Ain't footy a funny game. All season I read bile spewed forth at our players like Grimes and McKenzie who have shown as much good guy and loyalty as Trengove and yet out of season there are those who are threatening to burn their memberships if Trenners is traded. And one poster suggested comparing Trenners loyalty to McKenzie's wasn't relevant because Trenners was a better player. So much for supporter loyalty. Really reading DL can do your head in sometimes.

And secondly I can't find a post that talks about what would be best for Trenners, just that we shouldn't let him go because he's got blue sky and loyal. If Trenners now says he is happy to go I wonder what all the loyalist will say.

What many are missing is the move to Richmond may be the best thing for the footballer, the one you want to "reward" for his loyalty by keeping him.

Talk about killing with kindness.

Most players are renewed to some degree by a change of environment, but I don't believe that changing from Melbourne to Richmond is going to be a significant factor in any Trenners rennaisance. If he can resdiscover his early career form, I'd be far more expectant of it being as a result of getting a full pre-season, and a run of games that are injury and stress free. He can have all of that here. He doesn't have the captaincy burden. He doesn't have the same lofty expectations and responsibility on his shoulders.

So no, I don't really believe it's the absolute best thing for him to leave. I believe he can flourish at our club where he has built his career. Further, there's been nothing to suggest he is happy to go. The only reports we've had is that he isn't happy, but will do what the club sees as the best move.

So no, I don't really believe it's the absolute best thing for him to leave.

It's called a contract.

He's far from assured of a flourishing future. If you think he is you're blinded by bias.

He's far from assured of a flourishing future. If you think he is you're blinded by bias.

I never said he was assured of a flourishing future. I'm saying that if he does flourish, I won't be attributing it to a switch of clubs. I just think he's had rotten luck so far with injuries and other factors.

I'm sure Richmond fans will be lining up to take the acclaim however.

It is impossible to argue against the move to the Tigers being better for him.

Really?

Richmond has a much stronger midfield than we do, and though I still can't believe I'm saying this, they also have a list that has made the finals the last two years.

We have no depth outside of our top 4-5 mids.

Surely the easier midfield for him to crack into is the Melbourne one?

It's called a contract.

He's far from assured of a flourishing future. If you think he is you're blinded by bias.

Some of us believe Trengove can play good football at our club

In my case, it has nothing to do with any bias - I simply believe he can overcome his foot issue and play good football. I saw enough of him in his first 2 years to have that view. I also believe that the only reason that Trengove's form dropped off is because of his foot issue.

Loyalty is still a big factor in a footy club despite the increase in player movement and I admired the stance that McKenzie took a few years ago and, ... I don't put him down like some others do.

Grimes is another player who I don't want to discard. Like many of our players, both McKenzie & Grimes have deficiencies in their game but I always believe a player can improve - anytime.

Of the three, Trengove has far greater upside.

Really?

Richmond has a much stronger midfield than we do, and though I still can't believe I'm saying this, they also have a list that has made the finals the last two years.

We have no depth outside of our top 4-5 mids.

Surely the easier midfield for him to crack into is the Melbourne one?

Neither do they. After Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Ellis and Miles it's guys like Grigg, Edwards, Vlaustin, Petterd, Conca, Foley. Those 6 aren't getting a look in at top 4 sides. They may be better than Watts, Bail, M Jones and Lumumba but they are in a similar league of struggle town.

It's why we could beat them earlier in the year. Cross and Jones took care of Deledio and Cotchin and it came down to Martin and Ellis v Tyson and Vince. Miles was a great find though once they started playing him.

More so though they need Deledio to play half forward and wing so he gets out in space and is damaging and they need Martin (and he himself needs) time forward as well. Ellis is better at wing and half back as well. Edwards is a forward flanker, Vlaustin a back flanker and Conca nothing more than depth.

If they are ever going to really compete for top 4 they need to replace Foley and Grigg with a productive inside mid and a classy outside mid. Daniel Jackson was a big loss for them. Trengove could be a way of fixing one of those spots.

The thing about Trengove is he's hard, smart and discipline. You get him in a best 22 and in form he'll hold his spot. You aren't going backwards to a Grigg or Foley nor a Matt Jones or McKenzie or whatever we are offering up as our lesser mids if you get Trenners playing well. So if he cracked the Richmond side as was healthy and moving well I'm sure he'd stay there. If he's struggling he won't get a look in at Richmond but if we get any kind of improvement from Matt Jones, Bail, Michie, Riley, Toumpas, Watts, Lumumba and Trengove is still moving up and down on the spot and not getting the ball then he's not getting a game for us either!

As far as I understand it he still has police charges against him which he has to go to court for.

Some charges were dropped but there are still some remaining which is what I heard on SEN I think.

We would want to make bloody sure he aint going to the klink before we trade for him if he is one of the players we are targeting.

Doesn't Jeff Garlett have a court hearing soon?

Really?

Richmond has a much stronger midfield than we do, and though I still can't believe I'm saying this, they also have a list that has made the finals the last two years.

We have no depth outside of our top 4-5 mids.

Surely the easier midfield for him to crack into is the Melbourne one?

Let's have a look at both sides 5 best midfielders

Richmond:

Martin: 25.5 disposals, 2.5 tackles, 1.2 goals,

Cotchin: 26 disposals, 4.1 tackles, 0.8 goals,

Ellis: 26.1 disposals, 2.4 tackles, 0.4 goals,

Deledio: 25.4 disposals, 2.7 tackles, 1.1 goals

Conca: 18.7 disposals, 5.1 tackles, 0.2 goals

Melbourne:

Jones: 27.4 disposals, 5.2 tackles, 0.3 goals

Vince: 24.2 disposals, 3.5 tackles, 0.6 goals

Tyson: 23.7 disposals, 3.2 tackles, 0.7 goals

Cross: 21.6 disposals, 5.3 tackles, 0.1 goals

Viney: 19.8 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 0.2 goals

There isn't a huge difference between the midfields, he'd be able to break into either one imo.

Doesn't Jeff Garlett have a court hearing soon?

Yep. And this is all hypothetical and not referring to any alleged incidents, but I'd rather a guy who goes out on his birthday on a Saturday night after having a really rough year and gets in to trouble with other drunken yobbos at 5am than a guy who goes out when drinking and injured on a Monday night, hobbles round on a crutch and ends up in fisty cuffs with a bouncer.

Not a fair comparison. The upside on Jack we have seen . Its good. Jordie we have also seen his best and it ain't good.

That's exactly my point, strip back the intangibles and judge the football.

We could have the most loyal playing list in the AFL and get absolutely nowhere.

I am not saying that charisma, loyalty, good character etc aren't important but they are only a component of the player.

We are going to be desperate for line-breakers through the midfield.

Let's have a look at both sides 5 best midfielders

Richmond:

Martin: 25.5 disposals, 2.5 tackles, 1.2 goals,

Cotchin: 26 disposals, 4.1 tackles, 0.8 goals,

Ellis: 26.1 disposals, 2.4 tackles, 0.4 goals,

Deledio: 25.4 disposals, 2.7 tackles, 1.1 goals

Conca: 18.7 disposals, 5.1 tackles, 0.2 goals

Melbourne:

Jones: 27.4 disposals, 5.2 tackles, 0.3 goals

Vince: 24.2 disposals, 3.5 tackles, 0.6 goals

Tyson: 23.7 disposals, 3.2 tackles, 0.7 goals

Cross: 21.6 disposals, 5.3 tackles, 0.1 goals

Viney: 19.8 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 0.2 goals

There isn't a huge difference between the midfields, he'd be able to break into either one imo.

Gee, our man Jones looks good in that, doesn't he? Legend. Goals are the only things he's missing. How he didn't make the top 50 list is a joke.

Gee, our man Jones looks good in that, doesn't he? Legend. Goals are the only things he's missing. How he didn't make the top 50 list is a joke.

He made Mike Sheahans but only at 40 something, what a true supporter.

What's more of a joke is that he didn't make All Australian!

So underrated!

Just tell me this. Is Trenners out there batting with a runner or not?

Trenners is next in, with the ball doing a fair bit off the pitch. Will need to have his footwork sorted out ...

Let's have a look at both sides 5 best midfielders

Richmond:

Martin: 25.5 disposals, 2.5 tackles, 1.2 goals,

Cotchin: 26 disposals, 4.1 tackles, 0.8 goals,

Ellis: 26.1 disposals, 2.4 tackles, 0.4 goals,

Deledio: 25.4 disposals, 2.7 tackles, 1.1 goals

Conca: 18.7 disposals, 5.1 tackles, 0.2 goals

Melbourne:

Jones: 27.4 disposals, 5.2 tackles, 0.3 goals

Vince: 24.2 disposals, 3.5 tackles, 0.6 goals

Tyson: 23.7 disposals, 3.2 tackles, 0.7 goals

Cross: 21.6 disposals, 5.3 tackles, 0.1 goals

Viney: 19.8 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 0.2 goals

There isn't a huge difference between the midfields, he'd be able to break into either one imo.

Only one major difference.....

All of those Richmond players use the ball a hell of a lot better than any of ours.....

He made Mike Sheahans but only at 40 something, what a true supporter.

What's more of a joke is that he didn't make All Australian!

So underrated!

If we win a few more games, journos will pay more attention to him and rate him higher. Very unfair, but journos are popularists, so they write what the masses want to read.

Thompson wanted to go home and was pretty much fit as a fiddle iirc !!

Thompson had an injury riddled run at the Dees, even had a foot injury if I recall correctly...

He made Mike Sheahans but only at 40 something, what a true supporter.

What's more of a joke is that he didn't make All Australian!

So underrated!

I would've been okay with him not making the 22, but to not even make the 40 man squad was farcical.

I just don't understand why posters get so carried away by draft picks......Pick 12 for a 23 year old who was considered by the FD at the time to be worthy of the captaincy for an 18 year old kid who might be ok in 2 or 3 years and lose another draft pick

Dangerfield and Beams wont be coming to us

Pick whatever will get you a 18 year old who has had no defensive training in the TAC comp, weather it is pick 1 or pick 60.

A lot of the supposed trades put up are pure fantasy and wishful thinking.

No I don't want Trengove to go as fully fit he is 5 years ahead of anyone from the draft no matter what the supposed "experts" say.

I wont comment further on this thread until trade shambles is over

I just hope Jack turns down the offer and MFC agree

Let's have a look at both sides 5 best midfielders

Richmond:

Martin: 25.5 disposals, 2.5 tackles, 1.2 goals,

Cotchin: 26 disposals, 4.1 tackles, 0.8 goals,

Ellis: 26.1 disposals, 2.4 tackles, 0.4 goals,

Deledio: 25.4 disposals, 2.7 tackles, 1.1 goals

Conca: 18.7 disposals, 5.1 tackles, 0.2 goals

Melbourne:

Jones: 27.4 disposals, 5.2 tackles, 0.3 goals

Vince: 24.2 disposals, 3.5 tackles, 0.6 goals

Tyson: 23.7 disposals, 3.2 tackles, 0.7 goals

Cross: 21.6 disposals, 5.3 tackles, 0.1 goals

Viney: 19.8 disposals, 4.3 tackles, 0.2 goals

There isn't a huge difference between the midfields, he'd be able to break into either one imo.

I think it's still a huge difference, they hit the scoreboard much more, & probably tackle less cause they're chasing less as they are using it better. That said, with better players added in & around our group next year we could certainly surpass theirs. Add Trenners at his best to them, add HL, JG, a Brayshaw, Frost and midfield gun to our whole list & I'm bullish that we can conceivably win more games then them next year.

I would be worried about the impact this could have in the locker rooms because jack is very popular guy with the players.

Neither do they. After Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Ellis and Miles it's guys like Grigg, Edwards, Vlaustin, Petterd, Conca, Foley. Those 6 aren't getting a look in at top 4 sides. They may be better than Watts, Bail, M Jones and Lumumba but they are in a similar league of struggle town.

It's why we could beat them earlier in the year. Cross and Jones took care of Deledio and Cotchin and it came down to Martin and Ellis v Tyson and Vince. Miles was a great find though once they started playing him.

More so though they need Deledio to play half forward and wing so he gets out in space and is damaging and they need Martin (and he himself needs) time forward as well. Ellis is better at wing and half back as well. Edwards is a forward flanker, Vlaustin a back flanker and Conca nothing more than depth.

If they are ever going to really compete for top 4 they need to replace Foley and Grigg with a productive inside mid and a classy outside mid. Daniel Jackson was a big loss for them. Trengove could be a way of fixing one of those spots.

The thing about Trengove is he's hard, smart and discipline. You get him in a best 22 and in form he'll hold his spot. You aren't going backwards to a Grigg or Foley nor a Matt Jones or McKenzie or whatever we are offering up as our lesser mids if you get Trenners playing well. So if he cracked the Richmond side as was healthy and moving well I'm sure he'd stay there. If he's struggling he won't get a look in at Richmond but if we get any kind of improvement from Matt Jones, Bail, Michie, Riley, Toumpas, Watts, Lumumba and Trengove is still moving up and down on the spot and not getting the ball then he's not getting a game for us either!

I guess it comes down to subjective ratings of their depth vs ours, but I'd have thought he's a better chance of moving past M Jones, Bail, Michie and Riley than he is of moving past Conca, Vlastuin, Foley and Edwards.

At any rate, the argument that it's 'impossible' to disagree that Richmond is the better fit is a bit hyperbolic, which was the original qualm.

There is a spot for him at Melbourne and we currently don't have the depth to be keeping him out altogether.

Yep. And this is all hypothetical and not referring to any alleged incidents, but I'd rather a guy who goes out on his birthday on a Saturday night after having a really rough year and gets in to trouble with other drunken yobbos at 5am than a guy who goes out when drinking and injured on a Monday night, hobbles round on a crutch and ends up in fisty cuffs with a bouncer.

I didn't know anything about the details, just a genuine query.

Only one major difference.....

All of those Richmond players use the ball a hell of a lot better than any of ours.....

Richmond:

Martin: 67% DE

Cotchin: 63.8% DE

Ellis: 73.4% DE

Deledio: 71.8% DE

Conca: 69.9%

Melbourne:

Jones: 73.4% DE

Vince: 64.5 % DE

Tyson: 72.6 % DE

Cross: 78,2 % DE

Viney: 66.4% DE

Despite what you may believe, we actually use it better.

The following article is from December 2012 ...

Demons co-captain Jack Trengove to miss six weeks with foot injury

Some quotes from Josh Mahoney ...

"The positive element to this is that the stress fracture was identified early, which will allow Jack to begin his rehab immediately.

"We expect Jack to be able to begin his running program in January. His rehab will be continually assessed but at this stage we are hopeful that he'll be available for the start of the AFL season."

Yeah, they might have identified the stress fracture "early" but ... how long was it troubling him for?

Stress fractures can hang about for quite some time and just get progressively worse. It's not like doing a ACL or pulling a hamstring off the bone.

We know he had the same foot operated on about 16 months later so it could be assumed that he played with a fair degree of duress and discomfort in 2013. ... Just like Hogan, we can't make an assessment of Jack's year, this season, because ... he was basically unavailable.