I expect Neeld knows how to coach, but he does not know how to motivate players who don't conform to a certain personality type.

And not all about coaching is science based - it's people based too. In this context, Scoop Junior's just got to be right on this - the coach is also responsible for the 'effort' displayed on the field each week.

Good post, Ron but I need to challenge you on the above.

Knowing how to coach means knowing how to motivate your team to achieve your KPI's and longer term goals. Time and time again this season we've seen us come up short of achieveing set KPI's such as tackles in this last game against GCS.

Neeld might know the game intimately and understands all facets of structuring, zoning, pressing etc but he obviously can't convey the message to the group and that is an absolute key component of being an effective coach. To motivate your people. Neeld never had this direct responsibility at the Pies. I can't comment on his Ocean Grove days but the two leagues are poles apart in terms of pressure and mental preparation.

If you can't get the boys up for game day or manage to stem the bleeding once it starts then your time is up.

Dawes' article for me was just more rhetoric and boring shizen to come from a disillusioned playing group. They're defeated by his mediocre standards just like I am.

titan - being pedantic, but I assume "this week" doesn't include post-match, because "we didn't see it coming" is a direct quote out of the presser, only this time it came from Nate Jones.

Maybe next week Jonesy can remind everyone that we're in a development phase and that Richmond were more experienced. If he ticks off those two points, Neeld won't even need to attend.

Oops.

Well, even so, at least since the game, we've seemingly made more of an effort to own up to our failings, as opposed to simply not seeing it coming.

Oops.

Well, even so, at least since the game, we've seemingly made more of an effort to own up to our failings, as opposed to simply not seeing it coming.

Perhaps they need glasses?

They don't see things coming, they miss kick constantly, they miss stackles, and hand pass to someone who has their opponent next to them.

The answer may well be that they cannot see.

Perhaps we should change ours colours to luminious green!

The players are not enjoying playing football.

Also stop going on about flower he was a good player but how many finals did he play in?

The players are not enjoying playing football.

Also stop going on about flower he was a good player but how many finals did he play in?

Ugh. While you are at it look up Bobby Skilton's career and work out why he is in the AFL Team of the Century after playing only one final (his last game)

The players are not enjoying playing football.

Also stop going on about flower he was a good player but how many finals did he play in?

Goose

Sick of hearing about 'line in the sand' 'players need to take responsibility' etc etc

Talk is cheap. At no point in the last 6 years have we, when faced with a critical game to redeem ourselves, played with any intensity whatsoever except for maybe the Ess game last year.

The players need to take a lot of heat because their efforts are deplorable.

Stop talking. Just run run and tackle.

Good post, Ron but I need to challenge you on the above.

Knowing how to coach means knowing how to motivate your team to achieve your KPI's and longer term goals. Time and time again this season we've seen us come up short of achieveing set KPI's such as tackles in this last game against GCS.

Neeld might know the game intimately and understands all facets of structuring, zoning, pressing etc but he obviously can't convey the message to the group and that is an absolute key component of being an effective coach. To motivate your people. Neeld never had this direct responsibility at the Pies. I can't comment on his Ocean Grove days but the two leagues are poles apart in terms of pressure and mental preparation.

If you can't get the boys up for game day or manage to stem the bleeding once it starts then your time is up.

Dawes' article for me was just more rhetoric and boring shizen to come from a disillusioned playing group. They're defeated by his mediocre standards just like I am.

If players cannot get themselves "UP"on match day then why are they there ?? Professional athletes should not need someone to motivate them/get the adrenalin flowing !! It means they do not have the right mindset , attitude or natural ability etc. IF they know how to play the game, follow simple instructions from the coach and just go out there and appiy their trade, then why do they need to be driven, molly coddled and coaxed into performing something that should just come natural at the TOP level..... If this is not happening then they need to look elsewhere because they are obviously in the wrong "game". As much as many people may not agree with Sam Newman in some areas, I myself have always agreed with his point (which he has raised many times on The Footy Show) that if a player at AFL Senior level needs to be motivated by some event or prompting, in order to go out on the field and produce his best , then there is something wrong with his mental attitude and he maybe shouldn't be there....NO coach should be responsible for that part of a Players game !! I am NOT defending Mark Neeld but am merely putting forward a point .Coaches cannot play the game for each player...whilst I agree that tactics, game plans etc are the coaches responsibilities.

The players are not enjoying playing football.

Also stop going on about flower he was a good player but how many finals did he play in?

Flower was probably in the top five footballers ever to play with the Dees and asking how many finals he played is totally irrelevant.I for another, respect what he has to say and agree with a lot of his posts (but not all) He is most likely better credentialled than 90 percent of those posting on DL and questioning someone who you feel is "going on" about him is a bit lame.. I only wish MOST of our current list had ten percent of his ability and football nous and loved this club a fraction as much as he does. We would never be where we are now.

If players cannot get themselves "UP"on match day then why are they there ?? Professional athletes should not need someone to motivate them/get the adrenalin flowing !! It means they do not have the right mindset , attitude or natural ability etc. IF they know how to play the game, follow simple instructions from the coach and just go out there and appiy their trade, then why do they need to be driven, molly coddled and coaxed into performing something that should just come natural at the TOP level..... If this is not happening then they need to look elsewhere because they are obviously in the wrong "game". As much as many people may not agree with Sam Newman in some areas, I myself have always agreed with his point (which he has raised many times on The Footy Show) that if a player at AFL Senior level needs to be motivated by some event or prompting, in order to go out on the field and produce his best , then there is something wrong with his mental attitude and he maybe shouldn't be there....NO coach should be responsible for that part of a Players game !! I am NOT defending Mark Neeld but am merely putting forward a point .Coaches cannot play the game for each player...whilst I agree that tactics, game plans etc are the coaches responsibilities.

When you're down and out and getting belted every f...ing weekend you're coach needs to motivate you.

No offence, but what you offer is too simple.

Neelds game plan has sucked the confidence dry out of the players. They are regressing at a scary rate and he's unable to motivate them enough to execute what obviously isn't working.

When you're down and out and getting belted every f...ing weekend you're coach needs to motivate you.

No offence, but what you offer is too simple.

Neelds game plan has sucked the confidence dry out of the players. They are regressing at a scary rate and he's unable to motivate them enough to execute what obviously isn't working.

No offence taken.. But I feel the reason they are getting "belted" is because some of them are not up to this level... What I offer may be too simple but the game is not all that complicated if you have the ability to play at the top level.. Some MAKE it seem complicated... I do NOT believe the coach motivates players such as those who continually put in each week and become good to very good players..he may prompt them to play to his plan but not improve their mindset.. I feel I have no need to be motivated if I want to do something badly enough... One's personal determination (and capability) has a great deal to do with it ... My opinion...

"As a player, you don't like seeing bits of footage where you could have worked a bit harder.

"There were times when we were pretty soft."

Jude Bolton on the Swans last week. No mention there of Longmire not "getting them up" enough, the whole thrust of his comments comes back to the players - and lest we forget, this is a team with the kind of experience that we're not going to have for another 7 or 8 years.

You might be right about this Titan, however one thing i'd say is that perhaps the lack of effort is a subconscious (or even deliberate) protest by the players against the coach or even the club as a whole. If they are unhappy what other avenues do they have to tell the club? Remember the last time they collectively indicated they were unhappy with stuff happening at the club was prior to 186 and they saw how that turned out. They're not likely to volunteer their opinion now.

... the Effort thing is all Intensity & Belief... both of these are effected by our Culture.

We Have Not had a Take It On, Have a Red Hot Go, Physical type attitude for 15 odd years.... this is why in the 2000 GF the Bombers took it right up to Us; they new we were soft under the belly... & it was proven right.

and it never got any better since then. in fact worse.

# & this is why Neeld is sorting the list & building a new Onfield Culture. But from what I see, even he has underestimated just how fragile that remaining culture is... the New boys are the New breed of our club & will learn the New Values.

But Neeldy, the conservative part of the clubs character is a bigger leadweight than I think you envisioned..

that combination of a conservative natured, 'not make a noise type club' of 40+ years, with a soft easy going culture of 20 Years, is going to be tough to change...

the people already want to take the easy route now by sacking you.... thats the soft givein culture bellowing.... what R U doing??? your not a Big name elite Player,, Why should we believe You??? Why should we trust You???

.. give Em' the shortcut treatment like danners, & become the salesman, put some bandaids on the list & save your career.

.

Dawes and Clark on the park together will be good for this. They will control what others around them are doing and where they need to go. A clear advantage of bringing in an experienced midfielder into the team through FA or through aggressive trading, or both, is that we will add this direction to the midfield as well. Jones is a good player but he isn't a director of traffic.

Yep and this midfielder must also be able to handle a tag, as they will be and we aren't as yet good at helping a player being tagged. Which is my doubt on a Thomas trade, FA. I think he is a good player, but with Pendles and Swan in the team, how often is he tagged?We would have to pay him a fortune to get him and to me this is a big question mark.

Dawes' article sounds like he is paying the bills. Compare his article to Bob Murphy's excellent piece.http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-dream-that-never-dies-20130515-2jmx6.html

An interesting article, with a number of valid themes. Murphy will do well in the media, at the end of his career.

Great article. The irony, however, is that the Melbourne Demons would be the closest equivalents to the Boston Red Sox and the Chicago Cubs in the entire league - not the Western Bulldogs. Very similar DNA as clubs - essentially old school and unsuccessful/unlucky.

Totally agree Ron, but for me what does it is the Babe Ruth/ Ron Barassi dramas where both players left their clubs, one unwittingly, the other for financial and career reasons. In both cases the spirits of the two clubs were decimated and in our case, never recovered. Not that i am blaming Ron. As i see it, Melbourne remained a club with an amateur gentlemen's philosophy and the new, hungry clubs jealous of mfc's war-chest of premierships adopted a whatever it takes approach. And that was the way Ron operated.

If players cannot get themselves "UP"on match day then why are they there ?? Professional athletes should not need someone to motivate them/get the adrenalin flowing !! It means they do not have the right mindset , attitude or natural ability etc. IF they know how to play the game, follow simple instructions from the coach and just go out there and appiy their trade, then why do they need to be driven, molly coddled and coaxed into performing something that should just come natural at the TOP level..... If this is not happening then they need to look elsewhere because they are obviously in the wrong "game". As much as many people may not agree with Sam Newman in some areas, I myself have always agreed with his point (which he has raised many times on The Footy Show) that if a player at AFL Senior level needs to be motivated by some event or prompting, in order to go out on the field and produce his best , then there is something wrong with his mental attitude and he maybe shouldn't be there....NO coach should be responsible for that part of a Players game !! I am NOT defending Mark Neeld but am merely putting forward a point .Coaches cannot play the game for each player...whilst I agree that tactics, game plans etc are the coaches responsibilities.

As others have said mate, if only it was that simple. How do you explain for example, Geelong losing to Port at the Cattery and then a few weeks later smashing them in a grand final? Motivation is a very complex thing. Both coaches and players have a big part to play. To me it is never one or the other.

"As a player, you don't like seeing bits of footage where you could have worked a bit harder.

"There were times when we were pretty soft."

Jude Bolton on the Swans last week. No mention there of Longmire not "getting them up" enough, the whole thrust of his comments comes back to the players - and lest we forget, this is a team with the kind of experience that we're not going to have for another 7 or 8 years.

Poor example.

95% of the time the Swans' effort is impeccable. No team is ever going to have 100% effort 100% of the time - we are talking about human beings here.

Based on this year alone I reckon our effort levels wouldn't even be at 50%.

My point is that effort is not solely a player thing, and that a coach has a big influence on effort. Given Melbourne's inability to consistently put in the required effort this suggests to me that there are problems with the coach and his ability to instil the belief in the players.