 50/60's 95% ( maybe except for Jeff Tunbridge ) we were the toughest going around. ( Hawks and Lions  also had this trait) and Cats and Tigers were hardly soft either.

I also think that Doc Roet was a great CHB who only played about 70 games in the 60's but stood up in those games as a class and close defender of size and agility but was not around in 1972 of course.

Tassie (Bob) could still be our best FB but is too early for the Top 100 since 1972. 

 It's always hard judging players in different eras but champions are still champions even if they have not got  that or those premiership medal/s. We are blessed know with possibly this new generation that in 5 years time many will no doubt be elevated from our Top 20 to our Top 10 from 1972. It's a hard job then comparing we hope this group if we become a dynasty to our immortal glory  days heroes that very few of us were lucky enough to see only the last years or very small numbers of games excel in the Red and Blue. 

 

You left out Paul Prymke from the 1994 side. Barring injury, he would have made a huge difference. Todd Viney raves about him.

Also Jako was gone by the time Wiz arrived.

6 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I'd like to think otherwise but according to my father (deceased), Fanning had it over all of the greats ... he included Ablett senior in that list of 'nearly as goods'. But these assessments are always going to occur - to confuse us - particularly when talking of the past in comparison to the present. In my lifetime, Hardeman was deemed my best backman, ever, for example.

Fanning was also a premiership player and won the league goalkicking 4 times ... of course, he is also remembered for kicking the league record amount of goals in a game (18) 

And for all of his career he played alongside another player who kicked a stack of goals - Norm Smith.  A couple of handy targets!

Fanning must have been some sort of player

As for Hardeman, what a player!  Footy was obviously a lot different back then and Hardeman would just mark the ball whenever it was in his vicinity.  And could he take a mark!  His ability to take a pack mark or flying high from behind to take a grab was a sight to behold

Long torps to CHF was his forte ... so he kicked it to either Parke or Dillon.  But a lot of key backmen back then were rebounding defender types.  Gary was a bit like Bruce Doull (without the real dash) Paul Roos is another decent comparison

A really well balanced footballer who also played a lot of State footy

I once had the honour of having a drink with a bloke by the name of Bobby Pratt in the sixties, who I think was working for South or Port Council then, amongst a few other blokes from South, luckily I was always a good listener.

He said himself that Freddy was the best he'd seen..

11 hours ago, mo64 said:

You left out Paul Prymke from the 1994 side. Barring injury, he would have made a huge difference. Todd Viney raves about him.

Also Jako was gone by the time Wiz arrived.

Very good reason I left out Paul Prymke I didn't see him play many games than and IMO he was not around a long time.

Not sure of Paul's games total but I don't think  played many and he was not that good. Did WJ have him in his top100? Don't think so.

Please enlighten me with facts if you have them on Paul Prymke.

On 1/20/2022 at 11:33 AM, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Loving the trip down memory lane, personally I would struggle to have Trapper and more so Col in the top 50, on talent top 20 but on career output, probably 50-75

Imagine if these two lived up to their full potential. Woulda been unstoppable. Trapper's burst out of the middle at times had me shook. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXzOWrHDILQ

 

 

On 1/24/2022 at 4:19 AM, 58er said:

Very good reason I left out Paul Prymke I didn't see him play many games than and IMO he was not around a long time.

Not sure of Paul's games total but I don't think  played many and he was not that good. Did WJ have him in his top100? Don't think so.

Please enlighten me with facts if you have them on Paul Prymke.

If you can't remember Paul Prymke, then I suggest you didn't follow the Dees from 1994-1996. Played 24 games in his debut season, came 3rd in the BnF in 1995, and retired in 1996 due to back issues.

Was a gun CHB, who's career was ruined by injury.