As a distinct possibility as a sore ass after a night of red Thai curry

Calm down Rusty.......we get it, you just posted the stats - no need for knickers & knots.

I stand by my comment regarding the stats, however that doesn't make you responsible for the original # of games comparison - happy with that clarification?

I'm sure those who were paying attention didn't think any less of you

At least one of you got it....and yeh...i'm always happy .... Cheers mate

Rusty mentioned learning a 'defensive style' of game. I'm curious why we would want to learn a style that is out of date, as is already being shown by other clubs and especially when we have a more attack oriented list. IMO we need to be innovative on the attacking side, which as was also said, is the best form of defence. (No criticism of you Rusty.)

I'm ok with Neeld's defensive game plan and i think it will hold us in good stead once the the players get it ...or Neeld goes out and gets the players that will hopefully get it lol. I just don't think it was necessary for him to start with a complete rebuild from the ground up and place so much emphasis on the defensive aspects he wants them to learn at the apparent expense of their attacking style of play and skill set. And yes, attack is one form of defense and an effective one. Score board pressure can have a pretty amazing impact at times.

With a fairly inexperienced list i just think it was important to set the tone early with a few wins and get the boys believing in the coach and the coaching team as such. Give them a little light and a positive mind set to begin with....then they'd be all ears and open to pretty much anything! It's a sell job for Neeld as much as it is for the players in those early stages. If that meant sacrificing a little in terms of allowing the boys to continue their "attacking" game style and mind set at the expense of certain defensive aspects of their game in the short term, then so be it.

Once a few early wins are under the belt and the place is humming a little, then start placing more effort and time into the defensive side piece by piece!

In addition there's a "sell / marketing" side to the whole club. It's a business at the end of the day and a cheap early win or 2...or even 3....would have given the admin/marketing side some ammunition with which to go out and hammer the membership drive. And maybe get a few more of the 6,000, that apparently haven't signed from last year, to renew their memberships as well.

I guess what i'm trying to say in short is, that there's different ways to skin a cat. The end result (defensively) would probably be the same or very similar after 2 or 3 years. Neeld would have gotten his way regardless here. But IMO we had a chance to implement a fast break at the outset using a more considered and calculated approach in order to get the Neeld era (and most importantly our membership $/numbers & potential sponsorship $) off to a more positive start from the get go.

It's amazing what a few early wins do to the whole psyche of a club, the players and the supporters (read potential members).

I'll fess up, right now my morale regarding the footy is at the lowest it's ever been. I go week-in, week-out, but don't even put out the hope that we'll get a win. I'm looking for performances from the younger guys and hoping we don't get flogged too badly.

I know long-term it's going to be a good thing, yada yada, but by god it's depressing now. What a win would do for me...

Jones is barely 24 and Frawley is 23. Hardly senior players. I was not potting individual players but the group. I would only exclude Jamar.

If you think Neeld took over side similar to side/list that Ross Lyon took over then you are greatly mistaken.

With you on this, Jones and Frawley are not senior players yet but they along with the skippers and a few others they have had to stand up and take the reigns before their time. I've had a go at our over 25's in the past but there are not many of them left now. Jimmy Mac was the only leader among them and the club was at fault for letting him go.

I heard the Ross Lyon interview and the point he was making was about getting buy in from the players. If you are changing the way they play it really helps to get an early win to show the coach is not a total dick h. Neeld has taken on a very difficult assignment and without a win it must be that much harder particularly with some of our senior players and some of their proteges who have had things their own way for way too long.

Maybe this will help you get why i posted the stats to mull over....was never in support of any argument ....but even then you two (RR & Tricky dicky) probably still wont get it....HELLO....KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK....wakey wakey....anyone home???

Still does not explain why you went to the trouble of listing a phone book of statistics about the two teams which indicates a relative disposition about the two sides which is completely false. Youcould have easily countered Biffens assertion about the number of players playing over 100 games without resorting to the roll out of superfluous stats

And your elongated effort was in support WYL's point of view. Re read post #88. The irony of accusing others of not getting it will be unsurprisingly lost on you. Good luck with the knock knock jokes.

Still does not explain why you went to the trouble of listing a phone book of statistics about the two teams which indicates a relative disposition about the two sides which is completely false. Youcould have easily countered Biffens assertion about the number of players playing over 100 games without resorting to the roll out of superfluous stats

And your elongated effort was in support WYL's point of view. Re read post #88. The irony of accusing others of not getting it will be unsurprisingly lost on you. Good luck with the knock knock jokes.

Nah....it wasn't supporting anyone's point of view. I don't believe stats like that tell anywhere near the full story as to where the comparative lists at the 100+ end (or rookie end or whatever....covering all bases cause you're so anal) are rated on the field and their comparative quality in terms of the value they add to the teams. It's purely an indicator as to where our list is at (experience wise) versus another teams. Nor was i trying to trump Biff's comment. I figured he might have last year's stats in mind as he wasn't far off the mark in terms of how many 100+ gamers we had on the park on the fateful186 versus the cats that day.

Nor was i pumping up WYL. He don't need any help there lol. Was just offering the stats up for them (or others) to look at if they wanted as i had them at hand. In hindsight i probably should have only posted the breakdown of games played instead of the whole thing. So point taken on the overkill. But you got the intention all wrong.....again. Just because i find stats interesting to look at, doesn't mean i place a massive amount of weight on them. As we all know, you can build a case to support almost any argument by selectively picking out stats. Even i do it sometimes. Doesn't mean that i'm right and it doesn't mean the stats are correct in supporting that argument. It's just something to talk about at the end of the day and vent on i guess. The only thing i do like to see with them when they're being used is accuracy, wherever possible anyway (yeh that's me being anal now lol...but i even correct myself or the stats themselves sometimes if i've find out posthumously that i've posted or quoted stats that are a fair way off). Unfortunately you've taken it as an insult or something for some reason. No problems. Each to there own mate.

I said we were certainties to be 0 - 11 and I think it was Old55 who mocked me, well Old what do you reckon now?

I would say we will be 0 - 22 by seasons end but that's not a certainty only a probability. This is just a dreadful year for us and I think there will be quite a few "old names" missing from the team in 2013. I also think there will be a lot of pain in 2013 and the coach will have to do a lot to repair the damage this year's done to the club.

We wont win a game this year. We arent even close.

Commonly known as dead in the water.

Right now I am beginning to think Dean Bailey was in fact a rocket scientist

The only positive i can give is that every loss is one game closer to your next win.

Commonly known as dead in the water.

Right now I am beginning to think Dean Bailey was in fact a rocket scientist

haha - you cheered me up when i thought that was impossible. the siren was like a bullet to a dying dog.

Commonly known as dead in the water.

Right now I am beginning to think Dean Bailey was in fact a rocket scientist

Can hardly wait for July to come so I can get away from all of this Oldy.

We copped heaps when we said things were wrong last year, I wonder if the smarties that said we were wrong have changed their tune now. Not a bad recruiter Prendergast was he; and Cameron before him, he was a real gem.

I doubt I've seen a worse playing list than the one we have and a bigger set of [censored] senior players. Have a look at the possession count the former leaders had today; and they wonder why they are no longer leaders.

I think Beamer should tell his manager to start looking at VFL clubs for next year, I doubt any other AFL club would be bothered with him.

Very true - all our highest ball winners were the kids. Bailey wanted to sack the dead wood and get games into the young players. Neeld needs to continue this - p!ss all the old players off and play ONLY the kids.

And to think the AFL warned Melbourne about draft tampering.

Hi Robbie I am having problems with the site ( let alone the MFC ) Cannot attached a post so this will have to do.

Yes mate not too many defenders with there heads up at present.

It does not give me any joy to say I told you so.

Are we wittnessing the beginning of the end I am beginning to think so.

If it is can it be quick please I cannot take death by a thousand cuts.

Please god the green dream

And to think the AFL warned Melbourne about draft tampering.

Not so sure ickey11 I think this is the best case tampering I have every seen.We have fooled everyone into thinking we are hopeless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only positive i can give is that every loss is one game closer to your next win.

Which will be which year?

Hawks - Yeah, we're f**ked.

Swans - No Goodes, we're a chance.

Blues - Just going at the moment. We're a chance.

Bombers - Heaps of injuries, and we should have Jurrah back by then.

Pies - Western Bulldogs dominated them for 2 quarters, and matched them in the third. We're a chance.

I think we can win 2 of the next 5. Geelong are the best team of all time, and we matched them for contested possession. This draw isn't as scary as it was three weeks ago. Carn Dees!!!

Glad 0-11 didn't eventuate. Let's smash the Pies next week!

Which will be which year?

This year round Ten. Believe

At least one of you got it....and yeh...i'm always happy .... Cheers mate

Hope your happy today Rusty

GO DEES

Bulldogs and Bombers? Really? Serious?

Honestly, at the moment, it looks like a winless year and I include GWS in that as well.

As I said, Bulldogs and Bombers our best chances! :-)

Hope your happy today Rusty

GO DEES

Yeh. I was stoked mate.When i saw the ugly writing on the wall earlier in the year, all i asked was for Neeld & the Boys to either find a way to win before the half way mark of the season OR at the very least give us a never-say-die hard nosed contest for a full four quarters.

We got that plus some in the end eh. The boys were finally set loose and the mind set changed in a 50/50 situation so that WE were the ones hunting the ball instinctively for a change, instead of the defenisve mind set we saw for most of the previous 9 rounds where we were way too concsious of our opponent and what they were doing even when they didn't have the ball.

I managed to watch the first half again from last week. Tappy, Blease, Jones Boy, Moloney, McKenzie, Nicholson and even J McDonald (and others in cameos) showed amazing desparation (smothers/2nd efforts/blocks/shepards etc), hardness at the contest (lower in the contest in many cases....read Tappy!) and great tackling (even gang tackling at times) that ruffled the usual Bombres' arrogance and effectiveness in this area and upset their usual first posession/high effective first clearance % game.style. I'm also a realist. The rain and the Bombres poor disposal efficiency % / poor conversion around goals early helped us stay with them in that first half. But the second half was no fluke. Four quarters of desparate instinctive hard footy doesn't come by accident.

Lets hope the boys can bring that same intensity and desparation (and footy smarts in their decision making/choices) this week. Add the hard edge at the contest, numbers around the ball and a rock solid defense, i reckon we beat the pies today as well.

Cheers DP

P.S. We also saw great contributions/desparation and footy smarts from players we wouldn't have expected to see this from earlier in the year such as Sellar, Joel Mac and Morton. Things are turning and the hard work's finally starting to show some fruits. The injection of speed in Blease and Nicholson (speed/run & carry/ take opposition on/moving the ball quickly through b4 press can set up effectively and breaking lines) has made a huge difference as well (obviously). Oh, Rivers & Watts were also super down back. And i'm wrapped to see Garland finally out of defense. Hopefully he stays further up the field as he has a naturally attacking mindset not suited to playing a lock down roll down back IMO (maybe the odd week if needed yes....but not week in and out).