I'm going to be the cynic and say that a lot of players haven't sprouted due to the losing culture that has plagued the club of late.

Of late!

6 years ago is hardly late it is an iternity ago

I listened to Mark Mclure sum up the Dees yesterday and it hit a nerve but it was true when I analysed what he said. We have more talent than Brisbane, we know it and Brisbane knew it but they were prepared to put in the hard work and run to support each other or provide an option. Mclure believes Neeld will continue with his plans and IHO it is the right thing to do, get rid of the older players refusing to conform and play those willing to stick to the team ethos and reap the benefits.

Stan ALVES chimed in comparing the Saints under Lyon in 07 ealry on refusing to conform and he now regrets not moving the players on earlier in the season. ALVES backed it up by saying Neeld needs to act now and he thinks he will starting from this week.

So for those who say we rate our list as better than they are I don't agree the problem is we rate a lot of them on talent, which they have an abundance of but f%#k me we need a lot of hard runners out there, mission can get them as fit as he likes but you have to want to run and go beyong the pain barrier. Yes it's only Round 1 but we need to make the right decisions I beleive in the talent just need to weed out those who don't conform no matter who they are.

I listened to Mark Mclure sum up the Dees yesterday and it hit a nerve but it was true when I analysed what he said. We have more talent than Brisbane, we know it and Brisbane knew it but they were prepared to put in the hard work and run to support each other or provide an option. Mclure believes Neeld will continue with his plans and IHO it is the right thing to do, get rid of the older players refusing to conform and play those willing to stick to the team ethos and reap the benefits.

Stan ALVES chimed in comparing the Saints under Lyon in 07 ealry on refusing to conform and he now regrets not moving the players on earlier in the season. ALVES backed it up by saying Neeld needs to act now and he thinks he will starting from this week.

So for those who say we rate our list as better than they are I don't agree the problem is we rate a lot of them on talent, which they have an abundance of but f%#k me we need a lot of hard runners out there, mission can get them as fit as he likes but you have to want to run and go beyong the pain barrier. Yes it's only Round 1 but we need to make the right decisions I beleive in the talent just need to weed out those who don't conform no matter who they are.

Spot on PSD. Neeld must act now and as a trained teacher, he would know it very well.

St Dee - you've made my day. I hope he does - we are about 10 years too late for a hardass coach.

After 5 years of rebuilding and tanking.... I mean drafting our list has pretty much come together. Is there anyway possible this list could win a flag in the next 10 years or are we going to see another rebuild with fresh air (actually probably dust) still next to that 1964 premiership cup??

Yes.

But there's Now a lot of learning how to play AFL to learn, & how to be a leader to learn.

Some want others to do it all.

I listened to Mark Mclure sum up the Dees yesterday and it hit a nerve but it was true when I analysed what he said. We have more talent than Brisbane, we know it and Brisbane knew it but they were prepared to put in the hard work and run to support each other or provide an option. Mclure believes Neeld will continue with his plans and IHO it is the right thing to do, get rid of the older players refusing to conform and play those willing to stick to the team ethos and reap the benefits.

Stan ALVES chimed in comparing the Saints under Lyon in 07 ealry on refusing to conform and he now regrets not moving the players on earlier in the season. ALVES backed it up by saying Neeld needs to act now and he thinks he will starting from this week.

So for those who say we rate our list as better than they are I don't agree the problem is we rate a lot of them on talent, which they have an abundance of but f%#k me we need a lot of hard runners out there, mission can get them as fit as he likes but you have to want to run and go beyong the pain barrier. Yes it's only Round 1 but we need to make the right decisions I beleive in the talent just need to weed out those who don't conform no matter who they are.

Yes.

Prima Donna's, we are the BEST @ Making Prima Donna's. We the supporters create them. I want us to be the worst at creating Prima Donna's.

We've done it for decades. Its all we've done.

Look. We now have a depth of talent that we Can use to replace player for player until the work ethic changes to a healthy work ethic.

We have to start to use the Selection table to discipline players.

Simple, don't play hard & to team Ethos, > OUT !!!

I honestly believe that Adem Yze - this long out of the game - would have had a bigger impact if he'd walked out than many.

To win a premiership you need 4-5 A-Grade players - we have potentially one or two in Trengove & Frawley but there is no guarantee they will get there.

If I had to go through the list I would put a line through the following players;

Bartram, Bate, Bennell, Davey, Dunn, Fitzpatrick, Green, Jetta, Macdonald, Martin, Moloney, Morton, Rivers & Spencer

That is 14 out of 38 and that is being generous. I have serious question marks next to the following;

Bail, Blease, Cook, Gawn, Gysberts, Jamar, Jones, Jurrah, Sellar, Strauss & Sylvia.

That is another 11 which is 25 out of 38 players on our senior list who either aren't good enough, aren't consistent enough or go missing when the pressures on. Of the rest the majority are kids who are untested.

So to answer your question this list cannot win a premiership. We have serious deficiencies in our list and our culture. We lack a crumbing forward, one-two quality ball users off half back who can shut down small forwards like Milne and Ballantyne, 2-3 top line midfielders who can go forward and kick goals, at least one key forward and possibly two.

It has been obvious since 2007 that we would never compete with the current crop.

That means, until Green, Davey, Rivers, Bate, Dunn, etc. are gone, and the older players are Grimes, Frawley, Garland, Jones, Petterd, etc. we will not be where we need to be.

We needed a cleanout, but the problem was that so so much of our list was made up of NQR senior players, means it was always going to take a long time.

Long-term development players like Morton, Watts and Blease haven't expedited this process - they've exacerbated the problem.

It doesn't necessarily mean they were the wrong choices.

But I believe in Daniher's time we mortgaged our future.

give me the reverend any day over this train-wreck

with more backup staff and top training conditions now, how good would ND be

we are a loooong way from even producing anything like nd was able to deliver

that's reality

give me the reverend any day over this train-wreck

with more backup staff and top training conditions now, how good would ND be

we are a loooong way from even producing anything like nd was able to deliver

that's reality

100% agreement a lot on here forget he got us into a GF

And we got absolutely demolished.

And we got absolutely demolished.

Yep. Game over in 5 minutes.

I remember it well

I've been trying to forget it for more than 10 years but the memory is still vivid despite trying to erase it with inhuman amounts of alcohol and other substances. There is only one cure and it is the succes of cup number 13.

Edited April 1, 201213 yr by Dr. Gonzo

I've been trying to forget it for more than 10 years but the memory is still vivid despite trying to erase it with inhuman amounts of alcohol and other substances. There is only one cure and it is the succes of cup number 13.

Yes of course. But we didn't even make the finals in 2001!! So Melbourne.

I've been trying to forget it for more than 10 years but the memory is still vivid despite trying to erase it with inhuman amounts of alcohol and other substances. There is only one cure and it is the succes of cup number 13.

DrG every supporter for every club wants a premiership cup, so what?

we have been talking up premiership windows ad nauseum the last few seasons whilst we languish near the bottom

I'm sick of premiership/flag discussions. I want to walk before we run. That means winning a few games and being accountable

if we can do that then i might start dreaming again

put away the rose tinted glasses, focus on the basics and cut out the crap flag talk or there won't be a MFC in a few years time

Lets stop putting "the complete clean-out" talk and put it down to the emotional drain of losing Jim Stynes after such a long and bitter fight .

I've vented my spleen about softness from players .A lot of our play was reactionary .They will get a good kick up the arse and being away from us next week may be good for them .

Does anyone think we have a chance against the Meth Coast Eagles?

Or am I just searching in vain for hope?

Lets stop putting "the complete clean-out" talk and put it down to the emotional drain of losing Jim Stynes after such a long and bitter fight .

I've vented my spleen about softness from players .A lot of our play was reactionary .They will get a good kick up the arse and being away from us next week may be good for them .

Does anyone think we have a chance against the Meth Coast Eagles?

Or am I just searching in vain for hope?

I like that biffo

I'll watch with interest to see how we respond both in vigour and also at the selection table but I don't expect to win until round 3.

DrG every supporter for every club wants a premiership cup, so what?

we have been talking up premiership windows ad nauseum the last few seasons whilst we languish near the bottom

I'm sick of premiership/flag discussions. I want to walk before we run. That means winning a few games and being accountable

if we can do that then i might start dreaming again

put away the rose tinted glasses, focus on the basics and cut out the crap flag talk or there won't be a MFC in a few years time

If you notice I didn't actually begin the thread, I was only commenting on it. You bought up ND and old dee said he would have him back any day. All I was doing was pointing out that ND created a team of soft front runners which created the culture that led to what we have today. It was under ND that guys like Yze, White & Johnstone used to get games week after week on reputation alone while others like Jolly & Scott Thompson left us for greener pastures.

Daniher had a skilled team who didn't like the hard stuff so we looked good against teams around or below our level and crumbled against anyone as soon as they applied some pressure to us which led to us dropping games to teams who had no right to beat us (Carlton 2004 & 2006x2 come to mind instantly). How many games did we win under ND that you can honestly say we had no right to win? Maybe one in his first year against WCE at Subiaco. Other than that we continually shot ourselves in the foot and cost ourselves ladder position because Daniher refused to hold the senior group accountable and refused to implement any sort of defensive game plan to compliment the attacking style we played well.

The problem is exactly this.

People putting together a 'premiership list'. It's honestly hilarious.

In order for a team to play well and click into gear, each player must be able to play their position to their best ability in order for full functionality and teamwork to take place.

Name me more than 5 players on our side who have had a specific role and position to play over the last 5 -7 years... You can't. And you won't.

As soon as we get 22 players playing to their maximum potential and knowing exactly where and how to play, where and how to run, when and how to attack, when and how to defend, where and how to zone..etc etc,

that's when you will see our side on the improve.

So for now, it doesn't matter how many individuals people on this forum list as 'potential premiership players'. Fantasise about it all you want, because that's all the enjoyment you will ever get if our list doesn't learn how to play

as a team, for each other or to a specific role they must adhere to.

The 'premiership window' and the 'premiership fantasy list' is something I cringe at everytime it's mentioned.

Of course high draft picks will help the cause. But not if they don't know how to play to the way a team needs them to in order for ultimate success.

If you notice I didn't actually begin the thread, I was only commenting on it. You bought up ND and old dee said he would have him back any day. All I was doing was pointing out that ND created a team of soft front runners which created the culture that led to what we have today. It was under ND that guys like Yze, White & Johnstone used to get games week after week on reputation alone while others like Jolly & Scott Thompson left us for greener pastures.

Daniher had a skilled team who didn't like the hard stuff so we looked good against teams around or below our level and crumbled against anyone as soon as they applied some pressure to us which led to us dropping games to teams who had no right to beat us (Carlton 2004 & 2006x2 come to mind instantly). How many games did we win under ND that you can honestly say we had no right to win? Maybe one in his first year against WCE at Subiaco. Other than that we continually shot ourselves in the foot and cost ourselves ladder position because Daniher refused to hold the senior group accountable and refused to implement any sort of defensive game plan to compliment the attacking style we played well.

there was a fair amount of sarcasm in my comments

I wasn't praising the reverend as much as saying that give me a team of 'soft front runners' who win a few games rather a team of 'soft non runners'

I think too that nd cops a bit too much blame given the lack of support, money and atrocious training conditions he had to put up with

(over) looking after his players was probably necessary to keep them together at the club in such rough times

anyway he and northey were the most successful coaches at the club since norm smith and deserve at least better than some give

Fair enough, its Sunday night and my sarcasm metre is well and truly busted after the result yesterday and nursing a hangover today from the wedding I went to yesterday. It might be time for a bex and a good lie down.

To win a premiership you need 4-5 A-Grade players - we have potentially one or two in Trengove & Frawley but there is no guarantee they will get there.

If I had to go through the list I would put a line through the following players;

Bartram, Bate, Bennell, Davey, Dunn, Fitzpatrick, Green, Jetta, Macdonald, Martin, Moloney, Morton, Rivers & Spencer

That is 14 out of 38 and that is being generous. I have serious question marks next to the following;

Bail, Blease, Cook, Gawn, Gysberts, Jamar, Jones, Jurrah, Sellar, Strauss & Sylvia.

That is another 11 which is 25 out of 38 players on our senior list who either aren't good enough, aren't consistent enough or go missing when the pressures on. Of the rest the majority are kids who are untested.

So to answer your question this list cannot win a premiership. We have serious deficiencies in our list and our culture. We lack a crumbing forward, one-two quality ball users off half back who can shut down small forwards like Milne and Ballantyne, 2-3 top line midfielders who can go forward and kick goals, at least one key forward and possibly two.

As many know from my posts I live in the west and hate the f%&kin Eagles more than anything in the world. In 2002 Worsfold took over a list with Jakovich, Gardiner and Cousins as their A graders. They had some promising youngsters in Kerr & Glass and honest workers in Embley, Banfield and Braun. Cox was a lanky rookie who had no tank and couldn't kick but he had heart and desire. I watched that team develop from 02-04 with Judd coming into the side to make Himself, Cousins & Kerr the up & coming midfield to take over from Brissy's fab four.

We all know what that list did and how they made average players like Hansen, Lynch & Hunter look good. Whilst it's doom & gloom for many here things can change very quickly whilst it hasn't for us for a long time those we write off as being unsure of or going nowhere may surprise us

Lets stop putting "the complete clean-out" talk and put it down to the emotional drain of losing Jim Stynes after such a long and bitter fight .

I've vented my spleen about softness from players .A lot of our play was reactionary .They will get a good kick up the arse and being away from us next week may be good for them .

Does anyone think we have a chance against the Meth Coast Eagles?

Or am I just searching in vain for hope?

If we have 22 players who are willing to put their body on the line and do their job you are always a chance and at least you can be admired for giving your all. West Coast have Cox, Glass & Kennedy as genuine A graders, Kerr's best days are now not as regular as they were but what they do is play to a plan. So Neeld needs to identify the 22 he can rely upon to do what he asks, so no matter who those 22 are if he does that we will not see a repeat of last years effort in Perth