Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[jnrmac 20,053]

The EFC is a work place. The players are employees and as such are entitled to protection under WorkSafe.

The EFC have failed to protect their employees from who knows what. They must be found guilty.

I would hate to think what would happen to me and my business if I sent my employees across the road for injections once a week (to help them work) and kept no records. I think I may very well be in jail today.

From WorkSafe Vic site. http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/laws-and-regulations/employer-rights-and-responsibilities

Employees must.

• keep information and records relevant to your workers' health and safety (such as records of biological monitoring, asbestos assessments, first aid records and relevant medical information)
• employ or engage people with the necessary qualifications or expertise to advise you on health and safety issues affecting your workers
• consult with employees on matters that may directly affect their health, safety or welfare. Where the employees are represented by a health and safety representative (HSR), the HSR must also be involved in the consultation
• nominate a senior management representative (or yourself) to deal with workers and their health and safety representatives in resolving health and safety issues at the workplace
• Penalties

  Penalties for breaches of the Occupational Health & Safety Act 2004 were substantially increased. The maximum penalties are now $1,075,050* for a body corporate END of WorkCover paste.

This is per breach! times 34 players then times how many injections?

And Directors face huge liabilities as well....

WTF are they waiting for??

[45HG 1,539]

If you follow the 'logic trail' through its natural extension to its conclusion, even there you'll find a bleak story for the EFC IMO.

Potentially there was a 'deal' for the players - if they can prove they were duped. For that deal to be upheld, ASADA would then have clear evidence that an entire sporting organisation deliberately tricked 34 individuals into being injected dozens of times with illegal supplements. The only recourse from there would be to turf the entire club from the league I'd have thought - for at least a period of time.

No wonder the players can't follow that line - if they do they'll be out of a job.

Disgusting situation that that club has brought upon our game (not that I don't think other teams have straddled too closely to the line, but I'd like to think that most other teams would have dealt with the situation with a modicum of grace and best interests of its players and the game at heart).

[beelzebub 23,313]

If events lead down the inevitable path that looms it will be

Essendon Football CLub 1871 - 2014

I cant really see any other result personally

[deanox 9,896]

I think there is a clear misunderstanding here from Essendon and particularly the players. Not the misunderstanding we all already know about, but regarding the show cause notices.

Up til now, the players have cooperated. ASADA have gathered all the available evidence and have a pretty good understanding of what they believe happened, and believe they can defend that understanding.

They believe a banned substance was administered.

Because they believe this, they must issue show cause notices. This notice asks players to provide their response to the allegations surrounding use. This is where the misunderstanding is. The players and Essendon seem to think ASADA should have just gone away because they cooperated. But they need to respond to the show cause notices.

The players still have an out. They respond to the show cause notices saying:

"I do not know if I was injected with a banned substance. I was assured all substances were legal according to WADA. I asked my doctor to check and he assured me they did. I asked for that in writing, and it was provided. I believe I did my due dilligence to ensure any substance administered was legal according to the WADA code. If it is proved that I was administered a banned substance this is through no fault of my own and I went above and beyond what I normally would to ensure the substane was legal."

ASADA can then review the eveidence, and issue an infraction notice for use. The AFL in conjunction with ASADA can then apply a penalty discount on the "no fault" or "no significant" fault clauses.

Even if a deal WAS made that the players would get off, this process would still be required IF they were found to have taken a banned substance.

I see it as being somewhat similar (although not exactly the same) as a self defence in a murder case. The police typically still lay the charge then the defendant shows why it was self defence and the court answers accordingly. The police don't walk up to the scene of the crime, take the knife from your hand and let you walk away. (OK I know that isn't a perfect analogy but I think it works)

I also believe there may be some confusion between what was "a deal" and what was ASADA trying to outline to Essendon players why it would be worth their while to cooperate from the start. If no cooperation was forthcoming it was unlikely to accept a no fault or no significant fault defence.

[deanox 9,896]

If events lead down the inevitable path that looms it will be

Essendon Football CLub 1871 - 2014

I cant really see any other result personally

I agree somewhat.

IF they have players banned, I imagine they'll have 34 law suits. I am not sure what insurance will cover in the face of this sort of negligence, does anyone else know more about this sort of thing?

[beelzebub 23,313]

I agree somewhat.

IF they have players banned, I imagine they'll have 34 law suits. I am not sure what insurance will cover in the face of this sort of negligence, does anyone else know more about this sort of thing?

The potential for penalties can go as far as :

A dozen to 20 odd of current list ( depending on co-operations ) banned for 2 years

The Club being scrubbed from league also for a possible 2 years ( at least )

Club and Directors on receiving end of MASSIVE financial penalties.

Sponsors deserting at light speed.

Someone will seek to wind up the club...... end of story

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

Bring down the axe. Hard.

[deanox 9,896]

The potential for penalties can go as far as :

A dozen to 20 odd of current list ( depending on co-operations ) banned for 2 years

The Club being scrubbed from league also for a possible 2 years ( at least )

Club and Directors on receiving end of MASSIVE financial penalties.

Sponsors deserting at light speed.

Someone will seek to wind up the club...... end of story

I meant, if the players bring civil suits against the club for any combination of "unsafe work place", "administering bannd substances which prematurely ended my playing career", "lost earnings" (both as a player, and future career), "damaged reputation", "pain and suffering" etc. will the club be responsible to pay all claims out of its own pockets, or will insurance cover them? I assume the doctor would have the appropriate professional idemnity insurance, but Hird, Dank and Co, won't.

I imagine a player like Jobe Watson, if banned, would be in the box seat to win a claim against the club on the above for millions in lost earnings etc. particularly if stripped of a Brownlow and misses a year or two of AFL pay, follwed by damage to his potential post-playing career. Watson might not, because Essendon might mean more to him than money, and he and family are well off already.

If I was a small/mid time player earning a couple of hundred K and this was currently affecting my playing and future career, and there was a chance this would be settled for 500+ k, that would certainly set up the rest of my life.

If 34 players put a case in after being banned the club will certainly fold.

[beelzebub 23,313]

I meant, if the players bring civil suits against the club for any combination of "unsafe work place", "administering bannd substances which prematurely ended my playing career", "lost earnings" (both as a player, and future career), "damaged reputation", "pain and suffering" etc. will the club be responsible to pay all claims out of its own pockets, or will insurance cover them? I assume the doctor would have the appropriate professional idemnity insurance, but Hird, Dank and Co, won't.

I imagine a player like Jobe Watson, if banned, would be in the box seat to win a claim against the club on the above for millions in lost earnings etc. particularly if stripped of a Brownlow and misses a year or two of AFL pay, follwed by damage to his potential post-playing career. Watson might not, because Essendon might mean more to him than money, and he and family are well off already.

If I was a small/mid time player earning a couple of hundred K and this was currently affecting my playing and future career, and there was a chance this would be settled for 500+ k, that would certainly set up the rest of my life.

If 34 players put a case in after being banned the club will certainly fold.

we're on the same page mate

Mine was a brief precis.

Currently they EFC ( as a whole or its players and constituents) face penalties from ASADA, in some form the AFL and WorkSafe ( this will be like a Mack truck when it eventuates ). Once the dam breaks and players are given the choice of which sword they wish to fall on I concur with your thoughts that one almighty bun fight will eventually break out and the club will be unable to hold back the wave after wave of litigation.

If a class action was brought against the club ( I see this as inevitably probable ) then the club would need to be wound up to service the winfalls to the players.

There a dead club walking

[monoccular 17,411]

The EFC is a work place. The players are employees and as such are entitled to protection under WorkSafe.

The EFC have failed to protect their employees from who knows what. They must be found guilty.

I would hate to think what would happen to me and my business if I sent my employees across the road for injections once a week (to help them work) and kept no records. I think I may very well be in jail today.

From WorkSafe Vic site. http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/laws-and-regulations/employer-rights-and-responsibilities

Employees must.

• keep information and records relevant to your workers' health and safety (such as records of biological monitoring, asbestos assessments, first aid records and relevant medical information)
• employ or engage people with the necessary qualifications or expertise to advise you on health and safety issues affecting your workers
• consult with employees on matters that may directly affect their health, safety or welfare. Where the employees are represented by a health and safety representative (HSR), the HSR must also be involved in the consultation
• nominate a senior management representative (or yourself) to deal with workers and their health and safety representatives in resolving health and safety issues at the workplace

• Penalties

  Penalties for breaches of the Occupational Health & Safety Act 2004 were substantially increased. The maximum penalties are now $1,075,050* for a body corporate END of WorkCover paste.

This is per breach! times 34 players then times how many injections?

The "Company" EFC and more particularly its directors must surely be in deep deep merde.

Directors normally take out, or the company does in their behalf, multi million dollars in directors' insurance, but potentially this could be absolutely massive.

The potential for penalties can go as far as :

A dozen to 20 odd of current list ( depending on co-operations ) banned for 2 years

The Club being scrubbed from league also for a possible 2 years ( at least )

Club and Directors on receiving end of MASSIVE financial penalties.

Sponsors deserting at light speed.

Someone will seek to wind up the club...... end of story

Will Hird, as an employee and (presumably) not a director be in the same part if the firing line? Maybe he will try to squirm his way out claiming he was an employee obeying orders. I doubt however if that could succeed - Nürenberg put that defence out of the park 60+ years ago.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Hird wasnt doing the clubs beckoning, EFC were his tool.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think that might indicate where the leaks bombed from. Also that investigation within ASADA provides yet another reason why ASADA has taken a long time. Easy to impatiently criticise them but it is clear that had a mammoth task with piddling resources.

hmmn, sounds like peacock feathers, Sue.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Id be very interested to learn from any Legal Beagle here how appropriate it might be to look at Hird and Cohorts wrt :

Reckless Endangerment as It applies to OH&S

Could Criminal action be brought against them ?

[chookrat 4,247]

The "Company" EFC and more particularly its directors must surely be in deep deep merde.

Directors normally take out, or the company does in their behalf, multi million dollars in directors' insurance, but potentially this could be absolutely massive.

Will Hird, as an employee and (presumably) not a director be in the same part if the firing line? Maybe he will try to squirm his way out claiming he was an employee obeying orders. I doubt however if that could succeed - Nürenberg put that defence out of the park 60+ years ago.

Given the major issue was a failure in governance I'd expect the head of the footy department and up would face litigation. As arrogant as hird is he is an employee and while he has a duty of care to the players this was a massive governance failure that goes above his position in the hierarchy.

[beelzebub 23,313]

But Chookrat, I think it may be proven eventually that the club was effectively acting upon Hird's plans. He wasnt following orders, he was writing them !!!

[dee-luded 2,959]

Farcical. The Nuremberg trials were quicker than this. No joking.

could it be that the Bummers punishment will be to miss the finals, 2 years running??? One year done formally & publicly; the other year done Via stealth??

No!!! couldn't 'B'... could it !

Now, Infraction Notices can come, & then go... not worth the used 300 Year old Tasmanian Wood Pulp, that the notices will be typed onto. no physical evidence can be produced, one would imagine.

... a public ridiculing of the Players, who had (cough) injections, but then after some sort of A Cangaroo Court Case,,, a lack of hard evidence will, just as surely as a Buddy Home Video 'FLYING HIGH', see that the players walk away from the 'Court, of no Return'.

Edited June 24, 2014 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

A pup ?

Why.

Whats about to occur is the opening of Pandoras Box. No one is sure of the real fallout or knockons from this.

Despite the Leagues pandering and the clubs continued stance the whole fabric of club-player relationship is about to be tested at its very core.

What is said now by the affected parties will eventually be meaningless as self interests come to the fore.

more like a Box of Panadol.... or a packet of BEX. & a script, for a good lie, down.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Sue, my gut feel is that we are being sold a pup. Hopefully I'm wrong but I suspect I'm not.

that PuP you referred to is growing, & can bark loud now.

[Whispering_Jack 29,753]

Never a deal between AFL and doping agency

Patrick Smith has just made a monkey out of fellow Australian newspaper employee Chip Le Grand whose articles are nothing more than pro-Essendon agitprop and should be ignored because they are cr@p.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Patrick Smith has just made a monkey out of fellow Australian newspaper employee Chip Le Grand whose articles are nothing more than pro-Essendon agitprop and should be ignored because they are cr@p.

in all honesty....thats not news

[dee-luded 2,959]

How unlucky was that poor [censored]? Not attached to a power club, not a big name - he is hung out to dry. Total bull shite!! Apparently the drink was legal on some days but not others!!! It is beyond belief!!

Xactly

[dee-luded 2,959]

Must admit feel for the players but hope it is the end of that arch egotist and pretty boy Hird.

Hopefully HIRD will Get It, in the End... at a later Date.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Well said, Essendon's hierarchy which precided over the program betrayed the players. For the good of sport the players must be banned if they breached the WADA code even though they were let down so badly by their club.

agreed, but try telling that to the payers association. & get a smile outa them?

[dee-luded 2,959]

the sad day for football was when the likes of Hird and his henchment set out to rort the game.

Today is a GOOD day for football as it seeks to punish those who disregard the health of some and the best interests of the many.

F**K essendon

exactly blzb

[chookrat 4,247]

But Chookrat, I think it may be proven eventually that the club was effectively acting upon Hird's plans. He wasnt following orders, he was writing them !!!

History will tell that Hird was the one armed man on the grassy nole.