Quigley's observations about Wines being a bit of a fumbler are interesting.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Wines didn't feature in the top 10 of the clean hands test at the combine.

I know it's only one test but it doesn't really warm the heart when taking an inside midfielder at pick 4 and his hands aren't elite.

yeah wallin looks very good. Seemes to have some pace, good defensive aspects to his game and seems to have quite a bit of penetration with his kicking finding targets under pressure and in space. I'd love to have him in a red and blue jumper next year!

In Quigley 2007 mock he had Morten at pick 2 and rated him pretty high.

5 Years later we have delisted ever player we pick up in 2007, what the he'll happen?

Were these players just hopeless or are we just no good and developing young players cause if we didn't pick then another team would have, it's not like they cant play.

I ask the question to all Demons fans, how the hell did we get some meany picks wrong in one draft?

Is it the coaches fault cause he tells the recruiters the type of player we want to fit his style of game or is it the recruiters fault for picking them?

Quigley's observations about Wines being a bit of a fumbler are interesting.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Wines didn't feature in the top 10 of the clean hands test at the combine.

I know it's only one test but it doesn't really warm the heart when taking an inside midfielder at pick 4 and his hands aren't elite.

Cale Morten had elite hands what happen to him?

I don't really think a bunch of test should judge where you are picked in the draft.

Quigley's observations about Wines being a bit of a fumbler are interesting.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Wines didn't feature in the top 10 of the clean hands test at the combine.

I know it's only one test but it doesn't really warm the heart when taking an inside midfielder at pick 4 and his hands aren't elite.

I hope thats not true, we do not want an in/under mid with a case of the fumbles.

Mids must have great hands first, great footy brain, & foot disposal next.

I hope thats not true, we do not want an in/under mid with a case of the fumbles.

Mids must have great hands first, great footy brain, & foot disposal next.

The problem with all of this stuff is the focus on what these players can't do or do wrong. These boys do a helluva lot right. There are problems/issues with just about every player if you look deeply enough into it. The perfect player hasn't been invented yet. If we get Wines or Toumpas (or O'Rourke) we will be getting a potentially excellent player. Who turns out to be the best will come down to a multitude of factors, some of which the club has control over. I will be happy with Toumpas or Wines and I'm sure both will turn out to be very accomplished players.

The problem with all of this stuff is the focus on what these players can't do or do wrong. These boys do a helluva lot right. There are problems/issues with just about every player if you look deeply enough into it. The perfect player hasn't been invented yet. If we get Wines or Toumpas (or O'Rourke) we will be getting a potentially excellent player. Who turns out to be the best will come down to a multitude of factors, some of which the club has control over. I will be happy with Toumpas or Wines and I'm sure both will turn out to be very accomplished players.

Understand WD, but there is a couple of things which is a non negotiable re abilities, & physical skills. While I don't really believe Wines has a major fumbling issue, or he wouldn't have been touted in the top 10.

But I do hope our people are doing they're proper due diligence, as I don't hold too much faith in our ability to get things right, based on the past few decades.

I guess I feel this way as I haven't been out to watch any of these boys over the last Year or more & I'm actually feeling a bit nervous about the draft.

I hope thats not true, we do not want an in/under mid with a case of the fumbles.

Mids must have great hands first, great footy brain, & foot disposal next.

I agree with you on this 'dee'. I remember being at a final we played against WC at Waverley and one big difference between the teams was their sure ball handling in hot situations. They had players like Kemp and Mainwaring who were one touch and go, we had players getting to the ball and just a hair off getting and going. It's always stuck with me that.

I agree with you on this 'dee'. I remember being at a final we played against WC at Waverley and one big difference between the teams was their sure ball handling in hot situations. They had players like Kemp and Mainwaring who were one touch and go, we had players getting to the ball and just a hair off getting and going. It's always stuck with me that.

Yep, first the fine touch, but then equally is the desire for the contest & the hard arsed determination to win. Hopefully out of this combination, comes the ability to remain composed under fire, to get the job done.

this is why our list build with kids has come unstuck somewhat, (but not totally) because we picked flimsy types.

If we had have picked the best kids but also with a hunger for contested ball, we would be much better off, as long as we had the Jnr McDonalds of our club, to keep the kids disciplined & ontrack.

I suspect MFC has committed to wines, believing Toupas was taken. Wines maybe a better fit for what Neeld wants from his midfield. We are after the best player for MFC not the best player available.

Quigley had this to say about O'Rourke and I have to say it concerns me a little, in fact it concerns me a lot more than his assessment of Wines' faults.

By hand he has pretty quick hands but looks to go backwards a lot or to a player with the opposition sweating on him. His handball style can look pretty awkward at times and the ball hits the ground a lot. In the AFL with players being that much quicker and stronger I have serious concerns about whether O’Rourke’s game will stand up to the pressure, particularly the handball part of it. As it is now he flinches when he hears footsteps and he needs to address that before it becomes too ingrained.

It just goes to show that they all see it differently. I'd love to see what Emma had to say about $cully before the draft.

5 Years later we have delisted ever player we pick up in 2007, what the he'll happen?

Were these players just hopeless or are we just no good and developing young players cause if we didn't pick then another team would have, it's not like they cant play.

I ask the question to all Demons fans, how the hell did we get some meany picks wrong in one draft?

Is it the coaches fault cause he tells the recruiters the type of player we want to fit his style of game or is it the recruiters fault for picking them?

We got one pick right.

Grimes was one we did consider at 4, so thank god he was there at 14. The others we looked at for pick 4 were Jarrad Grant and Rhys Palmer. The two out and out guns that were around after pick 4 weren't even on our radar at that pick, and in hindsight 2007 has been fairly light on in terms of high end talent (no doubt about Cotchin, Dangerfield and Rioli).

I don't think anyone had Dangerfield or Rioli as being ranked in the top 5, and even Adelaide were seen to have reached for him (great work Matty Rendell). We were considering him for pick 14.

It's one thing to slam the recruiters, but you do also have to take into account the quality of the draft pool. It really is a tough business to make a call on a career when there really is such little exposed form (relatively) on and off field. Who knows what Dayle Garletts going to be in 10 years time, but a lot of recruiters have made some calls on him already. Time will tell, unfortunately for us, it's been a harsh judge.

I'm going to paraphrase Rendell from a great article he wrote for Inside Football. He quoted another recruiter who said "Every player we select is capable of playing AFL'.

Rendell went on to say he agreed with that statement, "but the reasons some don't are many and varied, maturity being the main one and too-hasty decisions on teenagers by list managers being a second".

There's a more detailed context surrounding this statement from Rendell (about AFC coaches and Patty Dangerfield), but I find this point most interesting.

"Coaches' influence in drafting has set back many clubs. Unfortunately many think they are geniuses at drafting and will try and influence a recruiter, but I've yet to see a coach who was a good judge at talent ID".

I suspect MFC has committed to wines, believing Toupas was taken. Wines maybe a better fit for what Neeld wants from his midfield. We are after the best player for MFC not the best player available.

I don't agree. Firstly it would be stupid, as there are no guarantees come draft day, and secondly why would a club feel the need to commit to a player prior to the draft ? They're not going anywhere. There's absolutely no need.

Edited November 18, 201212 yr by Ben-Hur

I suspect MFC has committed to wines, believing Toupas was taken. Wines maybe a better fit for what Neeld wants from his midfield. We are after the best player for MFC not the best player available.

Too many here seem to think they know what Neeld wants from his midfield or talk about the Neeld team and rule players in or out. I don't profess to know that but I do think we will take Toumpas if available, he's a very good player that will step straight into AFL football.

Quigley had this to say about O'Rourke and I have to say it concerns me a little, in fact it concerns me a lot more than his assessment of Wines' faults.

By hand he has pretty quick hands but looks to go backwards a lot or to a player with the opposition sweating on him. His handball style can look pretty awkward at times and the ball hits the ground a lot. In the AFL with players being that much quicker and stronger I have serious concerns about whether O’Rourke’s game will stand up to the pressure, particularly the handball part of it. As it is now he flinches when he hears footsteps and he needs to address that before it becomes too ingrained.

It just goes to show that they all see it differently. I'd love to see what Emma had to say about $cully before the draft.

Agree 'Robbie', plus there has been a knock on his confidence and consistency. Sounds like Morton or a Trav. too much risk here. He may well be a player but...can we afford it?

I don't agree. Firstly it would be stupid, as there are no guarantees come draft day, and secondly why would a club feel the need to commit to a player prior to the draft ? They're not going anywhere. There's absolutely no need.

Can't see it either 'Ben', couldn't see the club making a commitment to something that is out of it's control. As you've said elsewhere the club may have an understanding with GWS re Toumpas but it is probably doubtful and we just need to see how the cards fall.

There's a more detailed context surrounding this statement from Rendell (about AFC coaches and Patty Dangerfield), but I find this point most interesting.

"Coaches' influence in drafting has set back many clubs. Unfortunately many think they are geniuses at drafting and will try and influence a recruiter, but I've yet to see a coach who was a good judge at talent ID".

Seen plenty of recruiters with the same problem...

I'm just wondering why he doesn't apply to a university to write a Masters Thesis or a PhD on the subject. He's certainly getting there on the volume of content.

Did notice he complained about the BF 30,000 character per post limit.

Quigley is one of the few who actually acknowledges deficiencies in junior players, unlike others who list upside only. I must say, it's always refreshing to read his thoughts, as it gives some kind of balance to all the glowing reports at this time of year! (I especially enjoyed the dig at Essendon he had when listing some things Daniher needed to work on.)

However, for the main knock on Viney to be that he's a little tired in second halves, if only because he worked so hard in the first.......

Sploosh.