and we all know that beer is not a drug

I think you would have to be a moron to not understand what I was saying and you're not are you?

the levels of drug abuse in Amsterdam are lower than in Australia, even tho it is legal.

Freedom is one hell of a drug!

Edited December 3, 201212 yr by tonatopia

What one has to do is ask the question why?

AFL football is addictive!!!

If any one on this site has ever played the game you will know the adrenaline rush you feel after training and after a match.

Many a person has withdrawal symptoms after a season has finished including yours truly.

They now diagnose it as depression which is another term for I don't know or really care.

Few drugs were available in my day so most went on the booze during the off season.

As these guys train almost every day they get a daily fix and I can appreciate they can get hooked on it.

They have a day off and no rush; so easy to replace it.

That's how it all starts, well at least in some cases and the pushers do the rest.

I don't know the answer but I sure know the cause.

PS A doctor when presented with a baffling case asked the patient

'have you ever had this before?'

patient replied

'yes'

after much thought the doctor proudly told him

'well you've got it again'

Edited December 3, 201212 yr by skills32

the levels of drug abuse in Amsterdam are lower than in Australia, even tho it is legal.

Freedom is one hell of a drug!

Freedom? No. Not really. Compassion is though,

There's a popular misconception in the United States that Holland has a permissive attitude toward drugs. It doesn't. Instead, the country has adopted a more pragmatic approach to drug abuse. It still vigorously prosecutes large-scale drug trafficking. But it considers drug users a public-health problem, not a criminal one. Addicts caught stealing or breaking other laws are prosecuted, but they aren't arrested for possession.

"The view is that addiction is a brain disease, and it requires treatment, not incarceration," says Wim van den Brink, a psychiatrist at the Academic Medical Center of the University of Amsterdam. That policy makes for a remarkable statistic: About 70 percent of Holland's drug addicts are in treatment programs; only 10 to 15 percent of America's are.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070318/26drugs.htm

It's certainly worth examining.

The only reason drugs should be legalized & regulated is this...You get rid of the Backyard cooks very quickly.

The ingredients are standardized...Dosages can be measured..

The problem will never be wiped, but to keep it illegal is to just take it down the dark alley unchecked.

You mean Heroin won't be cut with battery acid any more?

Or others with Bon Ami?

the backyard & dark alleys are the worst sale points.

thats why there are injecting houses in smart caring areas.

there is no answer other than less judging people for they're weaknesses.

It's often the holier than thou's that cause many people their problems in the first place.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/teenager-nick-mitchells-lsd-overdose-death-delusions-and-despair/story-e6frf7jo-1226530792737

Nick, 15, died after he and a mate experimented with a substance police believe to be LSD.

The drug caused respiratory problems and heart complications for Nick, who could not be revived after his 11-year-old brother found him unconscious in his bedroom.

It had a different effect on his friend, also 15, who, in a psychotic state, ran naked into traffic on a busy road and was hit by a car, leaving him with serious injuries. He is in hospital.

And some want more of this type of thing available, legally.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/teenager-nick-mitchells-lsd-overdose-death-delusions-and-despair/story-e6frf7jo-1226530792737

Nick, 15, died after he and a mate experimented with a substance police believe to be LSD.

The drug caused respiratory problems and heart complications for Nick, who could not be revived after his 11-year-old brother found him unconscious in his bedroom.

It had a different effect on his friend, also 15, who, in a psychotic state, ran naked into traffic on a busy road and was hit by a car, leaving him with serious injuries. He is in hospital.

And some want more of this type of thing available, legally.

young people have things in they're systems that make it easier for them to take on the world as they grow into bigger bodies. DHEA is one of the things in our system that gives us the MOJO to take on the BIG Bull in the paddock, or to drive fast. Take drugs a& generally experiment in lifes garden.

Nature has its attrition. This is common in life & its devastatingly sad when we lose loved ones.

But this is life & it takes a take it on attitude to go forward in todays unneedingly combative lifestyle of the West & of the nuclear family.

Tribes don't compete against they're own the way we do, fortunately for them. They are a team.

Prohibition doesn't really work, but in many cases becomes just another law seen to be challenged with disregard, in a combative western lifestyle.

I haven't read all this thread and I'm working from my iPhone so it's difficult to read and reply. Tassie you seem to have alot of experience and knowledge in his field. I too have 20 yrs experience in the AOD field. I have moved in circles where recreational use was rife and excepted. I also watch friends who hide behind the bottle or pill bottle pretending to be functioning Individuals. The so called legal drugs have a massive impact on the many levels of society already. Why extend this to drugs like heroin or marijuana.

IMO such drugs have a massive impact on society, families, youth, work place etc etc. Issues like domestic violence, mental health, general health etc etc can't be ignored when talking about any drugs. They intertwine

I haven't read all this thread and I'm working from my iPhone so it's difficult to read and reply. Tassie you seem to have alot of experience and knowledge in his field. I too have 20 yrs experience in the AOD field. I have moved in circles where recreational use was rife and excepted. I also watch friends who hide behind the bottle or pill bottle pretending to be functioning Individuals. The so called legal drugs have a massive impact on the many levels of society already. Why extend this to drugs like heroin or marijuana.

IMO such drugs have a massive impact on society, families, youth, work place etc etc. Issues like domestic violence, mental health, general health etc etc can't be ignored when talking about any drugs. They intertwine

Legal and illegal drugs have a massive impact, our current system hasn't stopped or even impeded this problem. To me that says the current system isn't working so we should try another approach, it might also say there is no answer no matter what we do the problem will keep getting worse.

What do you think 'Demonsterative', you have experience in the field so I'm interested. Is there an answer or can we look at minimising harm at best or is it all too hard?

Legal and illegal drugs have a massive impact, our current system hasn't stopped or even impeded this problem. To me that says the current system isn't working so we should try another approach, it might also say there is no answer no matter what we do the problem will keep getting worse.

What do you think 'Demonsterative', you have experience in the field so I'm interested. Is there an answer or can we look at minimising harm at best or is it all too hard?

I disagree with that; how massive would the impact be if we made it legal and by doing so gave our tacit support to users, wouldn't making it legal say that it's ok to use?

I like Robbie have two grown up children who(I think) have never had drugs.....They lead hard working lives and are a pleasure to be with......I also have a daughter who was(is) a drug addict.....At 15 she left a loving home to live on the street and do what she wanted to.....She partook in the drug culture and robbed my cancer ridden wife and myself.....She burglarised our home and stole family jewery and irreplacable WW1 and WW2 medals for a few hits that made her feel good for a few hours.......She now has 3 children from 3 different fathers and they all live from handouts from the goverment....I havn't seen her for 4 years...

If you think that legalising these drug is worth a go....Great.....but it will only serve to create more addicts creating more problems

I like Robbie have two grown up children who(I think) have never had drugs.....They lead hard working lives and are a pleasure to be with......I also have a daughter who was(is) a drug addict.....At 15 she left a loving home to live on the street and do what she wanted to.....She partook in the drug culture and robbed my cancer ridden wife and myself.....She burglarised our home and stole family jewery and irreplacable WW1 and WW2 medals for a few hits that made her feel good for a few hours.......She now has 3 children from 3 different fathers and they all live from handouts from the goverment....I havn't seen her for 4 years...

If you think that legalising these drug is worth a go....Great.....but it will only serve to create more addicts creating more problems

Sympathize with you Boss...i too have had my house ransacked by a Heroin User or freeloader as i refer to them.

The only reason i wish these drugs to be legal is so that there is at least some form of monitoring...

SOME people are going to use drugs whether they are legal or not.

If they are illegal they are sold in back alleys and carparks...Legal they are sold over the counter with an i.d. card shown..

I like Robbie have two grown up children who(I think) have never had drugs.....They lead hard working lives and are a pleasure to be with......I also have a daughter who was(is) a drug addict.....At 15 she left a loving home to live on the street and do what she wanted to.....She partook in the drug culture and robbed my cancer ridden wife and myself.....She burglarised our home and stole family jewery and irreplacable WW1 and WW2 medals for a few hits that made her feel good for a few hours.......She now has 3 children from 3 different fathers and they all live from handouts from the goverment....I havn't seen her for 4 years...

If you think that legalising these drug is worth a go....Great.....but it will only serve to create more addicts creating more problems

I'm sorry to hear about this.

I was going to go on a rant about how we should legalise marijuana, but tax the hell out of it and take a more Amsterdam approach about zero tolerance on hard drugs but you've really put things into perspective for me.

At the end of the day no one wins - thank you

Sympathize with you Boss...i too have had my house ransacked by a Heroin User or freeloader as i refer to them.

The only reason i wish these drugs to be legal is so that there is at least some form of monitoring...

SOME people are going to use drugs whether they are legal or not.

If they are illegal they are sold in back alleys and carparks...Legal they are sold over the counter with an i.d. card shown..

I think there will always be the back alley deals wether you make it legal or not.....Underage drinking is not legal or underage smoking is not legal....but it still continues unabated.......Drugs would be the same.....

I think there will always be the back alley deals wether you make it legal or not.....Underage drinking is not legal or underage smoking is not legal....but it still continues unabated.......Drugs would be the same.....

i agree, but at least if it is made legal more people would attain it from a registered source.

It's like the road toll iknow, the problem will always exist...keeping it illegal to me is like brushing it under the carpet hoping it will go away.

Supply and control the industry. Monitor personal consumption patterns and identify problem users and provide help.

By controlling drugs, you can monitor abusers.

The drugs will also be cleaner and cheaper, illuminating the black market. Consumers must register before they purchase the drugs.

Supply and control the industry. Monitor personal consumption patterns and identify problem users and provide help.

By controlling drugs, you can monitor abusers.

The drugs will also be cleaner and cheaper, illuminating the black market. Consumers must register before they purchase the drugs.

Absolutely..if every country followed this template was as strict about it as they are with airports the drug culture would be 50% of its size in a matter of months.

I disagree with that; how massive would the impact be if we made it legal and by doing so gave our tacit support to users, wouldn't making it legal say that it's ok to use?

Robbie, it's ok to disagree but I'm not sure what with. Surely you see that we have a big problem now and it is growing, do you have an answer apart from the failed war against drugs. I used to be pretty much black and white about the legalisation route but I'm not so sure how it would work, I'm open to any other solution or variation. One thing is for sure, I don't want to see dealers making money out of anyone else's misery.

I like Robbie have two grown up children who(I think) have never had drugs.....They lead hard working lives and are a pleasure to be with......I also have a daughter who was(is) a drug addict.....At 15 she left a loving home to live on the street and do what she wanted to.....She partook in the drug culture and robbed my cancer ridden wife and myself.....She burglarised our home and stole family jewery and irreplacable WW1 and WW2 medals for a few hits that made her feel good for a few hours.......She now has 3 children from 3 different fathers and they all live from handouts from the goverment....I havn't seen her for 4 years...

If you think that legalising these drug is worth a go....Great.....but it will only serve to create more addicts creating more problems

I feel for you 'Bossdog', I've been involved with and know people in similar positions, but the legalisation angle would mean they at least wouldn't have to steal from family and friends to get supply, it would take the dealers out of the game, but in the end we still have an addict. Will it create more? I don't know. Not an ideal result by any means.

Supply and control the industry. Monitor personal consumption patterns and identify problem users and provide help.

No way.

These drugs are all illegal because they f#ck you right up. No way should they be legal, and no way should the government spend money revamping laws and systems to accomodate for their use.

If you take drugs, you are knowingly breaking the law. Deal with the consequnces.

No way.

These drugs are all illegal because they f#ck you right up. No way should they be legal, and no way should the government spend money revamping laws and systems to accomodate for their use.

If you take drugs, you are knowingly breaking the law. Deal with the consequnces.

The law very rarely if ever prosecute users for drug use (to hard) it is usually the side effects such as robbery to support a habit that catches them up. The odd dealer gets caught from time to time to keep things looking good in the press.

The law very rarely if ever prosecute users for drug use (to hard) it is usually the side effects such as robbery to support a habit that catches them up. The odd dealer gets caught from time to time to keep things looking good in the press.

Disagree.....The Police charge many many people with use and possess....It's the courts that slap them on the wrist and send them home........It's not just the taking of these drugs,it affects their families, friends, and the crimes that are caused ...

No way.

These drugs are all illegal because they f#ck you right up. No way should they be legal, and no way should the government spend money revamping laws and systems to accomodate for their use.

If you take drugs, you are knowingly breaking the law. Deal with the consequnces.

It is fairly agreed that the money spent on enforcing the current stance on drugs is extremely inefficient and that we are losing the battle.

Better to legalise marijuana, increase the quality and tax the hell out of it. It would take the novelty out of it and increase penalties on harder drugs such as ice, heroine ect.

(keeping in mind restrictions on age, as most studies suggest 21 and older, amounts and all other restrictions)

I don't condone drugs but obviously our current stance isn't working.

Be more like Amsterdam.

Robbie, it's ok to disagree but I'm not sure what with. Surely you see that we have a big problem now and it is growing, do you have an answer apart from the failed war against drugs. I used to be pretty much black and white about the legalisation route but I'm not so sure how it would work, I'm open to any other solution or variation. One thing is for sure, I don't want to see dealers making money out of anyone else's misery.

I feel for you 'Bossdog', I've been involved with and know people in similar positions, but the legalisation angle would mean they at least wouldn't have to steal from family and friends to get supply, it would take the dealers out of the game, but in the end we still have an addict. Will it create more? I don't know. Not an ideal result by any means.

The dealers would still supply cheaper than the authorities and the spiral would continue with even more addicts...

Disagree.....The Police charge many many people with use and possess....It's the courts that slap them on the wrist and send them home........It's not just the taking of these drugs,it affects their families, friends, and the crimes that are caused ...

The biggest issues with the courts is how long it takes a case to get to an actual court and that our prisons are incredibly full so judges are reluctant to sentence someone to jail.

By 2014 no more room, when will the next one be built? 2016, most likely 2017.

This is my beef with Labour, for years reports were being published but nothing happened.

Disagree.....The Police charge many many people with use and possess....It's the courts that slap them on the wrist and send them home........It's not just the taking of these drugs,it affects their families, friends, and the crimes that are caused ...

More often than not they turn a blind eye unless it is staring them right in the face, they could spend all day and night arresting users, they know where to look, it's just not good use of resources. Look it's a side issue the big issue is how it effects the people around them and the crime rate, I'm right with you on this.