On 14/12/2019 at 03:32, Sir Why You Little said:

Sure is. We can chat from home. 
why would i go into a “Club Room” to vent. 
 

Once the Team is winning people will gravitate towards each other. 
it is all priorities. Get the Motor running first, tuned up and purring. Then build on that

I couple years ago halftime in the MGC dunnies a fellow supporter looks at me and says "Don't worry. We can come back."
"No we can't, we're forked, they don't even look like it."
"Yeah, you're right."
He was pretty easily swayed.
We shrugged our shoulders and parted company.
Good times.

Having said that, I think we do need a home, our own dung heap so to speak.
A place players and supporters can call our own, to strut around like we own the forken joint, enforce a sense of club identity.
I'm sure players would rather turn up to one central place to train as close to the city as possible.
Even if you were trying to convince a player to come across from another club and you told them we train at Goshes Paddock but then we also gotta travel across to bumfork Casey fields too.
Thats when the clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Richmond, Geelong etc start looking alot more attractive.
Then you throw in the extra money those clubs can splash around toward medical depts etc and we fall further down the list of desired destinations.

 

Edited December 14, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 14/12/2019 at 04:11, Fork 'em said:

I couple years ago halftime in the MGC dunnies a fellow supporter looks at me and says "Don't worry. We can come back."
"No we can't, we're forked, they don't even look like it."
"Yeah, you're right."
He was pretty easily swayed.
We shrugged our shoulders and parted company.
Good times.

Having said that, I think we do need a home, our own dung heap so to speak.
A place players and supporters can call our own, to strut around like we own the forken joint, enforce a sense of club identity.
I'm sure players would rather turn up to one central place to train as close to the city as possible.
Even if you were trying to convince a player to come across from another club and you told them we train at Goshes Paddock but then we also gotta travel across to bumfork Casey fields too.
Thats when the clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Richmond, Geelong etc start looking alot more attractive.
Then you throw in the extra money those clubs can splash around toward medical depts etc and we fall further down the list of desired destinations.

 

A home will be great. But it is useless if we are still down the bottom end of the ladder

 

  On 14/12/2019 at 08:50, Sir Why You Little said:

A home will be great. But it is useless if we are still down the bottom end of the ladder

 

Wandering nomads don't build empires.
To build an empire 1st you need a castle.
 

Edited December 15, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 15/12/2019 at 01:08, Fork 'em said:

Wandering nomads don't build empires.
To build an empire 1st you need a castle.
 

Win Games, then Build. Many an empty Castle stands idle, growing weeds from over zealous planning

Like where?
Hawthorn.
Geelong.
Essendon.
Collingwood.
Richmond.
West Coast.
Adelaide.
Port.
Fremantle.
Sydney.
Brisbane.
North.
Bulldogs.
Carlton.
All have their own joint.
Hell, even that souless mob GWS have their own castle.

You lack vision for the future.
Clearly what we're doing now aint forken working.
If you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always got.

Edited December 15, 20195 yr by Fork 'em

  On 15/12/2019 at 01:08, Fork 'em said:

Wandering nomads don't build empires.
To build an empire 1st you need a castle.
 

Can't be bothered looking it up, so maybe not word perfect, but Yeats had a memorable couple of lines (after reflecting upon past glories) - 

"Where fashion or mere fantasy decrees, we shift about

All that great glory spent

Like some poor Arab tribesman and his tent" 

  On 15/12/2019 at 05:11, Jara said:

Can't be bothered looking it up, so maybe not word perfect, but Yeats had a memorable couple of lines (after reflecting upon past glories) - 

"Where fashion or mere fantasy decrees, we shift about

All that great glory spent

Like some poor Arab tribesman and his tent" 

Wow. I had no idea Graeme was that eloquent. 

  On 15/12/2019 at 04:51, Fork 'em said:

Like where?
Hawthorn.
Geelong.
Essendon.
Collingwood.
Richmond.
West Coast.
Adelaide.
Port.
Fremantle.
Sydney.
Brisbane.
North.
Bulldogs.
Carlton.
All have their own joint.
Hell, even that souless mob GWS have their own castle.

You lack vision for the future.
Clearly what we're doing now aint forken working.
If you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always got.

Fork you should know better than that. 
If we don’t Start WINNING reguliarly we won’t have a future, regardless of nice shiny buildings

Talent and good coaching wins games - and a team needs lots of it.  All the rest of it is mostly bs.  And good coaching and a top-rate list requires a switched on board,  a top level CEO and good admin along with a well stocked and well functioning FD. 

Right now,  I'm not sure we've got all of the above or even any of the above.  We're probably 'ok' in a number of areas.  But ok doesn't win big.

The Junction oval was canned left right & centre yet we played in 12 finals series over a 20 year stretch from '87 to '06 whilst residing there.  No real aftermatch facilities either.  Also,  the Junction oval was well renowned for having the best surface going around so maybe there's a bit of a clue on what is actually required to be successful.

But I'm not advocating a return to the Junction oval. 

What I am saying is that having first class facilities or a spot to meet after the games doesn't matter that much.  That stuff doesn't matter at all if the list is devoid of talent. 

Prior to '87 and from '64 onwards we were devoid of real talent

Post '06 we were devoid of real talent. 

So it's about talent,  pure & simple. 

And we've never had enough talent to realistically challenge for a premiership or 2 ...  post '64. 

We've seen 5 teams have terrific era's where they've had really talented list's and they've still missed out on a flag (Pies '64 - '69,  Pies '70 - '73,  Pies '77 - '81,  Cats '89 - '95,  Saints '08 - '11) 

So there's your answer folks ... IMO. 

Having said all that,  it would be 'nice' to meet up with fellow Demon supporters at a designated centralised venue

  On 15/12/2019 at 09:12, Macca said:

We've seen 5 teams have terrific era's where they've had really talented list's and they've still missed out on a flag (Pies '64 - '69,  Pies '70 - '73,  Pies '77 - '81,  Cats '89 - '95,  Saints '08 - '11) 

FWIW add the Bombers of 2000

They looked to be unbeatable but their post 2000 record wasn't that great given their abolute dominance in 2000

  On 15/12/2019 at 10:14, Diamond_Jim said:

FWIW add the Bombers of 2000

They looked to be unbeatable but their post 2000 record wasn't that great given their abolute dominance in 2000

That's another category DJ

Clubs with ultra-talented list's that only achieved the ultimate prize once. 

Pies of 2010,  Pies of '90?  Bombers of 2000 (as you've pointed out)  Saints of '66,  maybe the 1980 Tigers?,  Blues of '95 are another.  Port Adelaide of 2004 should have added another flag given their list.

We're not in the conversation though as the '88 team and 2000 team had a collective H & A record of 27 wins with 17 losses.

We have clearly never been good enough since '64. 

Having said all that we look to be building a very good list but we are still a fair way off having a great list.  And as previously stated,  teams with a great list don't always win big.

How about those Buffalo Bills?  4 Super Bowl appearances in a row with a fantastic team but they missed out every time.  Sport can be cruel at times. 

  On 15/12/2019 at 05:39, Sir Why You Little said:

Fork you should know better than that. 
If we don’t Start WINNING reguliarly we won’t have a future, regardless of nice shiny buildings

I'm all for winning regularly.
But I'm also for sticking our fork in the ground and declaring that this is ours.
Building blocks man.
Surely we can do both.

  On 16/12/2019 at 02:32, Fork 'em said:

I'm all for winning regularly.
But I'm also for sticking our fork in the ground and declaring that this is ours.
Building blocks man.
Surely we can do both.

Umm, no, we can't. Not even one of them. The proof is all around you for the last 55 years. And that's why I agree with SWYL, get the "winning" bit right first. The rest will follow.

Nah you guys have it the other way around. Talent alone does not win premierships. It’s how the club is run and set up off the field that influences performances on the field in the long term IMV. We’ve had a lot of talent over the years whose development we’ve squandered over and over again due to [censored]-poor management running the club from the board down. 

Just look at Richmond. For decades they were poorly run with shithouse facilities and successive incompetent administrations and thus they sucked on field with a poor culture. But they got it right eventually at administration level and they’re now reaping the benefits.

I believe we have had good people running the club ever since PJ came on board. This year seemed unavoidable due to circumstances told time and time again.

It’s like any business or organisation. Get the right people in at the top who know what they’re doing and the results will flow eventually.

  On 16/12/2019 at 11:23, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Umm, no, we can't. Not even one of them. The proof is all around you for the last 55 years. And that's why I agree with SWYL, get the "winning" bit right first. The rest will follow.

you're right of course but what does the "winning bit" mean (ten years.. twenty years) and is it a realistic goal for  a club such as ours. Sure we will have our brief time in the sun (I hope) but sustained success ... that's a tough ask.

Do we need to embrace mediocrity and work on the football experience (whatever that means) so as to keep and perhaps grow our support base.

  On 14/12/2019 at 04:11, Fork 'em said:

I couple years ago halftime in the MGC dunnies a fellow supporter looks at me and says "Don't worry. We can come back."
"No we can't, we're forked, they don't even look like it."
"Yeah, you're right."
He was pretty easily swayed.
We shrugged our shoulders and parted company.
Good times.

Having said that, I think we do need a home, our own dung heap so to speak.
A place players and supporters can call our own, to strut around like we own the forken joint, enforce a sense of club identity.
I'm sure players would rather turn up to one central place to train as close to the city as possible.
Even if you were trying to convince a player to come across from another club and you told them we train at Goshes Paddock but then we also gotta travel across to bumfork Casey fields too.
Thats when the clubs like Hawthorn, Collingwood, Richmond, Geelong etc start looking alot more attractive.
Then you throw in the extra money those clubs can splash around toward medical depts etc and we fall further down the list of desired destinations.

 

Are you sure that was the only thing you shrugged when you were in the dunnies at the G ?

  On 16/12/2019 at 22:54, Diamond_Jim said:

you're right of course but what does the "winning bit" mean (ten years.. twenty years) and is it a realistic goal for  a club such as ours. Sure we will have our brief time in the sun (I hope) but sustained success ... that's a tough ask.

Do we need to embrace mediocrity and work on the football experience (whatever that means) so as to keep and perhaps grow our support base.

That's a very good question. I'm not sure which of these two options I prefer:

• that for the next ten years we play finals every year, winning many of them but never winning a Premiership; or
• in the next ten years we win one Premiership but spend the other nine years in the bottom two or three on the ladder.

I suspect I'd prefer the first. That would mean we would be winning more than losing every week, whereas the second option sees nine years of relative misery for one extraordinary year.

  On 16/12/2019 at 23:55, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

That's a very good question. I'm not sure which of these two options I prefer:

• that for the next ten years we play finals every year, winning many of them but never winning a Premiership; or
• in the next ten years we win one Premiership but spend the other nine years in the bottom two or three on the ladder.

I suspect I'd prefer the first. That would mean we would be winning more than losing every week, whereas the second option sees nine years of relative misery for one extraordinary year.

I will take option 1 with 3 Flags thanks

  On 16/12/2019 at 23:55, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

that for the next ten years we play finals every year, winning many of them but never winning a Premiership

North have done that almost and they are still going backwards or at best treading water.

It's not easy.

Brisbane had 3-5 years of success when it was a hot ticket in town but end of 2019 aside it barely draws a crowd.

 

  On 16/12/2019 at 23:55, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

That's a very good question. I'm not sure which of these two options I prefer:

• that for the next ten years we play finals every year, winning many of them but never winning a Premiership; or
• in the next ten years we win one Premiership but spend the other nine years in the bottom two or three on the ladder.

I suspect I'd prefer the first. That would mean we would be winning more than losing every week, whereas the second option sees nine years of relative misery for one extraordinary year.

If we did what the bulldogs did and slumped after a flag I'd be furious.
Typical MFC.

I want multiple flags.

 

Edited December 17, 20195 yr by Fork 'em