For mine, Trengove's biggest disadvantage has been his ability to repeatedly get to contests, be involved in play, and then provide spread both offensively and defensively. He can do it every now and then, but with no consistency. I'm hoping it's been his foot issue.

Toumpas just looks slow, soft, and lazy and worst of all like he can't hit a target to save himself. I have massive concerns and he's been a big disappointment.

The big advantage that both these guys have is that time is on their side and hopefully they're now being developed correctly.

We've been watching different games. He's a beautiful kick.

Delist

Bail: can't kick.

Terlich: can't kick and panics after making dumb decision.

Blease: has pace, can't kick and a lions player ran away from him when he needed to chase.

Nicho: can't kick.

Tmac is luck he is a decent key defender cos his kicking is terrible and decision making not much better.

Garland and Grimes need to more hard over summer too.

he had some utterly dominate games in his younger years, the hips have set him back though, I reckon Roosy and Stone are the best two people to turn him into something

Yeah wait until he has a good preseason Just because he was great at junior level doesnt mean anything at the top level

I've said it before, but toumpas and trenners are the last two blokes on roosys mind.

Why you ask?

We can't trade trade them as they don't have much trade value, we won't get anything worth while for them because of their recent on park performances and injury issues.

We won't delist them, because there so many guys below them - e.g. blease, strauss, terlich, mckenzie, .. the list goes on.

Our best bet for the next year or 2 is to put the work in to them and develop them.

Im quite confident they will both come along.

I have more faith in trenners because I have seen what he can do.

I don't know about toumpas and his hip surgery and what the ramifications were, but with misson and roos running the show id imagine they're on top of this and know where he's at. He wouldn't be playing at any level if there was still an issue. (well i hope not)

my gut feeling is that he's had trouble stregthening the hip muscles, lower back, hamstrings and glutes and getting them all working the way the should when running, and its potentially resulting in a poor posture when running.

Ive seen him run, and he has his hips quite low, seems to try to stretch out, but run low on his hips. It just doesn't work like that.

As i said i don't know the true story of his situation, but from observation, he looks like he needs a running coach to get those hips up so he can get more drive.

Runs like a pregnant duck at the moment a lot of work to do Why they selected him knowing his problems is beyond me!

I feel for Trengove in particular, you wouldn't see Port playing Wines on the wing

Trengove is a genuine inside mid, his pace won't be exposed if he is inside the contest winning the ball

Cant get to those contests Sir Has trouble keeping up

Tmac is luck he is a decent key defender cos his kicking is terrible and decision making not much better.

Needs to work on kicking all summer - otherwise he is Warnock Mark 2 (albeit with more natural talent)

Cant get to those contests Sir Has trouble keeping up

lets hope he finds a bit more speed when he comes back from his injury

Yeah wait until he has a good preseason Just because he was great at junior level doesnt mean anything at the top level

true, but it shows he has those skills there somewhere, so it's more about transferring them to the top level than developing them from the ground up

Delist

Bail: can't kick.

Terlich: can't kick and panics after making dumb decision.

Blease: has pace, can't kick and a lions player ran away from him when he needed to chase.

Nicho: can't kick.

Tmac is luck he is a decent key defender cos his kicking is terrible and decision making not much better.

Garland and Grimes need to more hard over summer too.

Id field offers for Garlo and Grimes.. Time to get mercenary/

TMac worries me still.. 50% greatness . 50% sub par abilities ( skills and decisions ) ...needs to change !!

Id field offers for Garlo and Grimes.. Time to get mercenary/

TMac worries me still.. 50% greatness . 50% sub par abilities ( skills and decisions ) ...needs to change !!

Garland is UFA at the end of 2015.

Lets not have another Frawley year in 2015.

Resign him now or put him up for trade this year.

Get something while the opportunity exists.

Garland is UFA at the end of 2015.

Lets not have another Frawley year in 2015.

Resign him now or put him up for trade this year.

Get something while the opportunity exists.

I think this might happen more and more OD, contract talks start earlier so teams can trade players rather than lose them as FA, especially if the compensation picks get taken away

I'd even think of playing Fitzy in the last couple of games and dangle him around as trade bait ?

Freo gambled on Gumbleton ?

I'd even think of playing Fitzy in the last couple of games and dangle him around as trade bait ?

Freo gambled on Gumbleton ?

Gumbleton has much higher pedigree than Fitz, I don't think he has the currency some people hope he does.

I'm also flabbergasted that Trengove is being spoken about as genuinely tradeable. The poor bloke has barely played this year, was terrific early in his career and has just been hobbled by an underlying issue which we're now trying to fix. Several things in relation to that, you don't trade away your 2nd pick after investing a sh!tload in finally getting his body right. Secondly, how much currency do you think he has after a navicular injury the recovery of which other clubs have no idea about..?

Delist: Blease, Strauss, Tapscott, Fitz, Nicho.

Treading finely: Terlich, Grimes, Trengove.

There would be others in the VFL I'd sweep out the door.

Evans, Bail and McKenzie I'd persist with for the moment.

Gumbleton has much higher pedigree than Fitz, I don't think he has the currency some people hope he does.

I'm also flabbergasted that Trengove is being spoken about as genuinely tradeable. The poor bloke has barely played this year, was terrific early in his career and has just been hobbled by an underlying issue which we're now trying to fix. Several things in relation to that, you don't trade away your 2nd pick after investing a sh!tload in finally getting his body right. Secondly, how much currency do you think he has after a navicular injury the recovery of which other clubs have no idea about..?

After the Clark experience I am not sure we know a lot either.

IMO if you leave out half a dozen kids there are only four players that are exempt from being traded given the right deal.

They were talking about Toumpas on the couch last night - Supposedly Lloyd believed that the Toump was the stand out in that draft.....

Must be seeing something we're all not.

THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!! grrrrrrrrr.

He was a standout in that draft - that was at TAC level and playing seniors in SANFL. That's where people saw it !!!!!

He is now not playing in that competition - he is playing AFL.

It needs to be understood that just because you are top notch junior doesn't necessarily mean you will be a top notch AFL footballer - just ask Tom Scully.

(for the record - I have no idea if Toumpas will or won't make it - I think one and half seasons is not an adequate time to judge. Scully - I believe that by 23/24 you havent made it the odds of making it are not in your favor)

THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!! grrrrrrrrr.

He was a standout in that draft - that was at TAC level and playing seniors in SANFL. That's where people saw it !!!!!

He is now not playing in that competition - he is playing AFL.

It needs to be understood that just because you are top notch junior doesn't necessarily mean you will be a top notch AFL footballer - just ask Tom Scully.

(for the record - I have no idea if Toumpas will or won't make it - I think one and half seasons is not an adequate time to judge. Scully - I believe that by 23/24 you havent made it the odds of making it are not in your favor)

Agree nutbean there are plenty of juniors selected in the top 20 every year that do not make it at senior level and plenty outside that group that do.

Being a top junior does not guarantee you will automatically be top level senior.

Why do people talk about Scully like he's a massive bust, how ridiculous. He had some really quality games in the middle of this year, is repeatedly picking up 20 or more possessions and routinely makes 5 or more tackles a game. I'd take that any day (take what he gets paid out of it, its irrelevant).

From my point of view, being a gun at TAC and SANFL would typically be a pretty good indicator.. not always, but typically.

Why do people talk about Scully like he's a massive bust, how ridiculous. He had some really quality games in the middle of this year, is repeatedly picking up 20 or more possessions and routinely makes 5 or more tackles a game. I'd take that any day (take what he gets paid out of it, its irrelevant).

From my point of view, being a gun at TAC and SANFL would typically be a pretty good indicator.. not always, but typically.

I don't think Scully is a bust, he is where I thought he'd be at.

Scully was a level below Martin and Trengove in the champs.

I think it's human nature that once we decide on something - it is sometimes hard to change our minds.

We then look for reasons to justify our choice, I relate that to Scully.

The form of Dustin Martin at the time was smacking us in the face - we just chose to ignore it.

The Scully hype even landed him a multi million dollar deal, but on actual performance he falls short - and from what I've seen has always fallen short of the best.

Trengove and Martin were easy calls for mine.

Wines was an easy call last year.

This year I'd take Brawshaw before Petracca.

Without being overly happy about taking either. I'd prefer to trade for an established player.

Why do people talk about Scully like he's a massive bust, how ridiculous. He had some really quality games in the middle of this year, is repeatedly picking up 20 or more possessions and routinely makes 5 or more tackles a game. I'd take that any day (take what he gets paid out of it, its irrelevant).

From my point of view, being a gun at TAC and SANFL would typically be a pretty good indicator.. not always, but typically.

The problem is he is getting paid $1+ million PA

To justify that money you need to putting in Buddy or Ablett performances not average results.

Not only that, but McKenzie is potentially the ready-made replacement for Cross when his body does eventually give out. Unless he gets passed before the end of the year by the likes of Michie & Riley, who can play a similar tough uncompromising type of game, he'll probably stay for another year or two.

Allison's emphases in the Scorps' reviews are (1) "defensive transition" (which I take to mean manning up when the opposition wins the ball, or "two-way running" if you prefer) and (2) ball use. These factors seem to be the "non-negotiables", and it seems at this stage that "defensive transition" is more important than ball use.

McKenzie and Nicholson are having to work on their ball use, but their defensive transition seems to satisfy the coaches.

It seems to me that the ones who are struggling with "defensive transition" are in more trouble at this stage - this would include Blease, Evans, Harmes, Hunt, Kent (surprisingly), Michie (ditto), and probably Strauss & Tapscott. But improving defensive transition is surely just a matter of effort, so these guys have half a season to put in the effort required to hang around.

Cross is four times the player that McKenzie will ever be IMO.

The problem is he is getting paid $1+ million PA

To justify that money you need to putting in Buddy or Ablett performances not average results.

If people are talking about scully "making it" then what he gets paid is beside the point. He's made it.

The problem is he is getting paid $1+ million PA

To justify that money you need to putting in Buddy or Ablett performances not average results.

Not disagreeing but given GWS have $1m more in their salary cap than anyone else, they can afford to pay 150% what any given player deserves. It's a joke but that's the AFL for ya.

Will take until 2019 for GWS to have a normal salary cap like every other team, and even then the AFL will change the rules if it means protecting their precious expansion clubs.

Not disagreeing but given GWS have $1m more in their salary cap than anyone else, they can afford to pay 150% what any given player deserves. It's a joke but that's the AFL for ya.

Will take until 2019 for GWS to have a normal salary cap like every other team, and even then the AFL will change the rules if it means protecting their precious expansion clubs.

I don't disagree but I still think that Scully is still well over paid even allowing for their salary cap.

Is he worth the same as Ablett?