POLL: Watts v Naitanui ... Did we get it right or wrong?

[darkhorse72 1,916]

Pro-stats (the stat company the AFL uses) have Naita ranked 18th in the ruckman position for 2012. How he was picked as first ruck in the All Australian team is beyond comprehension.

that low 18th best ruckman on stats and starting in the AA...our boys should all grow dreadlocks and get foreign citizenship in Fiji, if Fiji right?

What a joke, who is on the panel, anyone know. Love Lyon's quote. lol

[Guest Rassilon]

that low 18th best ruckman on stats and starting in the AA...our boys should all grow dreadlocks and get foreign citizenship in Fiji, if Fiji right?

What a joke, who is on the panel, anyone know. Love Lyon's quote. lol

Quite a few AFL media and a few of the boys from H/O - what a joke. Nick nat has had a great year, but please the AFL media boys have declared their bias.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Rassilon

[Akum 2,660]

that low 18th best ruckman on stats and starting in the AA...our boys should all grow dreadlocks and get foreign citizenship in Fiji, if Fiji right?

What a joke, who is on the panel, anyone know. Love Lyon's quote. lol

I think the only one from Perth on the panel is Glen Jakovich. Must be either an unbelievably good negotiator, or the only one who was sober during discussions. And he's obviously Weagles >> Dockers.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I can't see any way you could have Nic Nat ahead of Jacobs or Maric. They rucked 80% of their games and Nic Nat 50% at best. They were so far above him this year, as to make his AA selection laughable.

While we are at it, how funny would it be if Mitchell wins the Brownlow after not making the AA team?

Agree. Although Maric dropped off in the 2nd half of the season. Nik Nat is good but he is not AA at this point.

Still a mile in front of Watts. 2013 will be Watts 5th season of AFL. He really needs to be impacting games.

Sam Mitchell's non selectoin is surprising.

[old dee 23,787]

The experts have spoken.

Nic nat is AA.

That makes him better than Watts at the moment.

We did make the right decision as Nic nat would have left by now

But there is no doubt in my mind that right now he is the better player.

[pm24 451]

The one thing I alwasy remember when this debate comes up is that Natanui is almost a full year older than Watts. So physically, Natanui is bound to have the advantage, but with another solid preseason under his belt with Misson, I reckon we could see a stronger Watts next year. I guess the other benfit of drafting Watts is that Natanui's ability could fall of sooner than Watts due to Natanui's reliance on his athleticism.

Remember that athletic ruckmen we used to have, Jeff White. As his body started to get run down and older, his effectiveness dropped big time. That's the danger with relying on athleticism so much, once it goes you can't get it back.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I'm an avid basketball player and fan, and it's very noticeable that those guys that have always relied on their athleticism to be successful can drop off in their effectiveness sooner than those with strong fundamental skills. Natanui has still got a lot of time to develop his skills, but is he going to be as effective when he loses a yard of pace, or if he can't jump as high??

[darkhorse72 1,916]

More the case how will nicknat go when Cox retires, if he hasn't learnt to read a game of footy they then he'll be a huge liability with the way the game has evolved.

edit: spelling

Edited September 18, 2012 by Darkhorse72

[satyricon 267]

The experts have spoken.

Nic nat is AA.

That makes him better than Watts at the moment.

We did make the right decision as Nic nat would have left by now

But there is no doubt in my mind that right now he is the better player.

Sorry Old Dee but 'experts' apart from putting NikNat in the ruck, where are Gibson, Pavlich, Mitchell etc etc

[old dee 23,787]

Sorry Old Dee but 'experts' apart from putting NikNat in the ruck, where are Gibson, Pavlich, Mitchell etc etc

You cannot fit 50 players into 22 spots someone has to miss out.

The experts who pick this side are so far in front of you and me that we cannot hear the band.

[Toorak 108]

This is a old prediction. Watts will never become an AA.

[Hannibal 5,814]

This is a old prediction. Watts will never become an AA.

You're going out on a limb there.

[Geddy Lee 582]

This is a old prediction. Watts will never become an AA.

What a crock of [censored]. Pull your head in. If Ted Richards can make it, anyone can. It's never too late to learn what it takes to be elite.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Geddy Lee

[Hannibal 5,814]

What a crock of [censored]. Pull your head in. If Ted Richards can make it, anyone can. It's never too late to learn what it takes to be elite.

Can't he have an opinion ?

[stuie 7,374]

This is a old prediction. Watts will never become an AA.

Welcome back Range Rover. Should have picked a less guessable name.

[satyricon 267]

You cannot fit 50 players into 22 spots someone has to miss out.

The experts who pick this side are so far in front of you and me that we cannot hear the band.

So the experts have been watching tooty for 35 yrs have they?.......what makes them better judges than me

the AA team is a crock, always has been, always will, NikNat was a political decision to grow the game....

...I am so sick of the hype over this guy, yes he is big and athletic, yes he does some freakish things, but last weekend Jolley and Dawes smacked him and Cox.............

NikNat is just a highlight reel at the moment, and when Cox hangs up his boots let's see what he can do then...he may turn out to be a great player.....but the definition of a great player on this board according to some is a player who can influence a game and maybe win it....NikNat is so far off being that player

......Sam Jacobs by everything, stats etc was the best ruckman this season, then daylight......I repeat where are Gibson, Mitchell, Pavlich......

[Robbie57 2,020]

So the experts have been watching tooty for 35 yrs have they?.......what makes them better judges than me

the AA team is a crock, always has been, always will, NikNat was a political decision to grow the game....

...I am so sick of the hype over this guy, yes he is big and athletic, yes he does some freakish things, but last weekend Jolley and Dawes smacked him and Cox.............

NikNat is just a highlight reel at the moment, and when Cox hangs up his boots let's see what he can do then...he may turn out to be a great player.....but the definition of a great player on this board according to some is a player who can influence a game and maybe win it....NikNat is so far off being that player

......Sam Jacobs by everything, stats etc was the best ruckman this season, then daylight......I repeat where are Gibson, Mitchell, Pavlich......

And Gerard "percentages" Healey knows it. His performance the other night when questioned about it it was pretty ordinary. How does a part time ruckman (50%) get the gig defies all logic.

[sue 9,102]

You cannot fit 50 players into 22 spots someone has to miss out.

The experts who pick this side are so far in front of you and me that we cannot hear the band.

Yes, someone has to miss out. And the 'experts' probably do know more than me. But regardless of what you think of Watts v NN, blind Freddy can see that the NN selection was a bow to PR and marketing hype and not who contributed best in the ruck all year. The 'experts' are part of the AFL machine.

[old dee 23,787]

Yes, someone has to miss out. And the 'experts' probably do know more than me. But regardless of what you think of Watts v NN, blind Freddy can see that the NN selection was a bow to PR and marketing hype and not who contributed best in the ruck all year. The 'experts' are part of the AFL machine.

Sue all I am suggesting is two things

- the team is picked by so called experts who i assume watch every game ever week or almost every game.

I watch a couple of games. So i give them the benefit of seeing players regularly and so have a better idea than me.

- there is always an arguement that certain players should have been in at the expense of someone else.

I just get a laugh on demonland by the number of people who will never acknowledge that Nic Nat is a good player.

Seems to be that if they admit that then it follows we made an error in not selecting him over watts.

This not the case of course as I believe the two issues are not connected.

[satyricon 267]

Sue all I am suggesting is two things

- the team is picked by so called experts who i assume watch every game ever week or almost every game.

I watch a couple of games. So i give them the benefit of seeing players regularly and so have a better idea than me.

- there is always an arguement that certain players should have been in at the expense of someone else.

I just get a laugh on demonland by the number of people who will never acknowledge that Nic Nat is a good player.

Seems to be that if they admit that then it follows we made an error in not selecting him over watts.

This not the case of course as I believe the two issues are not connected.

OD it is not that we don't acknowledge NikNat as a good player, it is the hype that he is a great player that gets up some noses, it would still be the same if he was a MFC player.........I just want Bruce McAveney to have sex with NikNat and that will rid all the sexual tension he has in his commentary of every game that NikNat plays in.....I regard him the same as Jeremy Howe....exciting to watch but still a long way to go game wise.........quite a few at the B&F thought Howie was a shoe in for a top five place but the Coaches know better.....as somebody else said it is nice PR for the AFL....NikNat may or may not be a great player in the future, personally I think Howie has a better chance of that

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

......Sam Jacobs by everything, stats etc was the best ruckman this season, then daylight......I repeat where are Gibson, Mitchell, Pavlich......

Ivan Maric begs to differ but really those two were head and shoulders above naitanui and cox

[sue 9,102]

Sue all I am suggesting is two things

- the team is picked by so called experts who i assume watch every game ever week or almost every game.

I watch a couple of games. So i give them the benefit of seeing players regularly and so have a better idea than me.

- there is always an arguement that certain players should have been in at the expense of someone else.

I just get a laugh on demonland by the number of people who will never acknowledge that Nic Nat is a good player.

Seems to be that if they admit that then it follows we made an error in not selecting him over watts.

This not the case of course as I believe the two issues are not connected.

Old Dee - I acknowledge that the 'experts' will have seen a few more games than me, but from the many matches I am stupid enough to watch each week, I'd still stand by my strong suspicion that NN's selection was not purely based on form and (on-field) value to his club. Nothing to do with the Watts v NN comparison.

For what it's worth. my view on that is:

NN is over-hyped and Watts over-scrutinized,

That it is hard to determine which of them has been significantly more valuable to their teams which are in such different positions/playing groups,

That it is even harder to predict who will look best after 10 years,

That NN may well have developed at MFC and then shot through to WA just as he was getting into his stride to our dismay.

For all these reasons I think there is no need to despair or even worry about the choice yet.

[old dee 23,787]

Old Dee - I acknowledge that the 'experts' will have seen a few more games than me, but from the many matches I am stupid enough to watch each week, I'd still stand by my strong suspicion that NN's selection was not purely based on form and (on-field) value to his club. Nothing to do with the Watts v NN comparison.

For what it's worth. my view on that is:

NN is over-hyped and Watts over-scrutinized,

That it is hard to determine which of them has been significantly more valuable to their teams which are in such different positions/playing groups,

That it is even harder to predict who will look best after 10 years,

That NN may well have developed at MFC and then shot through to WA just as he was getting into his stride to our dismay.

For all these reasons I think there is no need to despair or even worry about the choice yet.

I think that is a given.

Not selecting him IMO was the correct move.

BY the way who was no.3 pick that year I cannot remember.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Stephen Hill. Also missed out on Steele Sidebottom and Daniel Rich.

This whole discussion to me is a complete waste of time. You can't fix this problem by complaining about it, the people who made the decisions have already moved on and there's no edit+undo button so I reckon it's time to let it go.

[Little Richard 6,262]

Stephen Hill. Also missed out on Steele Sidebottom and Daniel Rich.

This whole discussion to me is a complete waste of time. You can't fix this problem by complaining about it, the people who made the decisions have already moved on and there's no edit+undo button so I reckon it's time to let it go.

Tell that to Range Rover.

Edit. Though he seems to have disappeared

Edited September 20, 2012 by ThePassenger

[old55 23,548]

AA ruckman doesn't finish in top 10 in Eagles B&F.