Time to go Mark Neeld

[DEE fence 5,002]

Anyone remember Carlton, Pagan etc, the players, like DH Fevola, ran the show and buried a established coach, and several others. Yes we have gone backwards while we reset who our senior players are, they were good, had some skill but perhaps they were better soldiers than leaders, that said the shafting of Junior was a huge mistake, of the players that were changed. Moloney and Green I loved as players of the club but we weren't breaking down the doors of the top 8. Yes we have two young captains but the basis has been set that we will be fitter, we are talking footballers here, one skill set at a time, talking of the coach and whether he has lost the playing group is just stupid when we wanted a culture change and our now getting it. Take your effing medicine and stop believing in the snake oil quick fix BS that changing Neeld would be.

[Hannibal 5,814]

This question if for Ben-Hur and Rhino

So 'if' Neeld has lost the players - and I am assuming that statement is correct

Then do we have to replace the heads of the FD as well?

The answer lies in your question.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Time to go . . . James Hird. It's going to be Essendon for a while folks.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

I'm a know non-fan of Neeld, but even I say he should stay til CLOSE to the end of the season.

Caretakers are a waste of time, but if we can ditch Neeld a few weeks before the end of the season then we get a head start on recruiting the new guy for next year.

That is of course if having him doesn't effect re-signing some of our important players.

This is the biggest threat to teh clubs future , a one way exodus of the better players who cant see any future for them at MFC. i dont like the ideaof changing coach mid season as it wont achieve much on field and makes the club less attractive for any potential replacements. but then on the hand, by letting the season spiral down and down the players who are up for contract renewal dont have much reason to stick around. if oyu could say to them , look we have clarkson coming at the end of the year they might stick around but when they get told that the club will stand by Neeld, they muist think well F*&k , im outta here. the posters on here that dont think that is the bigest threat to the clubs future are delusional

[Hannibal 5,814]

stop believing in the snake oil quick fix BS that changing Neeld would be.

You actually think that those who don't support Neeld think that his removal will be a "quick fix" ? Where have you read that ? We know there's no "quick fix".

I believe that he should stay until there's a Roos type appointment. The damage has probably been done. If things got much worse a change might have to be made.

[stuie 7,374]

Time to go . . . James Hird. It's going to be Essendon for a while folks.

Haha what? You mean the team that's top of the ladder and 5-0. The team with supporters putting #standbyhird everywhere? The most clean cut footy person in history who will no doubt escape any sanctions for the Dank affair?

Pretty sure he has a bit more support than Neeld...

[Hannibal 5,814]

We can't sack him now, who will coach us? From all the training reports everything was going well. Hell one Ben Hur was getting very excited. Then reality strikes. It's not Neeld who blew all those top 20 picks, it's not Neeld that has picked the worst midfield in the comp. You do realise that without a functioning midfield a club has little hope in seeing any improvement. Our backs have gone backwards because the opposition waltz the ball past our midfield with so much ease its ridiculous. Lost the playing group? Where did they go? This is the remains of an ordinary group with a core of about 9 quality players, he'll at least get them fit and make them realise its not easy to be the best.

Funny. On more than one occasion you derided supporters for reading training reports. But in the same breath you acknowledge that you do. What a [censored].

The players have trained far better than previously, but what we've learnt is that dancing with your Sister is dancing with your Sister. Training has been far better and more professional, but clearly there isn't the same intensity.

And just as clearly Mark Neeld has learnt that his evaluation of training when compared to AFL intensity has been [censored] poor, as has mine. But more likely the players don't emotionally play for him.

But no doubt you'll be reading those same reports that you joke about next year, ****.

PS: I had to actually edit my noun - ****. And this poster is one. I was recently banned when I fully expected an expletive to be censored by the site's automatic function. For me it was easier to just type the expletive knowing that it would be censored. Silly me. It somehow appeared. But then I see the words [censored] and [censored], etc. go unpunished and I realise that the moderators are stupid flogs. Go figure. Even James Packer says it on prime time at 7pm on a Sunday night, but I get banned for an inadvertent appearance that escaped the site's quality control. And they let all these other narratives appear. As I said, they're stupid (moderators) flogs.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Ben-Hur

[stuie 7,374]

I was recently banned... I realise that the moderators are stupid flogs. As I said, they're stupid (moderators) flogs.

Errrrrrr..... probably not the best way to re-endear yourself BH.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Errrrrrr..... probably not the best way to re-endear yourself BH.

They can kiss my pastrudel, Stewart.

[Carrot Top 947]

Funny. On more than one occasion you derided supporters for reading training reports. But in the same breath you acknowledge that you do. What a [censored].

The players have trained far better than previously, but what we've learnt is that dancing with your Sister is dancing with your Sister. Training has been far better and more professional, but clearly there isn't the same intensity.

And just as clearly Mark Neeld has learnt that his evaluation of training when compared to AFL intensity has been [censored] poor, as has mine. But more likely the players don't emotionally play for him.

I might be wrong but I'm seeing a coach drinking his own bathwater. If you set up the forwards in a way you know will beat your own backline set up then what do you think will happen? If you set up your red mids to beat the blue mid set up then what do you think will happen?

Problem happens in round one when the other team doesn't set up the way you need them too, and you haven't the cattle, or the nous, or both to make the game be played on your terms. Then the players become lost because they are trained to do one thing but instinctively they know another way that is better.

Both years round one came as a huge surprise to Neeld. Both years we were killed tactically.

[stuie 7,374]

They can kiss my pastrudel, Stewart.

I'm foreseeing a short lifespan to this return BH.

Shame, you started out with some reasonable arguments, I even "liked" a couple of your posts, but your true nature has come out once again.

I don't understand why you would come back here if you hate the people that run the place, but that's your prerogative I guess.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I might be wrong but I'm seeing a coach drinking his own bathwater. If you set up the forwards in a way you know will beat your own backline set up then what do you think will happen? If you set up your red mids to beat the blue mid set up then what do you think will happen?

Problem happens in round one when the other team doesn't set up the way you need them too, and you haven't the cattle, or the nous, or both to make the game be played on your terms. Then the players become lost because they are trained to do one thing but instinctively they know another way that is better.

Both years round one came as a huge surprise to Neeld. Both years we were killed tactically.

I think there may be merit in what you say, but surely you've seen enough to deduce that it's more than tactics that are the issue ?

The players aren't emotionally engaged. If you think that one player would run through a brick wall for Mark Neeld you're delusional. Having read your posts I know you're not. There's no "buy in". I accept we're not good enough anyway, but there are far bigger playing issues.

The coach's job is to get the best out of his playing group. To get the best from what is at his disposal. Is there one forum member that believes he is ? Is there one poster that thinks he's improving individuals ? Are you there, Bob ?

[Adam The God 30,119]

We can't sack him now, who will coach us? From all the training reports everything was going well. Hell one Ben Hur was getting very excited. Then reality strikes. It's not Neeld who blew all those top 20 picks, it's not Neeld that has picked the worst midfield in the comp. You do realise that without a functioning midfield a club has little hope in seeing any improvement. Our backs have gone backwards because the opposition waltz the ball past our midfield with so much ease its ridiculous. Lost the playing group? Where did they go? This is the remains of an ordinary group with a core of about 9 quality players, he'll at least get them fit and make them realise its not easy to be the best.

There's a difference between lacking the cattle and being able to get players to adhere to basic football fundamentals. Tackling, chasing etc. Neeld has been unable to do this. Footballing ability does not come into the aforementioned fundamentals.

[Adam The God 30,119]

I think that if Neeld has lost the players, then keeping him is counter-productive.We gain nothing and potentially lose players that we need to keep.

That's the MAJOR reason I'd be appointing an interim coach if this continues. Getting someone like James Frawley signed to a longer deal must be a priority. One player doesn't make a team, but equally some lament Moloney's loss in the context of our midfield. Frawley would leave a gapping hole in our defence. We need someone who can galvanise this team and quickly. I don't expect us to start winning every game, but I do expect a coach that can motivate most, if not every player on the ground to deliver an AFL standard work rate.

Unfortunately, there's no doubt "this" will continue. If we get within 10 goals of Carlton this week, I will eat my proverbial hat.

[Johnny Karate 559]

The weekend's loss was a 10+ goal hiding masquerading as an "honorable" 28 point defeat. They massacred us everywhere but the scoreboard.

Brisbane played 6 teenagers, Jack Viney & Jimmy Toumpas miss their first crack at an interstate trip. It reeks of Bailey keeping Trengove & Scully in cotton wool for Geelong in 2010 (but at least he played Gysberts).

Is there a team in the league with less going for it right now than us? These results are untenable. The coach must go - results aside he has failed at the fundamental level of extracting any semblance of discipline, structure or competitive effort out of his team on matchday. It's hard to recall/imagine anybody else doing a worse job as coach.

[bing181 9,193]

These results are untenable. The coach must go - results aside he has failed at the fundamental level of extracting any semblance of discipline, structure or competitive effort out of his team on matchday. It's hard to recall/imagine anybody else doing a worse job as coach.

It's getting to be like some kind of competition, where posters try to outdo each other with the ridiculousness of their claims.

You don't kick 14 goals in a match without some semblance of discipline, structure and competitive effort. Our 14.10 is a higher score than Collingwood, St Kilda, Sydney, Fremantle, Richmond, Adelaide, The Bulldogs, Port, and West Coast could manage last round, and only a goal less than North and Hawthorn. Guess all those teams will have to sack their coaches as well.

[robbiefrom13 887]

We can't sack him now, who will coach us? From all the training reports everything was going well. Hell one Ben Hur was getting very excited. Then reality strikes. It's not Neeld who blew all those top 20 picks, it's not Neeld that has picked the worst midfield in the comp. You do realise that without a functioning midfield a club has little hope in seeing any improvement. Our backs have gone backwards because the opposition waltz the ball past our midfield with so much ease its ridiculous. Lost the playing group? Where did they go? This is the remains of an ordinary group with a core of about 9 quality players, he'll at least get them fit and make them realise its not easy to be the best.

so much bad arguing!

Neeld did not pick all those players, no, but he came to coach them. He was the midfield wizard at Collingwood.

Why have our backs gone backwards? Because our midfield has also gone backwards - our backs were playing better than this, with (mostly) the same midfielders... The ridiculous ease comes largely from our midfield positioning, lack of chasing, etc - things not entirely dependent on talent. The correct positioning and hard work that are lacking are things the coach should be addressing.

"Lost the playing group" is a serious suggestion, not to be dismissed with a flippant "Where did they go?"

Your criticism of the players ignores the distinction being drawn on this board between the players' talent/desire and the players' performances; a distinction that allows for the coach to be at least partly instrumental in causing the outcomes. In condemning the players, you are "begging the question" - advancing as an argument the very point that was up for debate: using as a proof the very point that the whole debate was trying to determine one way or the other. In such a discussion, a post arguing the way you do here is worthless, and only frustrates readers and clouds the issue.

As for who would coach us if Neeld went, the answer obviously is that we would be coached by the successful applicant for the job. None of us knows who that would be, but there would be applicants, obviously. Presumably, someone who has been watching and forming ideas about what could be done differently. One day, there will be another coach at Melbourne. The point of the current debate is that, for many observers, it's not going to be hard to improve on Neeld. Surely the important question is to identify somehow how much of our current predicament is down to Neeld himself. Your post is not helping clarify that, and certainly doesn't justify your opening claim that "we can't sack him now".

[timD 994]

That's a big 'if' and I am not saying that we keep him till October.

If in August we are certain of his fate then we can do it then and reconcile it with any players that were disillusioned.

I just don't think it is as simple as 'the players hate the coach' - some will fight for him and will think we are a rabble for firing him before he even makes it to the half way mark of his contract.

1 month of a caretaker is fine, 2 months if you are sure the decision is made.

But 3 or 4 months of jogging on the spot doesn't help us retain those oh-so-disillusioned players.

I disagree on the 'if'.

It is not a big leap. I think it is strange to not see it. It is really clear that the players are not exerting maximum effort. WHY? There are lots of reasons but a biggy at footy clubs if playing for (or in spite of) the coach. You can see teams get flogged but be clearly trying. We don't and we aren't. We've had player after player talk about "buy-in". WHY? EVEN on the limited bits that we know, it is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. I'm not saying that Neeld is solely responsible - the decisions made at the club for years have all led to this outcome. Neeld has not made it any better. And I reckon that he has made it worse.

[rpfc 28,249]

I disagree on the 'if'.

It is not a big leap. I think it is strange to not see it. It is really clear that the players are not exerting maximum effort. WHY? There are lots of reasons but a biggy at footy clubs if playing for (or in spite of) the coach. You can see teams get flogged but be clearly trying. We don't and we aren't. We've had player after player talk about "buy-in". WHY? EVEN on the limited bits that we know, it is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. I'm not saying that Neeld is solely responsible - the decisions made at the club for years have all led to this outcome. Neeld has not made it any better. And I reckon that he has made it worse.

I can see the players are bereft of confidence in themselves and each other.

And while that is the burden of the coach it doesn't mean he that 'the players aren't playing for him.'

You can dial back the dramaticism - I have said since the Essendon game that Neeld is to be removed should our performances continue the way they have.

I just put forward the notion that removing Neeld will not solve our personnel issues simply for the fact that it will not solve our personnel issues.

[Johnny Karate 559]

It's getting to be like some kind of competition, where posters try to outdo each other with the ridiculousness of their claims.

You don't kick 14 goals in a match without some semblance of discipline, structure and competitive effort. Our 14.10 is a higher score than Collingwood, St Kilda, Sydney, Fremantle, Richmond, Adelaide, The Bulldogs, Port, and West Coast could manage last round, and only a goal less than North and Hawthorn. Guess all those teams will have to sack their coaches as well.

We have a new champion of ridiculous claims - I dip my lid to you.

We still couldnt score over 100 points in a bruise free shoot out against a team stacked with teenagers. Fremantle, Sydney & Port actually managed escape with 4 points despite their 'low scores' because their structures and competitive effort managed to keep the opposition to a lower score than themselves - something Neeld's sides have managed to do in 5 out 27 matches (x4 against the expansion sides). Maybe if our structures & competitive effort allowed us to keep a team to under 100 points in a game we might have a hope in hell but we've managed that 7 out of 27 times (on 3 of those occasions we lost). If our structures and competitiveness allowed us to score over 100 points we might have a hope in hell - expansion teams aside (x3) a Mark Neeld coached team has NEVER scored more than 100 points against any opposition ever.

I wanted Mark Neeld to succeed, he had a really tough first year and there were mitigating factors but this year we have actually been worse. I take no pleasure in calling for his head - those that argue for him will say it's debatable whether anybody else could've done better given our list. At the end of the day could anybody have done any worse? I guess we'll find out with our next coach - I'd wager "no".

So you'll forgive me if I indulge in a little bit of hyperbole about our lack of structures and competitiveness when the scoreboard suggests they're shite and my eyes tell me they're worse.

[Wormburner 674]

Anyone think we actually have a shot of beating GC in two weeks given the way we've been playing - I just can't see us getting up.

This to me will be the nail in Neeldy's coffin...

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Anyone remember Carlton, Pagan etc, the players, like DH Fevola, ran the show and buried a established coach, and several others. Yes we have gone backwards while we reset who our senior players are, they were good, had some skill but perhaps they were better soldiers than leaders, that said the shafting of Junior was a huge mistake, of the players that were changed. Moloney and Green I loved as players of the club but we weren't breaking down the doors of the top 8. Yes we have two young captains but the basis has been set that we will be fitter, we are talking footballers here, one skill set at a time, talking of the coach and whether he has lost the playing group is just stupid when we wanted a culture change and our now getting it. Take your effing medicine and stop believing in the snake oil quick fix BS that changing Neeld would be.

I completely disagree Ingeniokinetic and believe your comments are short sighted.

It is true that we needed a tough coach after Bailey that would change the culture at the club. I have no issues with this. Unfortunately we chose the wrong tough coach. Neeld may well be tough and he may well have changed the culture, however, he has done it in such a way that he [censored] off the older players to the extent they could not get out of the place fast enough. A huge red flag to me was the way he treated the previous leadership group. Essentially firing all of them, in essence telling them they are all poor leaders with bad habits and then installing ROOKIES as captains was never the way to do it. This was done extremely poorly, it could have been done in a way that produced the change he wanted without personally insulting a large number of our senior and better players. His management of Watts, Frawley, and Davey has been close to appalling, no doubt this is their last year at the club. It is well documented the Martin, Moloney, Green and Pettard all had in club fall outs with Neeeld last year. Worst of all, in his pursuit of toughness and a defensive game plan he has destroyed the confidence of the playing group. As I have said I can only count 3 players who have developed since Neeld has come in........ just 3. Most players don't want to play for the club, and would prefer to play for someone else. This is reflected in their performances. Simply Neeld has over scrambled the culture egg and as such the players are playing with no self confidence, and no self belief. This is the coaches responsibility.

Last week, to my surprise we played offensive bruise free football but worse than Bailey, it was a desperate attempt by Neeld to save his career and a complete turn around on the game plan that he says he has been developing.

What scares me is the mass exit-is of players that is coming seasons end. The only way to save some of the furniture is to change directions early. Bring in a coach that can build self belief, can inspire the players, can get the players up to play for there club and play for the gurnsey. This must happen ASAP. Staying on the current course is nothing short of suicidal and in time could well spell extinction for our club.

We are not taking our medicine as you suggested Neeld is giving us POISON!

Edited May 1, 2013 by Grand New Flag

[Guest rednblue4life]

We shouldev always went for a experianced coach after Bailey, Our list is young and our coach is learning on the job no way is this going to be the base of sucsess dont care how good a assistant he was being the main man is different. The position the club is in only Experianced proffesinals can get us back on track.

[What 18,810]

Anyone think we actually have a shot of beating GC in two weeks given the way we've been playing - I just can't see us getting up.

This to me will be the nail in Neeldy's coffin...

Ablett, Swallow, Bennell, Jager Bomb, Prestia, Matera

they will destroy our midfield

[Mongrel Dee 56]

To all posters who support Neeld.

His team who he now owns are playing very bad football. High draft picks who have come to this club are now playing bad football under Neeld.

It is not rocket science. Neeld cannot get his team to play good football, therefore the club must get a coach who can get players who are drafted by this club to play AFL quality football.

It is a no brainer.