One more captaincy question to ponder...

[John Dee 445]

I was talking to a mate of mine a while back and he was trying to get me to say what I would be prepared to give up to get Judd. I said that, for starters, Brock McLean was untouchable. I was ridiculed for this as it seemed to indicate that I considered Brock a better foootballer than Judd. I was forced to admit that Judd is a better footballer, but, I would not budge, Brock is untouchable. There are too many intangibles and the upside is too high. In his short time with us he has come to embody everything we like about our football club and everything we want it to be.

Having said that, 2007 is too early and would put far too much pressure on him. Neeta to go one more year and Brock for 2008.

On Judd, love to have him, but, I don't think it will happen.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Demon Magik,

While I love James McDonald as a footballer and have publicly backed him in the years when he was the forgotten hardworker he is not a chance for the captaincy.

He's 31 next year and has possibly one or two seasons left. Given the expected development of younger midfielders Moloney, Bell, McLean and Jones and Co I would be concerned if Junior was still a signficant part of the midfield mix.

No slur on him but it should be recognised that he is coming towards the end of his career as a wonderfully loyal servant to the Club. But he is not a captaincy option at 32 in 2008.

[Damo 3,261]

I really dont know what is more irritating...

Someone who cant spell red and blue (see above) and adds crap at every opportunity,

OR

Some one who is no light weight carrying on about JUDD.

Good players hardly ever, ever change clubs anymore.

Ottens, Aker, Nathan and Scott Thompson are the only ones in the last few years, and they all arguably had problems.

The meat market has changed since Buckley went through.

When has some-one who is currently in Sheahan's top 50 been available?

maybe 4 times in the last 10 years.

If you take the top 10, I dont know when there has been a change. Im sure some-one will extract a fact. B)

But to wish for the top player, at any cost to the club, is in my view, a total [censored].

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yeah. The idea of Jmac suddenly being skipper is ridiculous. What I meant to do was provoke some lateral thought. If they actually went through with it could you imagine the abuse they'd cop?

[CarnTheDees 52]

IF Judd was a possibility, the only untouchable on our list is McLean. Not just for his ability on the park, but to draft a brilliant young player with obvious leadership skills, then to invest heavily in his development and have him return that investment with skill, dedication and courage above his years, if we threw all of that away it destroys the fabric of the club.

Assuming Judd is fully fit, WC can have any 2 other players on our list that they like (TJ, Bruce, Rivers, Bate, Jones...) plus an exchange of draft picks to even the numbers.

If Judd wanted to come home, then every Victorian club will throw everything they have at him. This puts WC in a very strong position, and more than likely will see them getting very good value out of any deal they do.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,434]

Here's an amazing concept to fathom....perhaps Judd will play out his career at West Coast. I don't know why every Victorian and his dog are obsessed with the thought of Christopher returning to Victoria.

I also can't work out why Neitz hasn't been reinstated yet for 2007. I thought it was automatically assumed. Would he not want the job for next year? He did a superb job in 06 IMO.

[beelzebub 23,204]

just as irritating perhaps as those that get tied up over minor typos !!.

we all have our opinions...some get that concept..others are just full of own import!!

[old55 22,878]

I never said we MUST get Judd, let alone we must get him AT ANY COST - that would be derelict in our duty to MFC. But it would be equally derelict to say "he's never leaving WC", "he'll be too expensive" and not pursue the possibility of getting him to its final conclusion. It's a tough question, too tough for most here, but I expect our Board, Exec and FD to fully tackle it and get a result one way or the other.

And just to bring the thread back on topic. IF Chris Judd came to MFC in 2008 it would be as Captain. FFS, following Bub's line of "reasoning" maybe if Judd had actually achieved something meaningful in his 5 years in footy apart from winning the Brownlow, the Norm Smith Medal and being Premiership Captain he would have earned sufficient respect from the MFC players to warrant being our Captain! The idea of Chris Judd being Brock McLean's vice captain makes about as much sense as the idea that Jeff Kennett was trying to entice Leigh Matthews back to Hawthorn to be Al Clarkson's deputy.

[Jaded No More 68,086]

And just to bring the thread back on topic. IF Chris Judd came to MFC in 2008 it would be as Captain. FFS, following Bub's line of "reasoning" maybe if Judd had actually achieved something meaningful in his 5 years in footy apart from winning the Brownlow, the Norm Smith Medal and being Premiership Captain he would have earned sufficient respect from the MFC players to warrant being our Captain! The idea of Chris Judd being Brock McLean's vice captain makes about as much sense as the idea that Jeff Kennett was trying to entice Leigh Matthews back to Hawthorn to be Al Clarkson's deputy.

You think Melbourne players are going to take kindly to being captained by a guy they don't know?

IMO, Judd is clearly not happy being captain of WC. Who says that he'll enjoy the added pressure of captaining a side he doesn't know?

I don't think he'd walk into our club and be made captain. It wouldn't go down well. He needs time to get to know his teammates, and the way things are done at the club. He isn't God, he is a footballer. To turn him into some sort of super-human and demand too much of him, could have a negative affect both on him and the club.

And what's wrong with Brock being Captain and Judd being VC?

Is Neitz our best player? No. Was Cousins a better player than Judd?

Being captain is more than being a good player. Besides, even with Judd in our side, Brock will still be firmly in our top 5.

[Hannabal 4]

You think Melbourne players are going to take kindly to being captained by a guy they don't know?

IMO, Judd is clearly not happy being captain of WC. Who says that he'll enjoy the added pressure of captaining a side he doesn't know?

Good post, Jaded.

From what I know, Judd is a relatively quiet guy who doesn't crave the limelight. There's no doubt that he was reluctant to captain WC this year, but the footy club leaned on him.

I doubt very much that he'd be comfortable walking in and being captain in his first year. I don't think he's the type.

[old55 22,878]

You think Melbourne players are going to take kindly to being captained by a guy they don't know?

Dunno, do you think Brisbane players took kindly to being coached by a guy they didn't know when Leigh Matthews arrived?

I don't think he'd walk into our club and be made captain. It wouldn't go down well. He needs time to get to know his teammates, and the way things are done at the club. He isn't God, he is a footballer. To turn him into some sort of super-human and demand too much of him, could have a negative affect both on him and the club.

If Chris Judd did come to MFC we will have traded extremely heavily to get him and we will be paying him close to $1M/year. On that basis he'll be here because he is great. He'll be Captain. We wont be going there just for some good player.

[Jaded No More 68,086]

Dunno, do you think Brisbane players took kindly to being coached by a guy they didn't know when Leigh Matthews arrived?

If Chris Judd did come to MFC we will have traded extremely heavily to get him and we will be paying him close to $1M/year. On that basis he'll be here because he is great. He'll be Captain. We wont be going there just for some good player.

Coach and captain are two different things.

A captain needs to be comfortable with his players as much as the players need to be comfortable with him.

You don't need to be friendly with your coach. In fact, it's probably better if you aren't.

Of course Judd is a great player, but being a great player is not an indication that you'd make a great captain. He is clearly not the captain at WC behind closed doors.In fact, he is probably only the captain in media confrences.

I agree with Hannabal (who knew the day would come ), he'd refuse the offer.

[Nasher 33,607]

Dunno, do you think Brisbane players took kindly to being coached by a guy they didn't know when Leigh Matthews arrived?

A captain needs to have earned the respect of the players of the club if he wants to be an effective captain, and that respect needs to be as both a person and a player. I can't see how an import could possibly fill that role, even if he is one of the game's greats. The players won't have been around the guy for long enough to respect him in the way that is necessary for him to be captain. If anything, they'd probably resent the fact that he waltzed in and took over.

It's completely different for a coach. Coaches don't have the luxury of being able to blend in with the scenery for a while before really earning their respect. They need to demand it instantly. You're comparing apples and oranges there.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You think Melbourne players are going to take kindly to being captained by a guy they don't know?

IMO, Judd is clearly not happy being captain of WC. Who says that he'll enjoy the added pressure of captaining a side he doesn't know?

I don't think he'd walk into our club and be made captain. It wouldn't go down well. He needs time to get to know his teammates, and the way things are done at the club. He isn't God, he is a footballer. To turn him into some sort of super-human and demand too much of him, could have a negative affect both on him and the club.

And what's wrong with Brock being Captain and Judd being VC?

Is Neitz our best player? No. Was Cousins a better player than Judd?

Being captain is more than being a good player. Besides, even with Judd in our side, Brock will still be firmly in our top 5.

Judd became captain at WCE under extremely difficult and turbulent circumstances. For a youug man he has adapted to the role brilliantly. He has further enhanced his already superstar status with some truly exceptional performances.

Furthermore he has captained a team to a flag at time where in less than 12 preceeding months, the previous captain has disgraced himself and the embarrassed the club and a former No 1 AA ruckman has publicly self destructed eight weeks from the finals. Judd took it in his stride and still provided excellent leadership and outstanding performance.

His maturity and grace was evidenced by the way he called Cousins on the dais soon after receiving the cup.

In the heat of the public eye Judd rose to the occassion.

I dont think it is a given that if Judd came to MFC why Brock would automatically get the nod as captain. We would be truly blessed with two outstanding young men who are skilled footballers with wonderful charater traits that would make either a worthy captain of their team.

I would have no problem with Judd being captain and Brock VC if Judd was to coming.

[Hannabal 4]

I agree with Hannabal (who knew the day would come ), he'd refuse the offer.

I've noticed your improvement of late. Keep it up.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

The meat market has changed since Buckley went through.

When has some-one who is currently in Sheahan's top 50 been available?

maybe 4 times in the last 10 years.

Sheahans top 50! lol take a look at ur self, mike sheahan has to be one of the biggest idiots in the football world.

Big players do get traded but usually once they are old and past their best

[Nasher 33,607]

Err, BrownlowBruce, you've missed the point big time there. Sheahan's Top 50 is just a way of providing a concrete example of rating players. You could replace Sheahan's Top 50 with any methodology of player ratings and Franky's point would be exactly the same.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

no i dont think i have , we are all now dumber for even refrencing Shehans top 50.

instead of lookin at say the top 50 maybe we should look at top players at a specific club, and to mind i can think of some big names which have been traded which may not have nesccesary been in Shehans 50

Shane woewodin and jeff farmer come to mind = both played essential roles in the melbourne side

now i know everyone is going to be they dont compare to Judd but their role at the club maybe

[rumpole 514]

no i dont think i have , we are all now dumber for even refrencing Shehans top 50.

instead of lookin at say the top 50 maybe we should look at top players at a specific club, and to mind i can think of some big names which have been traded which may not have nesccesary been in Shehans 50

Shane woewodin and jeff farmer come to mind = both played essential roles in the melbourne side

now i know everyone is going to be they dont compare to Judd but their role at the club maybe

There's a great article about Brock McLean in today's Sunday Herald Sun but I can't find an internet link to it ATM.