Training Ground?

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

There's only ever a handful of people who go to training, it's not exactly a big attraction.

The reason why hardly anyone goes to training is because of the location. Casey is an hour's drive down the Freeway for most supporters, and the Gosch's can be difficult for some also when taking into account traffic, parking and no toilets. Having a home base in the supporter's heartland would immediately remedy that, and I would argue we would be getting close to 80 - 100 supports coming along to each training session. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,784]

Looks like the Bulldogs have landed themselves another training facility in their heartland.   a-huge-opportunity-western-bulldogs-find-second-home

Because it is in their heartland they are able to harness local support and put a big emphasis on community benefit.  Placing ourselves in the MCG precint denies us the same persuasiveness with local greenies, coucils, other sports etc.

Hopefully Kate can work thru that for us.

[Deemania since 56 6,636]

On 4/14/2021 at 10:26 PM, Rusty Nails said:

I really don't understand the obsession the MFC has with having to be within cooee of the MCG.

As you have highlighted on many occasions OD, all avenues close by have either been taken (Westpac centre) and/or are not economically viable or likely in an access/ pre existing community space / public reserve sense.

The MCG precint will always be a pre-occupation. It need not be so, given that every team and their flea-ridden dogs occupy the MCG these days and co-tenancy is not only a problem, it is an old event shrouded in the sell-out of the MFC-MCC association years ago by those with the power of the pen.

Tradition has gone with the wind of cash so offered to the landlords.

Caulfied actually looks really good, to me, part of a massive sport, entertainment and recreational undertaking that again places the precinct of Greater Melbourne at the top of the world stage and by golly, it is accessible and sustainable in attendance, and financial senses. A new Mecca is being planned in which it would be terrific for the MFC to be closely associated.

 

 

 

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, Caligula's cohort said:

The reason why hardly anyone goes to training is because of the location. Casey is an hour's drive down the Freeway for most supporters, and the Gosch's can be difficult for some also when taking into account traffic, parking and no toilets. Having a home base in the supporter's heartland would immediately remedy that, and I would argue we would be getting close to 80 - 100 supports coming along to each training session. 

It's not just just the Dees that don't have huge crowds at training every week though.

Also, hardly think Glen Iris is a much easier location to get to than Gosch's, which is right next to where we play, and near a bunch of public transport.

Let's say you're right though, and we move to Glen Iris and magically attract 80 hardcore MFC supporters to every session (once COVID regulations allow actual open sessions of course), how exactly does that benefit us? The people that go to training are rusted on fans, will they now up their membership to start going door to door to find fans for us now that training is closer to home? (Assuming they're a 'statistically central population' member).

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

4 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Looks like the Bulldogs have landed themselves another training facility in their heartland.   a-huge-opportunity-western-bulldogs-find-second-home

Because it is in their heartland they are able to harness local support and put a big emphasis on community benefit.  Placing ourselves in the MCG precint denies us the same persuasiveness with local greenies, coucils, other sports etc.

Hopefully Kate can work thru that for us.

Didn't we get local support when we improved the facilities at Casey...?

Does that make it our heartland?

[old dee 23,790]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Didn't we get local support when we improved the facilities at Casey...?

Does that make it our heartland?

Yep and right now the only available space. I am happy with Casey lets get over this MCG crap before we are all in the ground.

[Lucifers Hero 39,784]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Didn't we get local support when we improved the facilities at Casey...?

Does that make it our heartland?

That doesn't help our cause for land/facilities in the MCG precinct where we don't have a supporter base or local clubs/residents that will lobby for us or lobby against the objectors. 

All other clubs do have that local fan and community support which is why they keep getting all sorts of government funding to improve/extend facilities and we are still talking about it and 'homeless'.

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

It's not just just the Dees that don't have huge crowds at training every week though.

Also, hardly think Glen Iris is a much easier location to get to than Gosch's, which is right next to where we play, and near a bunch of public transport.

Let's say you're right though, and we move to Glen Iris and magically attract 80 hardcore MFC supporters to every session (once COVID regulations allow actual open sessions of course), how exactly does that benefit us? The people that go to training are rusted on fans, will they now up their membership to start going door to door to find fans for us now that training is closer to home? (Assuming they're a 'statistically central population' member).

 

An on site cafe and social club would help for starters with increased revenue. They can put on footy clinics for our "young red legs" to encourage new supporters like they used to when i was a little nipper going to junction oval. Then you have community events/functions at our social club and all of a sudden you have an abundance of new supporters with families coming together and we literally become the new "family club" as what Hawthorn refer to themselves as. I realise we are not the "Glen Iris Demons" but I don't necessarily think we need to have a home base in the city as the MCG always was and always will be our home ground. 

[chookrat 4,250]

29 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Genuine question, why does it matter where our 'support base' is statistically geographically located or where the 'population' centre is? There's only ever a handful of people who go to training, it's not exactly a big attraction. You don't all of a sudden start getting fans because of where your home base is, just ask GWS and GC. Winning does that.

We have the family day at Yarra Park, a social club is a terrible idea, I don't really understand the preoccupation with making our training base a good location for supporters? Way more important that it's a good location for attracting players and staff I would think.

Agree wholeheartedly with this Lord Nev. I will add that the MCG precinct is important to our clubs identity and being visible and in proximity to the MCG and Melbourne.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

6 minutes ago, Caligula's cohort said:

An on site cafe and social club would help for starters with increased revenue. They can put on footy clinics for our "young red legs" to encourage new supporters like they used to when i was a little nipper going to junction oval. Then you have community events/functions at our social club and all of a sudden you have an abundance of new supporters with families coming together and we literally become the new "family club" as what Hawthorn refer to themselves as. I realise we are not the "Glen Iris Demons" but I don't necessarily think we need to have a home base in the city as the MCG always was and always will be our home ground. 

An "on site cafe and social club" that gets used, what, cafe: a couple of times a week for a handful of people, social club: maybe 15 times a year... Sorry mate, they're not 'revenue raisers'. Not sure if you're up on the hospitality industry currently, but a footy club with one of the lowest supporter bases deciding to enter that arena is a horrible decision.

Footy clinics are pretty much always at schools aren't they? Let's say we run some, once we get through the few hyper-local schools who is going to pay for the buses to bring kids out?

Sorry mate, I just don't think your logic flies.

Training base = supporters, social club = supporters, it's just not reality.

I agree we don't have to be based in the MCG precinct, but spending millions building a training base somewhere so that a few supporters can come to training is just not a reasoning I'm onboard with.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Lord Nev

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

That doesn't help our cause for land/facilities in the MCG precinct where we don't have a supporter base or local clubs/residents that will lobby for us or lobby against the objectors. 

All other clubs do have that local fan and community support which is why they keep getting all sorts of government funding to improve/extend facilities and we are still talking about it and 'homeless'.

We got government funding though, that's my point. We got it out at Casey.

[Lucifers Hero 39,784]

Just now, Lord Nev said:

We got government funding though, that's my point. We got it out at Casey.

I know that.  My point was we don't have any local leverage for the MCG Precinct.. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

6 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Agree wholeheartedly with this Lord Nev. I will add that the MCG precinct is important to our clubs identity and being visible and in proximity to the MCG and Melbourne.

I don't think we have to be close to the G, I'm open minded about where we go, I just don't get this reasoning that if we plonk ourselves in a statistically highly populate area then all of a sudden we get fans. I mean, it's literally what was done with GWS and GC, and they were in 'footy fresh' areas where AFL wasn't already dominant.

Richmond has a higher population than Glen Iris... Hasn't helped grow our supporter base though. Can't see a Glen Iris local saying "Well, I've barracked for Essendon all my life, so did my Dad and his Dad, but geez, now that the Dees have started training twice a week a few streets across I think I'll switch and buy the whole family memberships!".

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I know that.  My point was we don't have any local leverage for the MCG Precinct.. 

I agree mate! My original question may have come across as facetious, but I meant it, is Casey already our heartland and we refuse to admit it?

[Its Time for Another 4,217]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I don't think we have to be close to the G, I'm open minded about where we go, I just don't get this reasoning that if we plonk ourselves in a statistically highly populate area then all of a sudden we get fans. I mean, it's literally what was done with GWS and GC, and they were in 'footy fresh' areas where AFL wasn't already dominant.

Richmond has a higher population than Glen Iris... Hasn't helped grow our supporter base though. Can't see a Glen Iris local saying "Well, I've barracked for Essendon all my life, so did my Dad and his Dad, but geez, now that the Dees have started training twice a week a few streets across I think I'll switch and buy the whole family memberships!".

It would be pretty sensational to get off at Richmond station and drop in to an MFC base around Gosch's for maybe lunch or a drink. Chat with other MFC supporters. The Club could make sure someone from the FD or a couple of injured players were available every week to give a breakdown for the game coming up. Have a look around the 12 Premiership Cups and other Club memorabilia. Maybe an MFC museum. Go over to the game had home via the club facility fpr a post game club event. etc. Doesn't sound too shabby to me. Bit better than trying to do that in Glen Iris. On the other hand smarter more experienced people than me have to know the economics of how many people would use a facility like that. The Swans had one in the Cross. The President Richard Colless sunk millions of his own money into it. It was a very modern facility but was an absolute bust. They all did their dow. So you have to know how to make money from it. Perty already has that experience with the Pies facility at Olympic Park. I dont know what the answer is. 

[Its Time for Another 4,217]

7 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I agree mate! My original question may have come across as facetious, but I meant it, is Casey already our heartland and we refuse to admit it?

Easy enough question to answer. Just have a look at how many memberships we have from there. I'm guessing it's a very small amount. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,784]

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I don't think we have to be close to the G, I'm open minded about where we go, I just don't get this reasoning that if we plonk ourselves in a statistically highly populate area then all of a sudden we get fans. I mean, it's literally what was done with GWS and GC, and they were in 'footy fresh' areas where AFL wasn't already dominant.

Richmond has a higher population than Glen Iris... Hasn't helped grow our supporter base though. Can't see a Glen Iris local saying "Well, I've barracked for Essendon all my life, so did my Dad and his Dad, but geez, now that the Dees have started training twice a week a few streets across I think I'll switch and buy the whole family memberships!".

I agree with you but Bartlett pushed the MCG precint very strongly in just about every interview where the question was asked.. I don't think there is a logic in being close to the G. 

I wasn't suggesting we will get fans if we are close to the G.  My point was it is easier to get/upgrade facilities if the local community is on board.  We don't have such a local community around the G so it has been and will continue to be harder to get an MCG Precinct facility happening.

Maybe Kate will soften on the MCG precinct view.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, It's Time said:

It would be pretty sensational to get off at Richmond station and drop in to an MFC base around Gosch's for maybe lunch or a drink. Chat with other MFC supporters. The Club could make sure someone from the FD or a couple of injured players were available every week to give a breakdown for the game coming up. Have a look around the 12 Premiership Cups and other Club memorabilia. Maybe an MFC museum. Go over to the game had home via the club facility fpr a post game club event. etc. Doesn't sound too shabby to me. Bit better than trying to do that in Glen Iris. On the other hand smarter more experienced people than me have to know the economics of how many people would use a facility like that. The Swans had one in the Cross. The President Richard Colless sunk millions of his own money into it. It was a very modern facility but was an absolute bust. They all did their dow. So you have to know how to make money from it. Perty already has that experience with the Pies facility at Olympic Park. I dont know what the answer is. 

IMO, especially in the current climate, we are FAR better off looking to partner with a hospitality provider where there's a bit of leverage both ways but neither takes a big risk, than have a footy club with a famously low number of supporters trying to run a business that isn't core to what they do and has minimal opportunities to trade.

Single owner/owner operator hospitality venues are fast becoming a thing of the past as well.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

3 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Easy enough question to answer. Just have a look at how many memberships we have from there. I'm guessing it's a very small amount. 

Would be interesting to see our geographical membership data, but even then, that doesn't mean that's where our opportunities for growth are, or even that geographical data is relevant.

My point is that we seem to be bemoaning the lack of government/community support for building a base, yet we received 7.5mil out of the 8mil we spent on Casey from those exact areas. (The other 500k was from the AFL).

[Its Time for Another 4,217]

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

IMO, especially in the current climate, we are FAR better off looking to partner with a hospitality provider where there's a bit of leverage both ways but neither takes a big risk, than have a footy club with a famously low number of supporters trying to run a business that isn't core to what they do and has minimal opportunities to trade.

Single owner/owner operator hospitality venues are fast becoming a thing of the past as well.

I don't know enough to comment. Leighoak with Pokies was bringing in $1.5mill a year. It will be interesting to see what revenue source they come up with to replace it. Especially now that all the capital from the venue has been used up in the past 2 years to pay off debt.  

[Adam The God 30,249]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

fwiw, max in a recent interview talked about what a difference training at casey over gosch's has made to setting up defensive structures

the players previously 'felt' that they were set up okay based on their defensive set-up and patterns with regards to the way they would set up at gosch's and the space they would have to defend

it was only once they went out to casey and a 'full size' ground akin to the mcg that they realised how much space they were leaving open with their previous set-ups

One of my mates is a Casey coach. He has huge wraps on our AFL boys, which is saying something as he's a massive Collingwood man. He says the facilities at Casey compare to what he's seen of the EPL clubs and their training facilities. Huge wraps.

He also thinks we'll beat Richmond. Says we're playing exactly how we're training at the moment. 

[old dee 23,790]

40 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I know that.  My point was we don't have any local leverage for the MCG Precinct.. 

And never will IMO. Unless the Storm or Collingwood move out of the Olympic Park area  we are up against it. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by old dee

[old dee 23,790]

14 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I agree with you but Bartlett pushed the MCG precint very strongly in just about every interview where the question was asked.. I don't think there is a logic in being close to the G. 

I wasn't suggesting we will get fans if we are close to the G.  My point was it is easier to get/upgrade facilities if the local community is on board.  We don't have such a local community around the G so it has been and will continue to be harder to get an MCG Precinct facility happening.

Maybe Kate will soften on the MCG precinct view.

Spot on LH, we must Remember  that Kate has been on the board for some time and seems to in with the near G plans. Not sure her getting the top job will make any difference unless she has been hiding her real ideas for some time. 

[old dee 23,790]

18 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Easy enough question to answer. Just have a look at how many memberships we have from there. I'm guessing it's a very small amount. 

The major thing that increases memberships is winning games pure and simple. Keep winning this year and they will grow in Casey and elsewhere. Why does low member numbers in Casey cancel it out as a training base?

[bush demon 2,040]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Looks like the Bulldogs have landed themselves another training facility in their heartland.   a-huge-opportunity-western-bulldogs-find-second-home

Because it is in their heartland they are able to harness local support and put a big emphasis on community benefit.  Placing ourselves in the MCG precint denies us the same persuasiveness with local greenies, coucils, other sports etc.

Hopefully Kate can work thru that for us.

Why is every Tory supporter of this admittedly posh club denigrating 'greenies'? Haven't you ever heard of the green green grass of home.