Any thoughts?

As far as the St Kilda match went, we were clearly "out-niggled"...

This seemed to be a focus by the Saints under Richardson (as far as Round 1 was concerned) and while there may seem to be other priorities for us to focus on at this stage, I'd say it was pretty effective in getting us "off our game."

There were a lot of stray knees and elbows coming from the saints players, I saw Howe and Vince targetted numerous times in particular, and at times what looked like outright blatant attempts to cause injuries to our players.

We were bullied, and whilst we didn't lose our heads, I think it influenced the result.

Is it something we try to do? Outside of Dunn, can't think of too many in the past who'd have engaged in these tactics.

Should we? Is it part of the game that we have ignored too much?

Should we attempt to take the higher road and avoid such tactics?

Haha not sure if serious...

Last time I looked "niggle" wasn't even a stat...

Haha not sure if serious...

Last time I looked "niggle" wasn't even a stat...

Think he meant 'giggle'. Maybe 'wiggle'.

we clearly didn't kick straight or take our opportunities, if we took even half of the easy chances we missed we would have won the game easily.

Bernie was hit in the kidneys after he attempted a spoil and I'm pretty sure he remonstrated with "the player" as the siren sounded some time later, he threw a right cross deliberately designed to miss but to let the other guy know what would happen if he did it again.

Any thoughts?

As far as the St Kilda match went, we were clearly "out-niggled"...

This seemed to be a focus by the Saints under Richardson (as far as Round 1 was concerned) and while there may seem to be other priorities for us to focus on at this stage, I'd say it was pretty effective in getting us "off our game."

There were a lot of stray knees and elbows coming from the saints players, I saw Howe and Vince targetted numerous times in particular, and at times what looked like outright blatant attempts to cause injuries to our players.

We were bullied, and whilst we didn't lose our heads, I think it influenced the result.

Is it something we try to do? Outside of Dunn, can't think of too many in the past who'd have engaged in these tactics.

Should we? Is it part of the game that we have ignored too much?

Should we attempt to take the higher road and avoid such tactics?

No, you've got a point. Just a small example, if one of our players was trying to get up off the grass, they made a point of pushing him back down, at times repeatedly. Don't know why it's not done more often.

We're horrible at that sort of stuff - always have been, always will be. When we try to go hard at it, something goes wrong (best example: Trengove & sling tackle).

Clearly this is over the head of some people...

No, you've got a point. Just a small example, if one of our players was trying to get up off the grass, they made a point of pushing him back down, at times repeatedly. Don't know why it's not done more often.

We're horrible at that sort of stuff - always have been, always will be. When we try to go hard at it, something goes wrong (best example: Trengove & sling tackle).

Exactly. Not once.

Repeatedly, and by 2 or 3 players.

Especially when it was Vince.

They went well out of their way to do it.

I also saw a few casual elbows thrown, and knees dropped into tackles, or angled to create corkies.

Underhanded tactics, if you ask me, but it is a man's game.

Your a champion at the personal attacks on fellow demon supporters. Well done buddy.

Your a champion at the personal attacks on fellow demon supporters. Well done buddy.

I know you're generally ignorant, but did you notice he first few responses didn't seem to understand the point of the OP?

I'll leave it there. Jog on.

Jones got an elbow to the head when he tackled someone as well. And I haven't seen the replay of how Fitzy concussed himself.

Should we engage in niggling - maybe but it has to be against the right opponents and not distract from the focus of winning the game.

Should we take every opportunity to lay a big bump or tackle with force - yes!

And should we get some of our stronger harder guys to fix up taggers and those engaging in niggle - definitely.

At times I've called for a line in the sand game to really toughen some of this lot up. That's probably silly. Same with the idea someone had of recruiting Campbell Brown. But I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more aggression and anger from the players. Viney and Hogan should help, even Dawes isn't a hard guy but he's a big strong body who won't take a step back. Spencer is getting angry. Gawn doesn't mind it. Plus we have guys like Cross, Vince and Tyson who might not dish it out but can still win the ball under pressure, same for Grimes and Terlich.

I don't have high hopes for it but getting Tapscott up to AFL standard so we have a guy who isn't afraid to dish a bit of hard stuff out wouldn't hurt. But footy comes first.

Confidence is clearly part of a good young side. If serve up some off the ball physical stuff it can help you back it up when the ball is in play. Loved GWS serving it up to Franklin and the Swans.

If you want to see niggle as it is called look at the treatment dished out to Dangerfield against the Cats. I bet he was stiff and sore the next day. Buffeted, pushed and crashed into at every opportunity. There were accusations years ago of a particular footballer who had a reputation for keeping his knees up and corking opponents (cannot remember his name). I just put Saturday down a very aggressive approach by the Saints.

Jones got an elbow to the head when he tackled someone as well. And I haven't seen the replay of how Fitzy concussed himself.

Should we engage in niggling - maybe but it has to be against the right opponents and not distract from the focus of winning the game.

Should we take every opportunity to lay a big bump or tackle with force - yes!

And should we get some of our stronger harder guys to fix up taggers and those engaging in niggle - definitely.

At times I've called for a line in the sand game to really toughen some of this lot up. That's probably silly. Same with the idea someone had of recruiting Campbell Brown. But I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more aggression and anger from the players. Viney and Hogan should help, even Dawes isn't a hard guy but he's a big strong body who won't take a step back. Spencer is getting angry. Gawn doesn't mind it. Plus we have guys like Cross, Vince and Tyson who might not dish it out but can still win the ball under pressure, same for Grimes and Terlich.

I don't have high hopes for it but getting Tapscott up to AFL standard so we have a guy who isn't afraid to dish a bit of hard stuff out wouldn't hurt. But footy comes first.

Confidence is clearly part of a good young side. If serve up some off the ball physical stuff it can help you back it up when the ball is in play. Loved GWS serving it up to Franklin and the Swans.

My Family sponsor's Tappy, I was talking to him at the season launch and he said that he loves to play hard football but you get umpired out of games unless you hit the right way it's very easy to get booked or free kicked if you go too hard nowadays. I reckon that's one of his problems he just can't play the way he always has.

Brad Miller was never the same after he got booked a few times for going hard in to packs.

I think it will come. At this stage the coaching staff will be drilling footy fundamentals into them Playing unsociably can misfire on a young team and they can lose focus, when their primary focus needs to be getting the footy and putting it through the sticks.

angled to create corkies.

Underhanded tactics, if you ask me, but it is a man's game.

I thought I saw this as well during the telecast and thought I was seeing things and being paranoid.

YOU PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN DUNN [censored] FOR THIS SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL! NOW YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T DO IT ENOUGH!?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

PS: Check my post history. I've been Lynden Dunn's biggest fan since day dot.

Posts about Dunn which were "liked" by Machsy:

"His niggle never puts the opposition off, it's just for his own inflated ego and is crap."

"in the mean time he should focus on actually playing football." (suggesting he stop niggling).

"Someone has finally tried to rid him of his false bravado"

And a quote from Machsy himself:

"But his senior influence on the side saps a lot of our drive."

Now you're saying you want more of our players to do it?

Nope, just pointing out that I think it had an influence on the result in Round 1, and it was worth discussing.

Dunn's form of niggle has always been a bit pathetic, and he isn't really hard at all.

His niggle comes across as an annoyance, not as a bullying tactic or psychological warfare.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting Dunn to focus on being a better player and worrying about niggling second.

The first quote indicates I didn't think his niggling was effective.

And my comment about him sapping our drive is from last season, and not concerning anything to do with niggling.

It was in regards to his tendency to go for the "safe" option of a backwards kick or handball, sapping momentum out of the back half.

Under Roos we have seen Dunn use his long kicking a lot more to be adventurous and drive the ball out of the backline.

So... Yeah, I've not a clue what your problem is.

But this discussion is designed to be neither pro nor anti niggling.

It's simply identifying its use in Round 1, and the possibility of discussing its pros and cons.

No, you've got a point. Just a small example, if one of our players was trying to get up off the grass, they made a point of pushing him back down, at times repeatedly. Don't know why it's not done more often.

We're horrible at that sort of stuff - always have been, always will be. When we try to go hard at it, something goes wrong (best example: Trengove & sling tackle).

Bring back Rodney Grinter.

YOU PEOPLE HAVE GIVEN DUNN [censored] FOR THIS SINCE TIME IMMEMORIAL! NOW YOU'RE SAYING WE DON'T DO IT ENOUGH!?

I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

PS: Check my post history. I've been Lynden Dunn's biggest fan since day dot.

Dunn's pushing and shoving hasn't been effective when he didn't back it up by laying hard tackles or really attacking the ball. Of course it wasn't helped by his team mates not playing hard footy either. I, like most others, didn't think Dunn had done enough to go around trying to start fights when we are 10 goals down and he's had little influence on the game.

My Family sponsor's Tappy, I was talking to him at the season launch and he said that he loves to play hard football but you get umpired out of games unless you hit the right way it's very easy to get booked or free kicked if you go too hard nowadays. I reckon that's one of his problems he just can't play the way he always has.

Brad Miller was never the same after he got booked a few times for going hard in to packs.

As long as he isn't stupid he's unlikely to cop too many suspensions. I'd advise him to play his natural game if I was coach. Can always scale things back later but at least when he is playing he'd be doing well.

21 games left, plenty of time for him to make an impact this season. I hope Roos can develop players out at Casey as well as the 22 who play each week.

GWS have certainly adopted it.