I think everyone looks quicker when they are sking down hill!

Trengove's pace never got me exited really, it was more his disposal, set shots at goals and contested marking for his size. Thus the Jimmy Bartel comparison that I and others have suggested.

He's had a very average year by the standards we should expect from him, but give the bloke a break. He's very young and the burden of captaining a side is enough reson in my eyes to give him the benifit of the doubt, and see how he goes in 2013.

He's got plenty of mates in the sub par year club.

The main problem DemonWA is none of them were drafted at no.2 spot.

The other problem is I think we play him out of position.

I think he is a small forward who occasional goes into the centre.

I do not believe he is a midfielder.

Because we have bugger all we are trying to make him one.

love to be wrong I just do not see it.

JT has a footy brain and many of you will find in future years he will look quicker because he reads the play so well he will get to places quicker. Captaincy has nothing to do with it, is being taught a different role and as I have said continuously has yet to significantly lower his colours to an opponent all season.

Certainly players on our list with a lot more concerns to the footy department

The main problem DemonWA is none of them were drafted at no.2 spot.

Exactly.

Changed body shape, lack of confidence, who knows? Maybe he's just not as good as we'd hoped. It happens.

The first two possibilities are rectifiable; the third one is just nonsense in the context of the question I posed. He's slower than last year because he's not as good as we'd hoped? Ok.

The first two possibilities are rectifiable; the third one is just nonsense in the context of the question I posed. He's slower than last year because he's not as good as we'd hoped? Ok.

We'll see. Present signs are not great unfortunately. You'd surely have to acknowledge that.

We'll see. Present signs are not great unfortunately. You'd surely have to acknowledge that.

I'm not going to continue this argument because we are clearly thinking on different planes of logic here and I think yours is completely irrational. I think you're just taking what you've seen recently and projecting that forward forever; my view is that history shows with this particular player that there's a much greater range of possibilities that should be considered before we all start throwing ourselves off the proverbial cliff.

I'm not going to continue this argument because we are clearly thinking on different planes of logic here and I think yours is completely irrational. I think you're just taking what you've seen recently and projecting that forward forever; my view is that history shows with this particular player that there's a much greater range of possibilities that should be considered before we all start throwing ourselves off the proverbial cliff.

I hope you're right but I think my concerns (which others share) are completely rational, based on a season's worth of 'meh' football from Trengove - not just 'what I've seen recently'.

Look, I'm a very open minded person and I'm just waiting for you to persuade me with a good argument. The "he's injured" explanation isn't perfect, but it's at least grounded in logic. Fact 1: He wasn't slow last year or the year before. Fact 2: He's slow this year. Something's changed between years 1 and 2 and year 3, so anyone who thinks logically will want to understand what's changed. Potential causes? I can't see any other than injury, body not yet up to the increased workload, et cetera et cetera. Your argument seems to be: "it's not injury, it's some other thing that I don't know what and anyone who can't see that sleeps with a teddy bear by their pillow". It doesn't stand up to the reasonability test.

Unless you can give me something to go on, you can't expect any points for credibility from me, or anyone else wading through the pages of this thread just waiting to be convinced.

This is the perfect post. Everyone who considers themselves a reasonable person should pin a poster of this to their wall and refer to it any time they find themselves arguing with someone whose passion has gotten in the way of logic.

I'm not going to continue this argument because we are clearly thinking on different planes of logic here and I think yours is completely irrational. I think you're just taking what you've seen recently and projecting that forward forever; my view is that history shows with this particular player that there's a much greater range of possibilities that should be considered before we all start throwing ourselves off the proverbial cliff.

Not so sure about that Nasher the cliff has certain attractions at present!

Trengove was by no means ever quick. Apparently Watts has one of the fastest testing times so I don't pay too much attention to it.

Edit: Typo

Trengove was by no means ever been quick. Apparently Watts has one of the fastest testing times so I don't pay too much attention to it.

Very true.

A very young Patrick Dangerfield had 20 disposals and five inside 50s in his fifth game. He won the Rising Star vote for the week and was quickly touted as the next big thing.

I followed him carefully from then on. It was mainly for Dream Team purposes, but I thought he was a serious talent nonetheless.

Neil Craig switched him to a crumbing forward role for two years and his abilities were frustrated by the move.

Needless to say, on finding his rightful place this year he has become an elite force.

I saw enough in 2010 to suggest Trengove can be just as good. But this year he has been played upside down - asked not to find his own ball but stymie his opponent's.

He's recorded the second-most tackles this year but despite his staunchly defensive mindset, he is sixth for disposals per game, fourth in contested possessions, and fourth in total Supercoach points.

If you wish to cash in your Trengove shares based on this year's anomaly then please, get in the queue. I'm waiting at the front desk.

I hope you're right but I think my concerns (which others share) are completely rational, based on a season's worth of 'meh' football from Trengove - not just 'what I've seen recently'.

Seriously mate, you've been given sound logic by Nasher, but it's just not infiltrating. You're a lot like KB. You can't admit that just maybe you're jumping the gun on a 20 year old that had a terrific first two years by 99% of young midfielder's standards. I'll try too ...

Case 1: Adam Simpson was pick 14 in the 1993 national draft. He played no games in his first year and he played 2 in his second. In his third year he played every game and averaged 10 disposals. In his 4th year he averaged 12 and in his 5th year he averaged 15. For the remainder of his career his cumulative average was well over 20. He went on to play 306 games and captain his club. Btw, Simpson never had pace.

Case 2: Scotty Thompson: In Thompson's third year at Melbourne he averaged 12 disposals per game. In his 4th year he averaged 15 disposals per game. In his 5th year and first at Adelaide he averaged 18 disposals per game. As we know he developed into one of the games best mids. Btw, Thompson never had pace.

Case 3: Jimmy Bartel: I actually see a bit of Trengove in Bartel. Bartel, a former pick 8, was dropped in his third year. I actually remember it really well. But rather than me tell you here's an account of those early years: "Despite an impressive debut season, Bartel struggled to maintain his spot within the team during the 2003 AFL season, featuring in only 13 senior games. Averaging just 12 disposals a game, Bartel was unable to help the Cats qualify for the finals series for the third successive season.[3] After just two senior appearances to begin the 2004 AFL season, Bartel was again dropped back to the VFL and instructed by coaching staff to work on particular aspects of his game. Despite compiling a series of impressive games in the VFL, Bartel was deliberately made to work hard over a two month period before earning a Round 10 recall into the senior side." Btw, Bartel never had pace.

There are plenty of other examples, but ultimately you either believe in him, or you don't. I believe my own eyes and therefore I trust what they say. With development and strength Trengove will become a gun in years to come. I accept you can't see that, but what you need to understand is that plenty of the games best mids struggled in their early years. This seems to be a major stumbling block for you.

Trengove was by no means ever quick. Apparently Watts has one of the fastest testing times so I don't pay too much attention to it.

Edit: Typo

And there is a hell of a lot of difference between sprinting 20 meters on a set track to sprinting 20 meters at a bouncing ball with a couple of 90kg blokes putting pressure on you. Hence maybe his confidence is down or something like that in regards to speed. The testing shouldn't be much of a consideration.

However RR you say he didn't set the world on fire in his first couple of years but in an article re Toby Greene the other week there was a list of the top ten highest disposal averages for a debut season and Trenners was on that. His first year or two were pretty damn impressive. Let's just wait until next year hey?

I was sitting down and watching some youtube highlights with my 5-year old son( he is already a tragic), and I noticed something I hadn't seen all year.

Cut through to about 1.40 mins and see if you can see something a bit foreign to us this year.

I was sitting down and watching some youtube highlights with my 5-year old son( he is already a tragic), and I noticed something I hadn't seen all year.

Cut through to about 1.40 mins and see if you can see something a bit foreign to us this year.

[media=]

Trengove chasing tail? That was pretty much our staple diet all season I would've thought.

Is it Maric getting a game? Good spot though. Grimes' comments about the intensity of training this year would help to clarify why we saw less of that kind of chase. Trengove will come good.

I was sitting down and watching some youtube highlights with my 5-year old son( he is already a tragic), and I noticed something I hadn't seen all year.

Cut through to about 1.40 mins and see if you can see something a bit foreign to us this year.

[media=]

Yeah, definitely carrying something this year. You don't slow down as a 20yo for no reason, sorry RR (KB) but you are WWWWWrrr....Good get Jerry.

Trengove chasing tail? That was pretty much our staple diet all season I would've thought.

You'd do yourself a bit more credit if you at least pretended to see other people's arguments. Clearly Trengove had pace in that game, but you fail to see it because it doesn't suit your agenda.