Training - Monday 14 November, 2011

[rpfc 28,306]

He checked out Nov 2010, clearly.

I don't know whether he knew it then...

But I think it is safe to say that Phil and Graeme have had more say in what happened and when it happened.

[H_T 3,043]

But I think it is safe to say that Phil and Graeme have had more say in what happened and when it happened.

Two peas in a big(GWS)pond.

[The Great One 99 125]

Garry Lyon - laconic, confident, happy, wearing thongs (on feet).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Does anyone know when we are training at Casey? i know there is usually a Christmas one, but any before then?

[Guest Thomo]

I don't know whether he knew it then...

But I think it is safe to say that Phil and Graeme have had more say in what happened and when it happened.

Still trying to cover yourself? Give up, admit that you were wrong, and then you can move on.

[Big Kev 361]

No you are not, we already have one.

I agree with Redleg

[rpfc 28,306]

Still trying to cover yourself? Give up, admit that you were wrong, and then you can move on.

I am not sure what you want me to say here. I have already said I was wrong about the character of the kid as he left for specious and poorly veiled reasons.

But did he lie about the negotiations? Was he signed up in October 2010?

His father arranged with Gubby Allan to score himself a job from the negotiations he was having with GWS.

I wouldn't put having these negotiations behind his kids back past this bloke.

Having said that - lies were obviously told at that March presser - whether the person who spread those lies knew that is another, rather pointless, question.

[H_T 3,043]

Still trying to cover yourself? Give up, admit that you were wrong, and then you can move on.

Wrong ? How could rpfc be wrong back then not knowing then what we might know now ?

It's all nice n' neat with you and hindsight.

I think you and others should move on. But I doubt that will ever be the case until some time after our club uses those two compo picks.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I am not sure what you want me to say here. I have already said I was wrong about the character of the kid as he left for specious and poorly veiled reasons. But did he lie about the negotiations? Was he signed up in October 2010? His father arranged with Gubby Allan to score himself a job from the negotiations he was having with GWS. I wouldn't put having these negotiations behind his kids back past this bloke. Having said that - lies were obviously told at that March presser - whether the person who spread those lies knew that is another, rather pointless, question.

RPFC, do you really believe that GW$ would have offered Philthy Phil a 6 year contract back in October 2010 if it didn't already have his scumbag son already done and dusted?

Do you think it is normal practice for a new club to offer that sort of contract to a little known recruiter if there were no other factors involved?

We are talking about a bloke that had some experience with the TAC system and not much else getting $680,000 over 6 years, which coincidently is the same period his son signed up for. All this crap about us pushing GW$ in to offering an extra year is just that; crap.

I know it's hard but just accept the fact that to all intents and purposes this was a done deal well before the March press conference and probably way back in 2009 or at least 2010. Everything points to this and you can save yourself a lot of grief by just accepting it.

[rpfc 28,306]

RPFC, do you really believe that GW$ would have offered Philthy Phil a 6 year contract back in October 2010 if it didn't already have his scumbag son already done and dusted?

Do you think it is normal practice for a new club to offer that sort of contract to a little known recruiter if there were no other factors involved?

We are talking about a bloke that had some experience with the TAC system and not much else getting $680,000 over 6 years, which coincidently is the same period his son signed up for. All this crap about us pushing GW$ in to offering an extra year is just that; crap.

I know it's hard but just accept the fact that to all intents and purposes this was a done deal well before the March press conference and probably way back in 2009 or at least 2010. Everything points to this and you can save yourself a lot of grief by just accepting it.

Grief?

I will say that it is looking like in October/November 2010 GWS made serious overtures to lure, seemingly, the entire family.

But before that?

Surely they would have actually had a go at getting a Dane Swan or a Pendlebury or anyone else of greater note than a 19 year old with excellent potential but not much else?

And, it isn't normal practice, Gubby Allan rarely engages in normal practice, let alone moral or proper practice...

And if HWMNBN was already 'done and dusted' - why bother giving the father a deal? I would tell him to get an allowance from his son...

They were still dealing at that point and Phil got himself an easy job on great money with security for 6 years.

Profiteering from your own son (shaking head).

It's sad.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Grief?

I will say that it is looking like in October/November 2010 GWS made serious overtures to lure, seemingly, the entire family.

But before that?

Surely they would have actually had a go at getting a Dane Swan or a Pendlebury or anyone else of greater note than a 19 year old with excellent potential but not much else?

And, it isn't normal practice, Gubby Allan rarely engages in normal practice, let alone moral or proper practice...

And if HWMNBN was already 'done and dusted' - why bother giving the father a deal? I would tell him to get an allowance from his son...

They were still dealing at that point and Phil got himself an easy job on great money with security for 6 years.

Profiteering from your own son (shaking head).

It's sad.

With you there's always a but.

When this grubby little deal was done I'm sure that Daddy would have been taken in to consideration and the scenario would probably have been. "We'll offer you a contract of $6m over 6 year and to sweeten the pot, and to keep the family happy, we'll give Philthy some pocket money to help him overcome his grief at losing his son interstate. We've got heaps so let's get all the family snouts in the trough and the AFL will foot the bill." "We have to make this all believable so you get out there and show what a wonderful young man you are and how you have so much integrity that you wouldn't even contemplate changing or making a decision until the end of the season"

"And of course this will have nothing to do with Money, keep pushing that point."

[hardtack 10,525]

With you there's always a but.

When this grubby little deal was done I'm sure that Daddy would have been taken in to consideration and the scenario would probably have been. "We'll offer you a contract of $6m over 6 year and to sweeten the pot, and to keep the family happy, we'll give Philthy some pocket money to help him overcome his grief at losing his son interstate. We've got heaps so let's get all the family snouts in the trough and the AFL will foot the bill." "We have to make this all believable so you get out there and show what a wonderful young man you are and how you have so much integrity that you wouldn't even contemplate changing or making a decision until the end of the season"

"And of course this will have nothing to do with Money, keep pushing that point."

Conversely it could have been: "We want to get young Tom to come to our club, so how about we offer you a good earner on a 6 year deal, dependent on your talking young Tom into signing on the dotted line."

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

Garry Lyon - laconic, confident, happy, wearing thongs (on feet).

I lol'd.

Great report.

[Guest Thomo]

Grief?

I will say that it is looking like in October/November 2010 GWS made serious overtures to lure, seemingly, the entire family.

But before that?

Surely they would have actually had a go at getting a Dane Swan or a Pendlebury or anyone else of greater note than a 19 year old with excellent potential but not much else?

GWS were chasing 19 year olds, not players like swan. They are being very smart in their recruitment, the players on the big money will be in their prime when they are playing finals, unlike Gold Coast, who are providing superannuation funds for current stars.

[H_T 3,043]

GWS were chasing 19 year olds, not players like swan.

Who is to say they didn't explore the likes of Swan, etc...?

Many current stars would have been stitched up long ago...GWS will tell us their focus was young potential stars. (Ward and Palmer aren't that 18/19 yo young). Perhaps what we've seen is who was left or who nibbled at the $ bait. And why the AFL granted GWS a two year window considering the difficulty in chasing.....

[Guest Thomo]

Who is to say they didn't explore the likes of Swan, etc...?

Many current stars would have been stitched up long ago...GWS will tell us their focus was young potential stars. (Ward and Palmer aren't that 18/19 yo young). Perhaps what we've seen is who was left or who nibbled at the $ bait. And why the AFL granted GWS a two year window considering the difficulty in chasing.....

GWS have said they wanted to sign young players who will be in their prime when they are playing finals, and they have. I think it is very clear that they targeted the number one draft pick, a player that many have called a once in a generation player (I disagree), over mid to late twenties established stars that will have no impact when they are challenging for a premiership.

These deals were made 12 months ago. I doubt that they would settle for their 20th choice 12 months ago when many of the alleged targets were coming out of contract.

[rpfc 28,306]

GWS were chasing 19 year olds, not players like swan. They are being very smart in their recruitment, the players on the big money will be in their prime when they are playing finals, unlike Gold Coast, who are providing superannuation funds for current stars.

They have given HWMNBN their ELC (Extravagant Luring Contract) to a 19 year old who I believe will be a very good player but hardly the bonafide star that Judd was and Ablett was. These player elevate the club and those around you and while it is great to have a sh!tload of talented youth it is quite another thing to educate them, develop them, and get them to play well (as we have seen at the Demons in 2011).

They were rebuffed it seems by all,and left with the sundries, and are left with giving the biggest cheque in footy to a 20 year old with questionable character and his father tagging along for the ride.

[rpfc 28,306]

With you there's always a but.

When this grubby little deal was done I'm sure that Daddy would have been taken in to consideration and the scenario would probably have been. "We'll offer you a contract of $6m over 6 year and to sweeten the pot, and to keep the family happy, we'll give Philthy some pocket money to help him overcome his grief at losing his son interstate. We've got heaps so let's get all the family snouts in the trough and the AFL will foot the bill." "We have to make this all believable so you get out there and show what a wonderful young man you are and how you have so much integrity that you wouldn't even contemplate changing or making a decision until the end of the season"

"And of course this will have nothing to do with Money, keep pushing that point."

All issues are nuanced - which is why there is a 'but.'

Your quoted remarks are conjecture and they may be right, but it also may be true that they did not have him signed up in October 2010 and that they gave in to Phil's request for his own pot of cash.

As I have said - it is all irrelevant now, and - in hindsight - we seem to have dodged a rather large bullet.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

All issues are nuanced - which is why there is a 'but.'

Your quoted remarks are conjecture and they may be right, but it also may be true that they did not have him signed up in October 2010 and that they gave in to Phil's request for his own pot of cash.

As I have said - it is all irrelevant now, and - in hindsight - we seem to have dodged a rather large bullet.

I'll let you have the last word; you actually believe that?

[daisycutter 29,606]

They have given HWMNBN their ELC (Extravagant Luring Contract) to a 19 year old who I believe will be a very good player but hardly the bonafide star that Judd was and Ablett was. These player elevate the club and those around you and while it is great to have a sh!tload of talented youth it is quite another thing to educate them, develop them, and get them to play well (as we have seen at the Demons in 2011).

They were rebuffed it seems by all,and left with the sundries, and are left with giving the biggest cheque in footy to a 20 year old with questionable character and his father tagging along for the ride.

I think we can safely use the TLA of HWL now. Don't you think it more appropriate?. HWMNBN is not worth so many keystrokes.

[simma02 53]

May I ask what the Scully's has to do with Training on Monday? Take the Scully talk somewhere else. Enough about the Scully's, sick to death about it!

[rpfc 28,306]

I'll let you have the last word; you actually believe that?

I was blase there.

They either offered it or he asked for it - either way it is ethically objectionable.

[Slartibartfast 17,241]

I'll delete any more Scully discussion fella's,

Thanks

[simma02 53]

I'll delete any more Scully discussion fella's,

Thanks

Excellent suggestion. Some people just won't shut up about it. There is enough existing Scully threads already, no need for Scully talk to infiltrate non related topics. Get Over it People!

[pringle 42]

Absolute garbage......I could count on one hand the number of times he was caught with the ball this year and not dispose effectively. A legitimate criticism from 2 years ago, but most certainly not this year. As others have said, his improvement year to year has been obvious and marked, and clearly is a credit to the commitment we see in his training. There is no reason to think he won't keep improving, and he must be the coaching staff's dream player.

FWIW (and I'm going to be ridiculed for this), I actually think Jones could be as good as or at least a very similar type of player to Dane Swan. I don't think he's a Chapman. If anyone ever watches Dane Swan play, he runs his guts out and gets some looses possessions, he has a strong body and gets stuck into tight situations, grabs the hard ball and then gets the ball out in any way possible. He's not a pretty player. A lot of his 30+ possessions a game are actually just rushed kicks out of packs to push the ball forwards. Jones has been guilty in the past of trying to take too many players on than he should. But he is maturing. He has a strong body, knows how to get the ball, has reasonable skills when he actually has a target to hit and has been developing a good tank to cover the ground needed to get the loose ball. His finishing has steadily improved. He will now hopefully have a better system to work within with Neeld as coach. Swan became a top footballer at about the age of 25. Until then he was middle rung. I absolutely believe that Jones has the time and ability to turn himself into a Swan-esque type of footballer. He just needs to mature. Learn when to get a quick ugly kick off out of congestion, or try to finesse. I think in time he could become a star. Now I await my criticism...

[monoccular 17,417]

FWIW (and I'm going to be ridiculed for this), I actually think Jones could be as good as or at least a very similar type of player to Dane Swan. I don't think he's a Chapman. If anyone ever watches Dane Swan play, he runs his guts out and gets some looses possessions, he has a strong body and gets stuck into tight situations, grabs the hard ball and then gets the ball out in any way possible. He's not a pretty player. A lot of his 30+ possessions a game are actually just rushed kicks out of packs to push the ball forwards. Jones has been guilty in the past of trying to take too many players on than he should. But he is maturing. He has a strong body, knows how to get the ball, has reasonable skills when he actually has a target to hit and has been developing a good tank to cover the ground needed to get the loose ball. His finishing has steadily improved. He will now hopefully have a better system to work within with Neeld as coach. Swan became a top footballer at about the age of 25. Until then he was middle rung. I absolutely believe that Jones has the time and ability to turn himself into a Swan-esque type of footballer. He just needs to mature. Learn when to get a quick ugly kick off out of congestion, or try to finesse. I think in time he could become a star. Now I await my criticism...

Well put -- you may well be right. Let us all hope so.