11 minutes ago, stuie said:

Vince needs to go back to the middle, it baffles me that his move to HB has been talked up so much when he's clearly had an underwhelming year.

 

 

Just now, McQueen said:

Wtf has this got to do with discussion about Salem?

 

13 hours ago, Abe said:

Interested to hear thoughts on the position Salem will play in 2017, will he continue off half back? considering Hibberd is likely coming in and we already have Hunt dominating from half back and some other competition for spots there, with Vince likely playing more of a role there again next year,

 

How about you take a breath and have a read before coming out swinging champ.

 

11 hours ago, McQueen said:

Illness aside, I personally still have a question mark beside his name.

I can't really put my finger on it but there's something lacking in the way he plays the game. Maybe the HBF role isn't for him and time on ball might aid his development.

Seems to be a lot of praise for a bloke who has neat skills but not much of a body of evidence to suggest he'll be an integral cog in next years machine.

I know where you are coming from McQ. Certainly he hasn't taken the 'next step' that many of us were predicting in 2016.  Perhaps it's that he's not suited to the HBF role, but I have a suspicion that maybe his thyroid condition was slowly creeping up on him well before he recognised it, and before its return was formally diagnosed.

Love him to shadow Jetta and become a clone of his hardness and competitive nature. 

 

Free up Bernie down back then start playing cameos through the guts and wing. 

 

But get your body right first and this kid could be anything. 

3 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

Has missed so much development time it's super hard to gauge his potential or what role he can play.

 

I always saw him as a bit of a Hodge - capable of playing the sweeper role, capable of playing as a hit up half forward, capable of moving thru the midfield.

 

But he's missed so much footy it's very very hard to judge what he is going to be.

Exactly this.
Modelled his game on Hodge as a junior, and it's how I see his career panning out.
He'll play where he's needed, and will be able to have an impact all over the ground with his hardness and damaging skills.

I'd like to see him given the Dean Kent role. Similar physical attributes but a better decision maker and user IMO.

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Vince needs to go back to the middle, it baffles me that his move to HB has been talked up so much when he's clearly had an underwhelming year.

 

His clearances aren't damaging enough though. Even more so than Jones, Bernie has the propensity to rush his clearances, sky them and take away much of the advantage he has gained us. I want Tyson, Viney and Oliver in the guts. Vince can go through there occasionally, but he just has to get better off half back, because that's where he'll be playing the majority of his football from now on.

And I'd go as far as saying his year has been ordinary. He turns it over far too much for a player of his class, playing in the easiest position on the ground.

And on Salem, he's not soft in the contest, he's a beautiful kick. But I have two questions on him at this stage. Can he stay on the park? And can he rack up possessions? Yes, injury has plagued him, but if you look at guys like Tyson, Oliver and Petracca, they've come in and managed to get 20 possessions pretty easily. For a guy playing off half back, he doesn't get it enough. Even someone like Butcher Harmes, he certainly knows how to get the ball - just needs to tidy his decision-making and disposals up. 

Some guys just have that knack of finding the footy. Salem hasn't exhibited this yet, but his combination of outside skill and toughness excite me as much as anyone. I'm prepared to give him another 2-3 seasons to let him develop and test his mettle. Still think he'll probably get there if injuries don't cruel him.

Edited August 26, 20168 yr by A F

15 minutes ago, A F said:

His clearances aren't damaging enough though. Even more so than Jones, Bernie has the propensity to rush his clearances, sky them and take away much of the advantage he has gained us. I want Tyson, Viney and Oliver in the guts. Vince can go through there occasionally, but he just has to get better off half back, because that's where he'll be playing the majority of his football from now on.

And I'd go as far as saying his year has been ordinary. He turns it over far too much for a player of his class, playing in the easiest position on the ground.

I actually think he's a better burst player than those 3 inside guys so I'd like to see him playing as an outside mid a bit more, maybe rotate a bit with Salem, Hunt and Melksham through that kind of HB/wing role.

 

23 minutes ago, stuie said:

I actually think he's a better burst player than those 3 inside guys so I'd like to see him playing as an outside mid a bit more, maybe rotate a bit with Salem, Hunt and Melksham through that kind of HB/wing role.

 

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they use him. He'll want to perform a lot better than this year though, otherwise he might be in trouble in 2-3 years time.

Just now, A F said:

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how they use him. He'll want to perform a lot better than this year though, otherwise he might be in trouble in 2-3 years time.

His dip in form seemed to coincide with his shin injury, so hopefully that's mostly to blame and he'll be right next year.

 

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

His dip in form seemed to coincide with his shin injury, so hopefully that's mostly to blame and he'll be right next year.

 

Thought he was pretty wasteful and show-ponyish earlier in the year too, but maybe I'm a harsh marker.  I expect more from my senior players though.

I'm not as impressed with Salem as others. No denying he has good kicking skills and goes when it's his turn, but he's also come on slowly and not developed certain aspects of his game the coaches were getting him to work on.

He's a poor player defensively, to the point where opposition coaches instruct their players to go through whoever is his closest match up (know this for fact from assistant coach at another club). He loses one on one contests in the air and gets outbodied if it comes to ground. He'll never make it and a half back if he can't learn to defend competently and thus far he hasn't.

He's also failed to impact games offensively. He doesn't get enough of the ball, and when he does he doesn't use his kicking skills to good effect, often chipping short with noting kicks. He needs to learn to find a decent longer option and start hitting those passes to release play. Hopefully this comes with experience and having more options provided by his teammates.

He's still got plenty of time, and he definitely is talented and could become a star, but at this stage he hasn't developed as expected and needs to come on quickly over the next 1-2 years. It starts with getting his body right and then building form from there. I'd prefer to see him play midfield in the future. We want him to be the player kicking in inside 50.

Edited August 26, 20168 yr by Lord Travis

I suggested trading him few years back as he is an injury prone player and it is going to stunt his development, I got shot down and look at what's happening. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see him floated for trade this year either if return was good. We have Melksham Hunt Harmes and potentially Hibberd to the half back role. 

Edited August 26, 20168 yr by olisik

52 minutes ago, olisik said:

I suggested trading him few years back as he is an injury prone player and it is going to stunt his development, I got shot down and look at what's happening. 

 

Wouldn't be surprised to see him floated for trade this year either if return was good. We have Melksham Hunt Harmes and potentially Hibberd to the half back role. 

If another club offered a first round for pick for him I'd take it. His value will likely be diminished now though as he has been injured and not developed as expected. 

3 hours ago, stuie said:

 

 

How about you take a breath and have a read before coming out swinging champ.

 

Oh the irony.

1 hour ago, olisik said:

I suggested trading him few years back as he is an injury prone player and it is going to stunt his development, I got shot down and look at what's happening. 

Wouldn't be surprised to see him floated for trade this year either if return was good. We have Melksham Hunt Harmes and potentially Hibberd to the half back role. 

One or 2 other misinformed people agree with you?

Must be a real badge of pride for you mate.

46 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Oh the irony.

22 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

One or 2 other misinformed people agree with you?

Must be a real badge of pride for you mate.

Imagine what clubs would do if we currenty asked them for pick 9 for him.

his value is dropping by the year 

Agree. Bernie is a midfielder/winger, and should be resting forward when not in the there. I think the only reason he is playing in the backline is because we don't have anyone else to take the kickouts. I definitely don't see him as a backman.

35 minutes ago, olisik said:

Imagine what clubs would do if we currenty asked them for pick 9 for him.

his value is dropping by the year 

According to who?
 

1 hour ago, Mach5 said:

According to who?
 

You think a club would give us a top 10 pick for Salem? If not then according to you.

2 hours ago, Mach5 said:

One or 2 other misinformed people agree with you?

Must be a real badge of pride for you mate.

Agreed, as soon as he had a couple of runs in the VFL after the illness, straight back in the side, Roos reckons "he can play anywhere and we have missed him",

Let's trade him....oh dear

If we were offered a top 10 pick I'd take it and run. He's averaging less than 10 games a year at this point, and when he's played he's barely had an impact.
He is definitely talented, but you can only last on potential for so long. In my opinion, he's got 2 more years to get his body right and start impacting games. If he still finds himself on the side lines or struggling to cement a position after that time, that's then 5 years on the list and you move him on. Hopefully for his sake and the team's sake he comes good and can stay on the park and start fulfilling his potential!

The handy things is that with Salem we have a ready made replacement for Big Max if he were to go down.

I've actually heard coaches talking about him & how terrible he is  -  especially in slips.

Let's give him to the Blues for pick 11 & draft back Gysberts.

 

 

At a time when quality users of a football have never been more valuable, largely due to a modern game based on turnovers, you don't jettison a clearly talented 21 year old former top 10 pick, who has struggled with injury. 

That would be foolish and hasty in the extreme.

I remember a young Scott Thompson, who was invariably injured at Melbourne, leave for Adelaide where he's hardly missed a game.