Barry Prendergast gone

[Lutz 76]

Bit early to judge a skinny KPF after a single year on the list, isn't it?

I don't think Neeld's M.O. is only bringing in players that can compete straight away.

It's just that he saw it's what we desperately lacked and needed when he arrived.

[sylvinator 96]

Got no gripe with the Howe selection DeezNutz. My thoughts were specifically about pick 12 which I'm sure you'll agree is a very valuable pick, the type which can make or break a recruiter.

You're an absolute fool for judging a 196cm KPP kid when he's a teenager old who's had no pre-season and only one full season. Particularly in light of the fact he showed some great signs at VFL level already.

You were probably the guy saying Watts is a dud pick when he was 19. You probably were also the guy that said Jack Reiwoldt or Colin Garland or James Frawley were duds after they showed almost nothing in their first season.

You will be proven wrong, but I know you're the type of poster who even after being proven wrong, will go on to condemn the next teenage KPP. When will people learn. Careers are made up of potentially 12+ years of service. Teenage KPPs almost never dominate from the get go. You will see the best of Cook and Watts when they hit 22 years old.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Bit early to judge a skinny KPF after a single year on the list, isn't it?

I don't think Neeld's M.O. is only bringing in players that can compete straight away.

It's just that he saw it's what we desperately lacked and needed when he arrived.

You're an absolute fool for judging a 196cm KPP kid when he's a teenager old who's had no pre-season and only one full season. Particularly in light of the fact he showed some great signs at VFL level already.

You were probably the guy saying Watts is a dud pick when he was 19. You probably were also the guy that said Jack Reiwoldt or Colin Garland or James Frawley were duds after they showed almost nothing in their first season.

You will be proven wrong, but I know you're the type of poster who even after being proven wrong, will go on to condemn the next teenage KPP. When will people learn. Careers are made up of potentially 12+ years of service. Teenage KPPs almost never dominate from the get go. You will see the best of Cook and Watts when they hit 22 years old.

You're both taking what I've said out of context ... no surprise there of course. To Sylvinator in particular, understand what it is you are criticizing before you go labeling someone a fool, lest you yourself want to reveal yourself as one.

I have not judged Cook other than to say I believe Darling will turn out to be the better player of the two. There is nothing in that statement to indicate that I think Cook will be " a dud". Nothing.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Range Rover

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

BP's resignation may give us a hint of the club's intentions in this years draft.

We could have three first round draft picks, but if our regular pick is used for Viney, and the two compensation picks are used to catch an established star (Pendlebury?) then it's going to be a quiet year for the recruiters. Their first pick may not pop up till the 30's if other clubs get priority picks.

As for Darling - yes I would have grabbed him asap. I couldn't believe he slipped to 12 in the draft because of some off-field publicity and a failure to grow to > 192 cms. Howe is a similar height, but when we had pick 12, Darling was available, and there was no guarantee we would get Howe with our next pick at 33.

They should have used pick 12 to get Darling, the best available player.

[Lutz 76]

Completely subjective, and not a view I agree with.

I'm happy we don't have Darling.

[mauriesy 7,287]

He is a good player but in time would just be adding to our dearth of medium forwards.

Do we have a dearth or an excess?

[bing181 9,218]

As for Darling - yes I would have grabbed him asap. I couldn't believe he slipped to 12 in the draft because of some off-field publicity and a failure to grow to > 192 cms.

... and a head injury.

You may well have grabbed him at 12. But no-one else wanted to.

[H_T 3,043]

JACK DARLING

Height: 191cm

Weight: 87kg

Games: 23

Goals: 24

JEREMY HOWE

Height: 190cm

Weight: 83kg

Games: 13

Goals: 18

So we got the U18 All Australian CHF AND a 'Jack Darling type' (only better)...

Yet you're still complaining?

I don't agree with this at all. Darling may be a couple of cm's shy of Watts and Cook's height but he's more than just another mid-sized forward. He's a pack buster with more aggression than Green , Jurrah, Howe and Petterd put together.

I think Jeremy Howe will be one to watch more of in respect to these attributes.

Disagree. Darling is just a mid-sized forward. He just happens to have a bit of mongrel in him. He is a good player but in time would just be adding to our dearth of medium forwards. Cook was the right option as a true key forward and I doubt if we had taken Darling we would have taken Howe. I expect Cook will develop fine however if we had not taken Cook I think another running mid such as either of the Smiths, Atley, Jacobs or Smedts who all went around that mark may not have gone astray.

I agree with this. Not many 196cm draftees are plug'n play types (as opposed to a mid sized 190cm Darling), and I expect Cook to start to enter the steeper section of the development J-curve later this year or next. In many ways he's still a yearling in racing terms. Smedts (one of my black bookers) will be one to watch with interest.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

I don't think you can look at just height and then say players play the same role.

David Neitz was/is 191cm and so is Scott Pendlebury. Comparing Howe and Darling is like comparing those two.

Darling wasn't passed over based on his footy ability but on other things which caused him to drop down the draft.

[H_T 3,043]

I think you're referring to other posters regarding height. I was referring to attributes.

Pendlebury isn't a forward, so that's not a good comparison. Darling and Howe are both medium sized forwards.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

I think you're referring to other posters regarding height. I was referring to attributes.

Pendlebury isn't a forward, so that's not a good comparison. Darling and Howe are both medium sized forwards.

The point I'm trying to make is they play completely different types of games and as their careers unfold will play different roles. Darling could easily end up playing the big KPF like Neitz and Terry Daniher (both about the same height) whereas Howe will play high forward and perhaps midfield and will not be the tall forward target that Darling may well be.

Their attributes are very different and they will play different roles.

[H_T 3,043]

On Howe, I'd be most surprised if he played midfield. Sure he appears to have a decent tank and can run, but I feel he's more your half forward, pushing/leading up, pushing back, floater, stretching his opponent and utilising his strengths in the air/on the lead.

The Pendlebury reference I made was just highlighting that your example of Neitz and Pendlebury - play(ed) completely different roles (ie. One stay at home FF and one specialist midfielder) when compared to the Howe and Darling roles, where there are some similarities in that they play both their roles, predominantly - if not always - forward of centre and in the F50.

edit:

Whilst acknowledging Darling may one day become the stay home FF and he may one day be better suited to the role and more suited to it than Howe. I believe they both will be quite active in the F50 - which is where I draw the similarities.

Edited January 17, 2012 by H_T

[mauriesy 7,287]

half forward pushing/leading up pushing back floater

So he's a midfielder?

[H_T 3,043]

So he's a midfielder?

He's no Pendlebury.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

He's no Pendlebury.

Pendlebury was used as someone the same height as Neitz who played a completely different role. I'm not saying Howe is a Pendlebury, just that if players are the same height it doesn't mean they play the same role.

I just see Howe and Darling as largely different types. Time will tell.

[old55 23,547]

Pendlebury was used as someone the same height as Neitz who played a completely different role. I'm not saying Howe is a Pendlebury, just that if players are the same height it doesn't mean they play the same role.

I just see Howe and Darling as largely different types. Time will tell.

What about Darling and Cook?

[RudeBoy 164]

Rudeboy has every right to suggest I read his book but he has posted enough on the subject on Demonland to warrant the odd question from posters. Far more than the three lines you credit him with.

The comparison with Hemingway is just silly. It's like comparing ... well it's like comparing you to me.

No offence taken by anyone. I guess the LJ story is quite complicated so all I'm suggesting is that reading the book should make things clearer. However, Rupert Betheras certainly played a big part in Liam becoming an AFL player.

[Roger Mellie 4,012]

Surely with your involvement with Jurrah and by default, the MFC, you've ditched the pies and jumped on board the demons?

[rolly 149]

personally i would like to see cook play a game at AFL level before i write him off, but thats just me...

[old dee 23,787]

personally i would like to see cook play a game at AFL level before i write him off, but thats just me...

rolly I would like to see him play a game at Casey that is good enough for him to get a game at AFL level.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Got no gripe with the Howe selection DeezNutz. My thoughts were specifically about pick 12 which I'm sure you'll agree is a very valuable pick, the type which can make or break a recruiter.

Point of my post being that anybody bitter about not getting Darling should be more than content with Howe- a similar size with a far more impressive first year. Neither of which being the KPF we were so badly lacking.

Using pick 12 on the U18 All Australian CHF is more than suffice for a club that was sitting as far down on the ladder as we were. Yes it will take time but people need to realise just that and not continually doubt him. Patience is a virtue.

They should have used pick 12 to get Darling, the best available player.

Best available at pick 12? That's rubbish. Darling went at pick 26 and I doubt he would have gone that early if West Coast hadn't have had their 2nd pick so soon. If Cook was off the table Billie Smedts, Ben Jacobs and Cameron Guthrie would have been far better options for pick 12 than Darling.

[DirtyDees DDC 176]

Point of my post being that anybody bitter about not getting Darling should be more than content with Howe- a similar size with a far more impressive first year. Neither of which being the KPF we were so badly lacking.

Using pick 12 on the U18 All Australian CHF is more than suffice for a club that was sitting as far down on the ladder as we were. Yes it will take time but people need to realise just that and not continually doubt him. Patience is a virtue.

Best available at pick 12? That's rubbish. Darling went at pick 26 and I doubt he would have gone that early if West Coast hadn't have had their 2nd pick so soon. If Cook was off the table Billie Smedts, Ben Jacobs and Cameron Guthrie would have been far better options for pick 12 than Darling.

Darling played 23 of 25 games with a side that finished in the top 4 last year, and was a key in the final quarter against the Blues.

He runs hard, tackles like a madman, takes contested pack marks in finals, and kicks a mile. I'd take Darling at 12. West Coast got a bargain at 26.

[Lutz 76]

Let's just see where Darling and Cook are at after 4-5 years...

A medium forward should be expected to produce straight away; a tall skinny KPF not so much.

The way Darling plays the game is irrelevant - a medium forward is what he is.

And there's a school of thought that things were much easier for Darling to have an impact because of his side's success.

Much like Fasolo, or Duncan / Menzel / Christensen / Vardy, or Smith / Stratton / Shiels / Savage.

It's a lot easier with good coaching & great players around you.

There's a reason why the top clubs seem to be getting gun kids late in the draft all the time.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Darling played 23 of 25 games with a side that finished in the top 4 last year, and was a key in the final quarter against the Blues.

He runs hard, tackles like a madman, takes contested pack marks in finals, and kicks a mile. I'd take Darling at 12. West Coast got a bargain at 26.

I would be extremely surprised if any club thinks they got it right in letting Darling slip to 26 (WCE aside), particularly following his season last year. He should only get better too.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is seemingly trying to justify a position that doesn't quite accord to reality IMO. Darling was one 'out of the box' - and, on any construction, that's a good thing. His character was apparently the issue, yet there were seemingly no character issues that transpired at all during last season - so the underlying fear proved to be entirely misguided. His skills and on field aggression were not ever in issue.

All this, 'let's wait and see in 4 years' starts to wear a bit thin after a while IMO. It's too convenient, and it effectively censors all such comparisons.

I'm absolutely stoked we picked Howe, but don't be thinking we pulled him completely out of the hat. When we passed over Darling at pick 12, there was absolutely no certainty Howe would be around in the 30s. Other clubs were tracking him too, including Collingwood I believe.

And Darling and Howe in the forward line would be awesome over the next 5 years or so - they'd compliment each other very nicely IMO, particularly with Mitch Clark, Jack Watts, Ricky Petterd and Liam Jurrah rotating through it too - opposition defenders wouldn't know which way to look.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Ron Burgundy

[old dee 23,787]

I would be extremely surprised if any club thinks they got it right in letting Darling slip to 26 (WCE aside), particularly following his season last year. He should only get better too.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is seemingly trying to justify a position that doesn't quite accord to reality IMO. Darling was one 'out of the box' - and, on any construction, that's a good thing. His character was apparently the issue, yet there were seemingly no character issues that transpired at all during last season - so the underlying fear proved to be entirely misguided. His skills and on field aggression were not ever in issue.

All this, 'let's wait and see in 4 years' starts to wear a bit thin after a while IMO. It's too convenient, and it effectively censors all such comparisons.

I'm absolutely stoked we picked Howe, but don't be thinking we pulled him completely out of the hat. When we passed over Darling at pick 12, there was absolutely no certainty Howe would be around in the 30s. Other clubs were tracking him too, including Collingwood I believe.

And Darling and Howe in the forward line would be awesome over the next 5 years or so - they'd compliment each other very nicely IMO, particularly with Mitch Clark, Jack Watts, Ricky Petterd and Liam Jurrah rotating through it too - opposition defenders wouldn't know which way to look.

You have covered it perfectly for me Ron.

I have said this often but Darling did not fit the "choir boy" design so that left him out.

I wonder would Neeld have pick him if he was around in 2010?

My gut feel is yes.

The next 3 years will be interesting