Aus Bush Fires

[A Bit Of Biff 20]

To any Demonlanders caught in these horrific bush fires.

My thoughts and prayers are with you, I hope you all come out of it safe and sound.

A house can be rebuilt, a life can't

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

How many are deliberately lit?   Most of them I would bet

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

How many are deliberately lit?   Most of them I would bet

Most of them in the bush by lightning strikes, apparently.

[A Bit Of Biff 20]

It seems only 1 was a deliberate, the rest are dry lighting strikes.

[hardtack 10,434]

I have friends who lost their house in Malacoota, and my two brothers and sister who all have houses in the Bermagui area, have had to evacuate to Canberra. 

[bing181 9,128]

11 hours ago, A Bit Of Biff said:

It seems only 1 was a deliberate, the rest are dry lighting strikes.

Also some from power cables down.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

On 1/4/2020 at 1:12 AM, hardtack said:

I have friends who lost their house in Malacoota, and my two brothers and sister who all have houses in the Bermagui area, have had to evacuate to Canberra. 

Best wishes to your friends and family hardtack.

[Macca 16,688]

Perhaps the real answer to the ongoing bushfire issue lies elsewhere ... of course,  that won't satisfy the rusted on types from all the sides of politics (the right,  the left,  the Greens etc)  They just want their team to somehow win a non-winnable argument. 

Historical Role of Fire (in Australia)

Bill Gammage:  Prevent Bushfire the Aboriginal Way

Long before the Anzac legend, our national character was forged in the flames of the bush

 

So,  can we turn the clock back?  Probably not in the current political environment but down the track a more common sense and logical answer will be looked at.  But don't hold your breath because we are decades away from going back to the ancient ways. 

In the meantime,  the bushfire crises will go in indefinitely.  We are a land of long droughts,  fire & floods and low rainfall ... and the original inhabitants had that knowledge thousands of years ago. 

So they acted accordingly.

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Perhaps the real answer to the ongoing bushfire issue lies elsewhere ... of course,  that won't satisfy the rusted on types from all the sides of politics (the right,  the left,  the Greens etc)  They just want their team to somehow win a non-winnable argument. 

Historical Role of Fire (in Australia)

Bill Gammage:  Prevent Bushfire the Aboriginal Way

Long before the Anzac legend, our national character was forged in the flames of the bush

 

So,  can we turn the clock back?  Probably not in the current political environment but down the track a more common sense and logical answer will be looked at.  But don't hold your breath because we are decades away from going back to the ancient ways. 

In the meantime,  the bushfire crises will go in indefinitely.  We are a land of long droughts,  fire & floods and low rainfall ... and the original inhabitants had that knowledge thousands of years ago. 

So they acted accordingly.

 

Bushfires have been happening for millions of years.  Circle of life and all that.

Seeing it being politicized so heavily is beyond disgusting.

[Macca 16,688]

1 hour ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

Bushfires have been happening for millions of years.  Circle of life and all that.

Seeing it being politicized so heavily is beyond disgusting.

I've always been into 'Whatever Works' but to go back to the Ancient ways with regards to the managing of the land is not going to happen in a hurry so in the meantime,  we can only put in as many preventative measures as possible and as many resources as possible.

I am a supporter of as much clean energy as possible but we could have clean energy worldwide in a 100% way (which, again, is highly unlikely) and the bushfires would rage on indefinitely anyway.  Unless there was less bush.  A lot less.

You fly from Melbourne to Sydney and look out the window and all you will see is thousands of square kilometers of thick bush with millions of trees.  Dry and hot conditions with a lightning strike and it can always go up in smoke.  Anytime from Sept through to April (depending on particular areas) ... but December though to February,  it's a tinderbox.

I once climbed Mt Kosciuszko and had a look out over Victoria & Southern NSW ... total thick bush for as long as the eye could see. 

And I'm not advocating the clearing of a large part of the bush either ... where would you stop?  But that is what it is almost certainly needed.  Do what the people native to this Country did.

But as previously stated,  as good as I think that above solution might be,  it isn't a feasible answer in the current political climate.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Macca

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

2 hours ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

Bushfires have been happening for millions of years.  Circle of life and all that.

That's true enough, but not like this they haven't. Those of us from the bush haven't seen fires this widespread in our lifetimes. Bushfires are a part of life, and something we plan for each summer. We've had plenty of bad fire seasons before. But without wanting to sound melodramatic, the scale of these fires truly is unprecedented.

Much of the Australian bush and fires go hand in hand, but areas of temperate rainforest that simply aren't meant to burn are currently being torched. These areas have been unaffected by fire for quite literally millions of years - in terms of both natural and human-caused fires. These ecosystems simply do not evolve in the presence of fire. This is not normal.

Sadly, the fact that the debate quickly turns political is only natural when people are angry and looking for someone to blame. But managing fires and fuel loads is far more complicated than most people realize. It's easy to point the finger at a lack of planned burning, but in reality, this isn't the silver bullet that some people make it out to be. Under some circumstances, planned burns can actually lead to thick re-growth and make the situation worse. Further, burning is only possible when conditions are just right - it's simply been too dry to burn safely in many areas. 

Fingers crossed for rain!!!

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

This parasite should be charged with domestic terrorism

https://7news.com.au/news/sa/south-australian-man-charged-with-starting-kingston-bushfires-c-633361

 

Euroa , VIC is on fire currently too,  rumour  that is was also deliberately lit.

Edited January 5, 2020 by JakovichScissorKick

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

5 minutes ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

This parasite should be charged with domestic terrorism

No argument from me. 

But blaming arsonists (who should be locked up for life IMO) is missing the point. Most of the current fires started from lightning, but yes, a small percentage were deliberately lit. But we've always had arsonists lighting bushfires. It's not new.

Fires are always going to start, no matter what. Whether its arson, lightning, farm machinery or power lines. Each summer, hundreds of fires will start. It's inevitable. Usually, you won't see them on the news though, because they can be quickly contained before they spread.

Right now, containing fires is virtually impossible. 

[dieter 3,325]

2 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

That's true enough, but not like this they haven't. Those of us from the bush haven't seen fires this widespread in our lifetimes. Bushfires are a part of life, and something we plan for each summer. We've had plenty of bad fire seasons before. But without wanting to sound melodramatic, the scale of these fires truly is unprecedented.

Much of the Australian bush and fires go hand in hand, but areas of temperate rainforest that simply aren't meant to burn are currently being torched. These areas have been unaffected by fire for quite literally millions of years - in terms of both natural and human-caused fires. These ecosystems simply do not evolve in the presence of fire. This is not normal.

Sadly, the fact that the debate quickly turns political is only natural when people are angry and looking for someone to blame. But managing fires and fuel loads is far more complicated than most people realize. It's easy to point the finger at a lack of planned burning, but in reality, this isn't the silver bullet that some people make it out to be. Under some circumstances, planned burns can actually lead to thick re-growth and make the situation worse. Further, burning is only possible when conditions are just right - it's simply been too dry to burn safely in many areas. 

Fingers crossed for rain!!!

This is priceless wisdom. You have skirted any 'political' digs yet you have nailed the crux of what's at issue here: namely that in our history the scale and unseasonality of the fires is unprecedented. I have travelled and spent much time in all of the areas affected - apart from the fires in the South east of WA - and just about every name which comes up brings back a personal connection, right down to the fires in the back blocks of Corryong, or the fire between Portland and Nelson. Binna Burra, Beechmont, Peregian, Guyra, the fires around Laurieton, Cudlee Creek, Woodside, Mallacoota where I spent a 1980 honeymoon in the adjoining Croajingolong Park, Cobungra, all places I have been to and or stayed at. More than many people I understand the significance of these dreadful events, events made more puzzling and significant simply because they have and are occurring not only on an unprecedented scale - yes, I am aware of the '39,  1897 and other catastrophes - but at a time of year not imagined possible before.

I can't help but add that there are and were scientists who forecast the scale of this catastrophe thirty years ago - a catastrophe which is quite probably ( heaven forbid) in its infancy as we speak.

God help us all, is all I can say, because the politicians we've voted for are doing sweet  fungoolie all about it and the so-called man in charge has re-defined the Peter Principal..

[Wrecker45 3,378]

3 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

That's true enough, but not like this they haven't. Those of us from the bush haven't seen fires this widespread in our lifetimes. Bushfires are a part of life, and something we plan for each summer. We've had plenty of bad fire seasons before. But without wanting to sound melodramatic, the scale of these fires truly is unprecedented.

Much of the Australian bush and fires go hand in hand, but areas of temperate rainforest that simply aren't meant to burn are currently being torched. These areas have been unaffected by fire for quite literally millions of years - in terms of both natural and human-caused fires. These ecosystems simply do not evolve in the presence of fire. This is not normal.

Sadly, the fact that the debate quickly turns political is only natural when people are angry and looking for someone to blame. But managing fires and fuel loads is far more complicated than most people realize. It's easy to point the finger at a lack of planned burning, but in reality, this isn't the silver bullet that some people make it out to be. Under some circumstances, planned burns can actually lead to thick re-growth and make the situation worse. Further, burning is only possible when conditions are just right - it's simply been too dry to burn safely in many areas. 

Fingers crossed for rain!!!

Which areas in Australia have not been affected  by bush fires in millions of years?

The Great Barrier Reef maybe.

[Wrecker45 3,378]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

This is priceless wisdom. You have skirted any 'political' digs yet you have nailed the crux of what's at issue here: namely that in our history the scale and unseasonality of the fires is unprecedented. I have travelled and spent much time in all of the areas affected - apart from the fires in the South east of WA - and just about every name which comes up brings back a personal connection, right down to the fires in the back blocks of Corryong, or the fire between Portland and Nelson. Binna Burra, Beechmont, Peregian, Guyra, the fires around Laurieton, Cudlee Creek, Woodside, Mallacoota where I spent a 1980 honeymoon in the adjoining Croajingolong Park, Cobungra, all places I have been to and or stayed at. More than many people I understand the significance of these dreadful events, events made more puzzling and significant simply because they have and are occurring not only on an unprecedented scale - yes, I am aware of the '39,  1897 and other catastrophes - but at a time of year not imagined possible before.

I can't help but add that there are and were scientists who forecast the scale of this catastrophe thirty years ago - a catastrophe which is quite probably ( heaven forbid) in its infancy as we speak.

God help us all, is all I can say, because the politicians we've voted for are doing sweet  fungoolie all about it and the so-called man in charge has re-defined the Peter Principal..

I don’t want to politicise this but you acknowledge similar fires before and then later say it is unprecedented.

Then you say it’s unprecedented at this time of the year. We’re in the middle of summer.

 

[hardtack 10,434]

19 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Best wishes to your friends and family hardtack.

Thanks mate.

[dieter 3,325]

11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I don’t want to politicise this but you acknowledge similar fires before and then later say it is unprecedented.

Then you say it’s unprecedented at this time of the year. We’re in the middle of summer.

 

Wrecker, we're not in the middle of summer. We are in the 5th week of a 12 week season. All of the previous major fires started in late January through to early March. This round of fires started in September. That's why I use the term unprecedented. Pat Mcnamara, former National Party leader in Victoria acknowledged the same fact on the radio 16 minutes ago. I'm not the only one. All of the Fire Authority big knobs in NSW were desperately trying to send the same message to the Federal Government as early as April last year.

To ignore the Fire Authorities, as the Federal Government and the NSW Premier did, is  not politics, man, that's putting your head in the sand and saying, I don't want to hear you. Some would even call it total incompetence. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by dieter

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

11 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Which areas in Australia have not been affected  by bush fires in millions of years?

The Great Barrier Reef maybe.

For the most part, you're right - the vast majority of the Australian landscape has evolved with fire. The vegetation (namely eucalypts and acacias) has adapted to cope with droughts, floods and frequent fires. But not everywhere. Substantial areas of rainforest (particularly along the Great Divide in northern NSW and QLD, as well as SW Tasmania) have not. Rainforests don't spring up overnight - millions of years is not hyperbole. If and when they burn, they are out competed by plants that are adapted to fire. And yes, we are seeing fires push into these areas.

Please don't misunderstand me - I'm certainly not some tree-hugging greenie crying over trees while family and friends are worried about losing their homes. But if that's not evidence that we're in an unusual bushfire season, then I don't know what is.

 

12 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Then you say it’s unprecedented at this time of the year. We’re in the middle of summer.

Nah, we're not. It's certainly earlier than usual. The bush (at least most areas in NE Vic and Gippsland) is usually still fairly damp through December. Most of our major bushfires have historically been largely restricted to a single, 'perfect storm' catastrophic day.

Black Friday: Jan 13th. 

Black Tuesday (Hobart): Feb 7th.

Ash Wednesday: Feb 16th.

Black Saturday: Feb 7th.

Like I said, fires are far more complicated than most people think, and I'm not certainly not pointing the finger at anyone or any one factor. The word 'unprecedented' gets thrown around a lot to the point that it's virtually lost its meaning, but I think it fits here.

 

[bing181 9,128]

Really hard to see how referring to the science is "politicising" the discussion.

[bing181 9,128]

9 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Black Friday: Jan 13th. 

Black Tuesday (Hobart): Feb 7th.

Ash Wednesday: Feb 16th.

Black Saturday: Feb 7th.

If you add the current fires to that sequence, regardless of anything else, it shows that these extreme fire events are becoming more frequent.

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

If you add the current fires to that sequence, regardless of anything else, it shows that these extreme fire events are becoming more frequent.

Let's just say, Mr Bing, it's kind of difficult to get past the politically correct censors in order to state the bleeding obvious because there will always be, unfortunately, members of the community who insist that one cannot politicize an issue which for most of the world is a scientific fact of life, namely that there is climate change, that Australia is an ostrich with most of its torso buried in the inferno, that squawking excuses and sliding away from responsibility and believing in miracles is not a solution. This topic is simply way too important to simply be censored for so-called political content: many of us have children and grandkids, they will pillory and hate us justifiably for simply doing and saying nothing. We must act, when will the warning bells become more urgent? Evil things happen when good people do nothing. We are in the midst of that crisis. What more evidence do you want? How many more hectares,  how many more rainforests do you want to turn into embers? 

[Jara 1,153]

The CFA are in no doubt as to the real driver behind our worsening bushfire conditions: climate change.

 

https://news.cfa.vic.gov.au/-/climate-linked-to-earlier-longer-fire-seasons-cfa-and-bom-researchers

 

I'm a volunteer firefighter - it's nuts - we were down fighting fires in Gippsland at the end of March, and then we had terrible ones again even before summer had started.

As for fuel-reduction burns: don't get me started. Yeah, they can help - I've worked on lots of em - have had em on my own property - but they're difficult and risky - and getting moreso - I've been to fires caused by runaway burns (eg Lancefield) - main reason we don't do more of em is the shrinking window of opportunity - and the cost - and the threat of being sued if you burn down somebody's house. From what I've gathered, we need to do more strategic controlled burns, not mass hectares.

 

Most frustrating part of it for me: it's apparently all my fault.  I woke up one day last week after some quite dangerous, painful experiences with the fires at Plenty and Sunbury - wandered down to my local coffee shop, made the mistake of reading The Hair-oiled Scum and read that : it's all down to me and the rest of us who vote for the progressive side of politics -  according to the Murdoch columnists and letters page (and Craig Kelly today) it's all because 'the greenies' won't let you burn the place down. I thought, like - yeah, right - The Greens are a huge influence on Gladys Berajiklian

 

Here's one thing I learned from The Scum : next time you hear somebody calling out for more 'backburns', thump them, because they don't know what they're talking about. 

 

 

[JakovichScissorKick 771]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-firebugs-fuelling-crisis-asarson-arresttollhits183/news-story/52536dc9ca9bb87b7c76d36ed1acf53f

Almost 200 arrested.

The country is on fire due to arsonists.   The climate change cult will conveniently ignore that though.

[dieter 3,325]

15 minutes ago, JakovichScissorKick said:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-firebugs-fuelling-crisis-asarson-arresttollhits183/news-story/52536dc9ca9bb87b7c76d36ed1acf53f

Almost 200 arrested.

The country is on fire due to arsonists.   The climate change cult will conveniently ignore that though.

Dear JSK, for short, the paper Jara referred to as The Scum is the wee little brother/sister of the most biased Murdoch paper of them all, a paper ex editors have disowned, a paper devoted to spreading the nonsense notion that Australian bushfires are started mainly by arsonists. Obviously some of the fires were lit be deluded maniacs, the demented losers who do such things are an unfortunate component of the human species. To suggest though this is the cause of the catastrophe confronting those poor victims of these fires makes a mockery of their pain and suffering. It puts you in a bad light as well, young man. It suggests you have a capacity to suspend your powers of disbelief when you are confronted by  fantasy, lies and propaganda.

And, just by the way, the climate change cult you refer to is actually composed of scientist after scientist who have been making dire predictions for over 30 years, most of which have tragically come to bear.

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by dieter