Tigers midfield probably had better potential than ours does now when Hardwick took over and the addition of Grigg has made a big difference.

We need three new mids I reckon - perhaps two in the draft including Jack V and then someone older.

Your neeld crusade is looking to be 2012 version of rpfc's quest for people to show blind faith in scully....

You're right. Hence the nod to Rpfc with my sig.

But it's not blind faith. It's genuine belief.

Bloody oath it is. If you can't believe in the future of the Demons - we might as well all go home now.

I think we're all aware of you views RR. You're obviously a man of your convictions and that is to be admired. Neeld has done a few good things so far but it hasn't exactly been a convincing journey so far. He is yet to show us any concrete evidence that he's a good coach.

Neeld's got a 3 year contract so we've really got no other option but to back him in. I hope he's our man, I'll give him more time, but my mind is not yet made up.

It's interesting that your using Damian Hardwick as a comparison. He realised early on that the gameplan wasn't working, will Neeld make any changes?

Starting Over

Damien Hardwick took the reins at Richmond at the start of 2010 and I remember watching the confusion apparent in Richmond players as they trying to execute the defensive-50 press known as Clarko's cluster - the same tactic that bamboozled the competition in 2008 to steer Hawthorn to a surprise grand final victory over Geelong.

The game evolved in that time and Hardwick, with a younger and less-talented group, had the courage to abandon the tactic after the Tigers lost nine straight games to start the season. Hardwick backed his players to win one-on-one contests all over the ground, rather than guard a certain patch of grass, and he got some success and found out more about his players in the process.

Absolutely correct. We must draft the two best mids available in November. It will be D-Day for the club. Our last roll of the dice at the card table.

Neeld will know exactly what he wants in the way of players come the end of this season (in fact, he probably already has a fair idea)... so it is going to be an interesting trade period for the Dees and I am sure he will be given free rein, so I expect to see the Dees taking a very aggressive stance in trying to close at least a couple of big deals.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/09/08/1094530699642.html?from=storyrhs

Pre-Clarkson Hawthorn - all over the shop.

Criticised coach search. Administration under fire.

Neeld needs to pick up some players that suit him. I expect that rather than avoiding players with mongrel, we will actively pursue those kinds. Which makes me happy.

Bloody oath it is. If you can't believe in the future of the Demons - we might as well all go home now.

My mind is flexible and only a hair's breadth away from belief. Will be easily swayed when CS and the gang of old boys [censored] off.

I'm with Range Rover on this.

What the hell are you playing at, Range Rover?

When there's so much to gripe about ... Garry Lyon; Ross Lyon; missing out on Sanderson/McCartney/every other coach in the land; whether we stuffed up in choosing Neeld; Cam Schwab the modern Machiavelli; recruiting; and more ...

So much fodder for misery and self-flagellation ...

... and you have the hide to come on here and talk about winning.

Now how about we resume normal service? Have you heard about Greece? Ain't it awful?

Very happy to see the Tigers who have been the whipping team in Vic & recruiting like ours very poor up till know for them!

WTF our list was rated better 1-2 yrs ago & in the last 6 months we are so far behind them!

They look like the play for each other & their coach, it appears on face value that Hardwick whilst hard would back his players & embrace them. Im not to sure about Neeld?? just an observation

It seems that there is a disconnect between our senior players & younger ones, who is to blame?

Just for you RR: 'It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt'.

Some of us in the 'New Guard' are seeking to put MFC ahead of the rest as a future leading club, not just find the latest supposedly successful club's plan and follow it!

Another perspective on silence:

The Henrik Hudson School District Library Media Centre provides a model essay for students which ends with the words,

Perpetrators, collaborators, bystanders, victims: we can be clear about three of these categories. The bystander, however, is the fulcrum. If there are enough notable exceptions, then protest reaches a critical mass. We don’t usually think of history as being shaped by silence, but, as English philosopher Edmund Burke said, ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to say and do nothing.’

I honestly believe that we would have been poor under any new coaching regime a the moment. Our list needs a serious refresh.

Very happy to see the Tigers who have been the whipping team in Vic & recruiting like ours very poor up till know for them!

WTF our list was rated better 1-2 yrs ago & in the last 6 months we are so far behind them!

They look like the play for each other & their coach, it appears on face value that Hardwick whilst hard would back his players & embrace them. Im not to sure about Neeld?? just an observation

It seems that there is a disconnect between our senior players & younger ones, who is to blame?

It is a myth this notion of the players not embracing Neeld. Most are. A few sooks aren't. Such is life.

''He could not be any more open and encouraging. He is open to giving feedback no matter who it is and how you are going, but there are also non-negotiables. And the perception that is out there at the moment could not be further from the truth. He has just set a standard and it is an elite standard that we want to get to. We want to be a club that plays finals footy.''

- Nate Jones

It a myth this notion of the players not embracing Neeld. Most are. A few sooks aren't. Such is life.

''He could not be any more open and encouraging. He is open to giving feedback no matter who it is and how you are going, but there are also non-negotiables. And the perception that is out there at the moment could not be further from the truth. He has just set a standard and it is an elite standard that we want to get to. We want to be a club that plays finals footy.''

- Nate Jones

Problem is a few sooks that are highly paid can effect the whole side. Especially when they were regarded as leaders.

Just get on board Hardnut and back in your coach to succeed. It's as simple as that.

Wrong call RR. The process to choose a new coach was badly flawed. I will always be loyal to someone who is genuinely the chosen one and who shows ability!

I've lived through this before and backed the coach, but blind loyalty only leads to failure. It takes more courage to 'buck the system' when you know it is wrong.

It is a myth this notion of the players not embracing Neeld. Most are. A few sooks aren't. Such is life.

''He could not be any more open and encouraging. He is open to giving feedback no matter who it is and how you are going, but there are also non-negotiables. And the perception that is out there at the moment could not be further from the truth. He has just set a standard and it is an elite standard that we want to get to. We want to be a club that plays finals footy.''

- Nate Jones

Do you actually believe what players say to the media? I can see where you are coming from. But do you believe we have an administration and board that can make this club achieve great heights again.

Wrong call RR. The process to choose a new coach was badly flawed. I will always be loyal to someone who is genuinely the chosen one and who shows ability!

I've lived through this before and backed the coach, but blind loyalty only leads to failure. It takes more courage to 'buck the system' when you know it is wrong.

We are two months in?!

We are loyal because we knew the problems going into this, well except for those in pre-season dreaming of The Sydney Orgasm Game of 2010 © and the two solid games against the Pies in 2010, and he is 8 games into a 66 game contract...

Do you actually believe what players say to the media? I can see where you are coming from. But do you believe we have an administration and board that can make this club achieve great heights again.

Spoken like a true Dees supporter.

Get your head out of the sand Range Rover. We all want Mark Neeld to succeed as MFC coach. But the fact is we are playing insipid football at the moment and we have gone a mile backward this year with a slightly better playing list.

Believing in Neeld in such an evangelistic fashion is just delusional. Without question we will need to improve over the rest of the year for him to remain at the helm in 2013.

he is 8 games into a 66 game contract...

That actually makes me feel worse... Already lost over 12%...

Without question we will need to improve over the rest of the year for him to remain at the helm in 2013.

Pretty important point actually. You'd think he'd see out the year pretty much no matter what, but if there's no improvement I wouldn't be surprised to see patience run out.

Spoken like a true Dees supporter.

And certainly not like a stooge for Whiteboard Wednesday.

Get your head out of the sand Range Rover. We all want Mark Neeld to succeed as MFC coach. But the fact is we are playing insipid football at the moment and we have gone a mile backward this year with a slightly better playing list.

Believing in Neeld in such an evangelistic fashion is just delusional. Without question we will need to improve over the rest of the year for him to remain at the helm in 2013.

i don't think our playing list is slightly better than last year...THAT IS THE CRUX OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEM.

Until certain players are shown the door...rather than waiting for that "Breakout" Game...onfield improvement will be marginal at best.

Regardless of whoever is coaching.

Do you actually believe what players say to the media? I can see where you are coming from. But do you believe we have an administration and board that can make this club achieve great heights again.

Given the exemplary conduct of Nathan Jones both on and off the field none of us should have any reason to doubt his words.

Re the admin and the board ... who knows. But I'm not willing to scrub them 8 games into a new coach's contract and neither should you.

i don't think our playing list is slightly better than last year...THAT IS THE CRUX OF OUR CURRENT PROBLEM.

Until certain players are shown the door...rather than waiting for that "Breakout" Game...onfield improvement will be marginal at best.

Regardless of whoever is coaching.

Not much different, but I would say Clark for Scully is a win in the short term.