Yeah I know Mark has just signed a three year contract, but I'd still test the waters.

Martin, who I'm not a huge fan off, I would have traded last week. This week, with the rule changes, Martin has suddenly become much much more valuable. He has a good leap and is a better endurance athlete than Jamar. The Natanui rule will favour Martin to a massive extent, such that I reckon he'd probably displace Jamar as number one ruck this year - unless one of Gawn or Spencil beat him to it.

These new ruck rules disgust me, can't believe they have been introduced as they are unnecessary with the ball up replacing the bounce, but like White before him, they will kill Jamar. Martin must stay.

Jamar on the other hand....

Jamar. I think people are overestimating the effects o the rule change.

Martin is a good 1st ruck, Jamar is better and this developing midfield can use a great ruckman as they try to be less crap.

Yeah I know Mark has just signed a three year contract, but I'd still test the waters.

Martin, who I'm not a huge fan off, I would have traded last week. This week, with the rule changes, Martin has suddenly become much much more valuable. He has a good leap and is a better endurance athlete than Jamar. The Natanui rule will favour Martin to a massive extent, such that I reckon he'd probably displace Jamar as number one ruck this year - unless one of Gawn or Spencil beat him to it.

These new ruck rules disgust me, can't believe they have been introduced as they are unnecessary with the ball up replacing the bounce, but like White before him, they will kill Jamar. Martin must stay.

Jamar on the other hand....

Good point, and Jamar is worth more on the market.

Martin is over rated

Jamar is an All Australian ruckman.

Keep Jamar for me. I would love to have another veteran actually stay at our club, without being traded for the last few years of their career or being forced into retirement

Both.

Martin is over rated

I don't rate him, but nor do I Jamar and is why I argued for him to be traded last year.

He is a one year wonder. I would love to be wrong, but believe we've seen the best of him

Trade Martin, especially if we are able to get Pedersen. Possibly even a three way deal where we involve another club with an appropriate pick(s). He is surplus at this stage. If need be we can rookie a mature age ruckman from a state league as cover.

Pedersen is only 193 cm, I don't see how he is a second ruckman.

Martin potentially has a bit of Naitanui about him (athletic but slightly uncoordinated).

When he knuckled down and got fit in 2011 he was very good, but for such a smart guy he doesn't seem to be able to get his head around putting in the effort to be a better player.

Somewhere is the corner of a darkened room, Jeff White is pulling his hair out.

Trade Martin, especially if we are able to get Pedersen. Possibly even a three way deal where we involve another club with an appropriate pick(s). He is surplus at this stage. If need be we can rookie a mature age ruckman from a state league as cover.

I think this change could be the end of the undersized second ruck. If you take away their body contest then they will have to out-jump their opponents.

My belief was that ruckman could make body contact as soon as the ball leaves the umps hands with no grappling or locking of arms.

If not I don't understand how ruckman are meant to avoid body contact.

IMO Coaches will bend this rule or maybe even develop a specialist 3rd man up.

Either way the answer is Jamar everyday of the week.

Martin is a good relief ruckman given he is so mobile but in terms of No1 we need someone who taps it to advantage which again is jamar.

Fitzy can be developed into a "better Stef Martin", with Gawn & Spencer chasing Jamars No1 title.

Lastly if we get Pederson he will be a NOW "better Stef Martin", so trade and let someone else continue the SME.

I think this change could be the end of the undersized second ruck. If you take away their body contest then they will have to out-jump their opponents.

I hadn't really thought about that to be honest. I'm thinking more along the lines of if we were to get Pedersen, Clark might be used in more of a dual role (although I'd really want him to stay near the fwd 50).

On top of that we have got Spencer, Fitzpatrick and Gawn. All of these guys are fairly capable and can be good back up for Jamar. The way I see it is Jamar isn't going anywhere and he and Martin don't fit into the same side, so we trade Martin while he is still relatively young and has some currency.

My belief was that ruckman could make body contact as soon as the ball leaves the umps hands with no grappling or locking of arms.

If not I don't understand how ruckman are meant to avoid body contact.

IMO Coaches will bend this rule or maybe even develop a specialist 3rd man up.

Either way the answer is Jamar everyday of the week.

Martin is a good relief ruckman given he is so mobile but in terms of No1 we need someone who taps it to advantage which again is jamar.

Fitzy can be developed into a "better Stef Martin", with Gawn & Spencer chasing Jamars No1 title.

Lastly if we get Pederson he will be a NOW "better Stef Martin", so trade and let someone else continue the SME.

It's my understanding that you will no longer be able to use the third man up and only the designated ruck men are able to contest.

It's my understanding that you will no longer be able to use the third man up and only the designated ruck men are able to contest.

First time I've read that one. God I hope you are wrong.

It's my understanding that you will no longer be able to use the third man up and only the designated ruck men are able to contest.

Do you mean like in Auskick? Next the maggots will be designating whose turn it is to jump? Is that where we are heading?

Do you mean like in Auskick? Is that where we are heading?

They're hoping it won't get as violent as Auskick.

Does anyone here think that the primary role of the back-up ruck is to ruck?

Because it ain't...

I don't rate him, but nor do I Jamar and is why I argued for him to be traded last year.

He is a one year wonder. I would love to be wrong, but believe we've seen the best of him

I think he still has footy in him but only 2 Yrs left, & either Gawn or Spencer will come on soon.

In the meantime Clarke could share with Gawn or Spencer/Martin.

2 Yrs time and our ruck will be totally different in appearance & form.

Does anyone here think that the primary role of the back-up ruck is to ruck?

Because it ain't...

I would say there job is to provide relief to the ruckman with the stoppages around the ground and provide a little assistance across the HB line or deep forward...?

It's my understanding that you will no longer be able to use the third man up and only the designated ruck men are able to contest.

Source? Sorry just have not read or heard that anywhere...

AFAIK

1. Cannot make body contact until ball is thrown in/up

2. Ball to be thrown up around the ground, not bounced

Both rules favour tall athletic leapers IMO, not the Jamar/Hille type.

Does anyone here think that the primary role of the back-up ruck is to ruck?

Because it ain't...

Thanks for that. In case you weren't sure, this thread is in relation to the primary ruck.

Source? Sorry just have not read or heard that anywhere...

AFAIK

1. Cannot make body contact until ball is thrown in/up

2. Ball to be thrown up around the ground, not bounced

Both rules favour tall athletic leapers IMO, not the Jamar/Hille type.

Driving to see a client today and I caught a bit of Bartlett and Ralph and they talked about it, mentioned how Hodge was the best at it and it will cut all that out.

I don't like the idea of shopping players around who have just re-signed. Great way to put players offside and I believe it would be detrimental to the culture we are trying to build.

it takes more than one bad year to make me turn off players who I thought were great players. I think these two players are still valuable to the club and will play a vital role for the club moving forward.

At least 4 clubs are trying to trade for Martin (I have heard they are -StK, PA, NM, GWS). No-one's chasing Jamar.

So if either is traded - who'll it be?