The word on Brad Green

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

BTW Green should be offered a two year contract in my opinion.

Why? his 2011 was not acceptable if we want to play finals.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Why? his 2011 was not acceptable if we want to play finals.

Brad Green is a much better player than his 2010 form, captaincy and other issues played a part in his dreadful season.

If he concentrates on being the best player he can be, he will be very valuable in the next couple of years.

I can understand others would want him gone and I respect that, but he is a very talented player and we don't have a lot of those.

[Lutz 76]

It's a results based industry, he's not getting results and no other team would even bother trying to poach him (which isn't the point anyway).

Signing him up to a multi-year deal would be an incredibly poor decision by the club.

And finally, if he were to leave, based on 2011 (which is what we should judge him on), we wouldn't lose much.

The PR wouldn't be great, but beyond that it would have little impact.

He was a good, sometimes great player.

He is now a sometimes adequate player.

1 year deals only.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

So you are worried about the communication breakdown that occurs?

Yes I am. In my observation, effective list management requires good communication. Professional outfits do this stuff well.

I don't like the fact that virtually all senior players to have been delisted in recent times seem to have an axe to grind with the club. To me that reveals a problem. Perhaps it's a product of investing too much time in certain players, or poorly negotiating their contracts - but the bottom line is that it's not a good look to have so many former senior players saying negative things about the club. It may reflect poorly on them too, but IMO it all feels a bit amateur. Just like that 186 point belting felt a bit amateur.

I have the feeling that Neeld will bring a hard edged, professionalism to the club that has perhaps been missing for a while. And effective communication will be part of this.

[Lutz 76]

Yes I am. In my observation, effective list management requires good communication. Professional outfits do this stuff well.

I don't like the fact that virtually all senior players to have been delisted in recent times seem to have an axe to grind with the club. To me that reveals a problem. Perhaps it's a product of investing too much time in certain players, or poorly negotiating their contracts - but the bottom line is that it's not a good look to have so many former senior players saying negative things about the club. It may reflect poorly on them too, but IMO it all feels a bit amateur. Just like that 186 point belting felt a bit amateur.

I have the feeling that Neeld will bring a hard edged, professionalism to the club that has perhaps been missing for a while. And effective communication will be part of this.

Of course there's been a bloody problem!

You don't cut the list back to the bone and rebuild for the fun of it.

Rebuilding a list is never a painless process.

Of all the noses out of joint, Junior's is the only legitimate one, and those that dealt with it have acknowledge it could have been done better.

The rest are bitter because their careers ended before they were ready to move on, in spite of them underperforming.

MFC is not a charity.

You perform, or someone who will takes your place.

[Demonman666 0]

If i recall when Martin and morton sign new contracts a couple of weeks ago schwab said all players for next year had signed?

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Of course there's been a bloody problem!

You don't cut the list back to the bone and rebuild for the fun of it.

Rebuilding a list is never a painless process.

Of all the noses out of joint, Junior's is the only legitimate one, and those that dealt with it have acknowledge it could have been done better.

The rest are bitter because their careers ended before they were ready to move on, in spite of them underperforming.

MFC is not a charity.

You perform, or someone who will takes your place.

We came 13th this year. And we weren't exactly hitting it out of the ball park in the years prior to that.

I am not advocating that we should still have White, Robbo, Yze, Miller, Woewodin or Schwarta on the list. I simply want to see a professional edge to these matters. The bigger clubs don't seem to have these issues - and, if they do, they seem to manage these issues a whole lot better.

And simply putting tough talking platitudes out there doesn't equal that. Anyone can talk tough - IMO managing a list effectively requires a more professional and sophisticated lens than that.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

Brad Green is a much better player than his 2010 form, captaincy and other issues played a part in his dreadful season.

If he concentrates on being the best player he can be, he will be very valuable in the next couple of years.

I can understand others would want him gone and I respect that, but he is a very talented player and we don't have a lot of those.

I do not want Brad Green to go....But he does not deserve to be on anything more than 1 year contracts until he retires..his form and Body Language on the park in 2011 were dreadful....sorry to be harsh, but it has to happen.

[jnrmac 20,154]

Woey and Powell were also salary cap related.

Untrue. Woey certainly was but Powell wanted a 3 yrd deal and Daniher only wanted to give him him two. Nothing to do with salary cap. From memory only played two years with the Saints but I stand to be corrected on that.

[jnrmac 20,154]

Brad deserves a two year deal but not the Captaincy.

Was easily our best last year. This year was still top 10 in the Bluey so the club thinks he did OK.

[beelzebub 23,382]

Brad deserves a two year deal but not the Captaincy.

I favour a 1x1 which has relevant kpi to trigger the 2nd

Was easily our best last year. This year was still top 10 in the Bluey so the club thinks he did OK.

A scathing commmentary on so much thats been wrong to date

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

This year was still top 10 in the Bluey so the club thinks he did OK.

This just shows how much work is ahead of Mark Neeld if we are Ever to play in finals.

[Lutz 76]

We came 13th this year. And we weren't exactly hitting it out of the ball park in the years prior to that.

I am not advocating that we should still have White, Robbo, Yze, Miller, Woewodin or Schwarta on the list. I simply want to see a professional edge to these matters. The bigger clubs don't seem to have these issues - and, if they do, they seem to manage these issues a whole lot better.

And simply putting tough talking platitudes out there doesn't equal that. Anyone can talk tough - IMO managing a list effectively requires a more professional and sophisticated lens than that.

That's mainly because players being "retired" by bigger clubs are often also being shown the door because they have been superceded by younger players, not just for list management reasons.

Our players have genuinely felt that they still had something to offer the team that couldn't necessarily be provided by the young developing players, and often with good reason.

But in the interests of pure list management, it has been the right decision to let them go.

A tough pill to swallow for all involved.

[Lutz 76]

Brad deserves a two year deal but not the Captaincy.

Was easily our best last year. This year was still top 10 in the Bluey so the club thinks he did OK.

Based on what exactly?

His form in 2011 was abominable.

What if he plays like that or worse in 2012?

Good decision then?

[beelzebub 23,382]

Based on what exactly?

His form in 2011 was abominable.

What if he plays like that or worse in 2012?

Good decision then?

And his 2010 form was terrific. What if he plays like that in 12 ?? A good decision then ? Yes.

011 was without doubt annus horribilus for Green. Unlikely his pride or ego would allow a repeat. But the Capataincy ought to be passed on to another who will do a better job, of captaining.

[Lutz 76]

No, if he performs in 2012, we sign him for another year.

If he doesn't, we don't.

Fairly straightforward.

[beelzebub 23,382]

I would have thought Brad would have 2-3 years left in him. However only 1-2 might be at a level warranting an AFL gig.

Lifes about give and take, you , if you want to entice someone/soenthing must have bait. Suggest to Brad that good gmaes wil lbe rewarded with another year ought to be done in a fashion where a trigger comes into play preferably before the end of season. Hes due some consideration for his journey and efforts over the years.. The flip side is unlike the Jnr fiasco he would also know in reasonable time that he wouldnt be offered another contract.

Some folk have no real idea of real life negotiations nor incentives.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

Brad deserves a two year deal but not the Captaincy.

Was easily our best last year. This year was still top 10 in the Bluey so the club thinks he did OK.

I'm being pedantic I know, but Brad finished 11th not quite top ten.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

No, if he performs in 2012, we sign him for another year.

If he doesn't, we don't.

Fairly straightforward.

This^^^ Exactly.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

No, if he performs in 2012, we sign him for another year.

If he doesn't, we don't.

Fairly straightforward.

Damn straight

[Great_little_footy_team 8]

Agree

As I recall, Junior was playing very average football when he got a "sore hamstring" in Round 11. He was out for 7 weeks - during which people like Gysberts really showed something. There was a big question mark over his ability to get another year out of his ageing legs. I reckon that was when they decided to cut him. They should have kept an open mind until Round 22 ... but even then he was a risk. As it happens, he is probably better remembered now than he would have been if he'd limped his way through another season . A tough decision for both club and player. The way it was handled - apparently led by Connolly - was the disaster.

It is obviously a tough time for Greeny ... especially given his relationship with Bailey. It will hurt him to lose the captaincy after such an awful year ... and it will take guts for him to front up again - a real measure of "toughness".But I hope a one year contract can be worked out - because he still has something to offer - and a good year in 2012 would see him out as a great servant of the club.

I seemed to remember that he was actually playing very good football before his injury. In fact I looked it up and he averaged 22.5 disposals which was his 3rd best year across his career as well as averaging 7 tackles. That's with a few very average games coming back after his injury.

The McDonald decision was a shocker regardless of how poorly it was handled.

Agree however that Green deserves to play on with us. Not a great captain but has been a wonderful player and servant over the years. Give him another year but strip him of the captaincy. The problem is there's no one who has shown they have what it takes to take over as skipper. I'd give a Grimes or a Trengove a shot, it's a big risk but I don't think our experienced players are up to it.

Source: http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=512&SeasonID=2010

[hardtack 10,605]

So, what we want is someone who is articulate and can present well with the media, command the respect of his team mates and remain focused on the job at hand on the field without it having an adverse affect on his game? Maybe this is a job for a sports psychologist with experience in profiling? I would be reluctant to give the job to anyone based on our observations and opinions as I recall last year many of us, myself included, were in full support of Green being appointed. I know this will get a laugh out of many, but I am thinking that Garland may be a left of centre possibility as he is one of the only players I can think of who comes even close to meeting all of those criteria (Watts still needs a couple of years).

And on Green... I am really disappointed, but not surprised (which in itself is disappointing), at the fact that people here are writing Brad off after one bad season as captain and discussing whether he now deserves a contract extension or that he should be happy to accept a one year extension. The guy has given his all for the club, has been one of our most hard at it, as recently as 2010 he had possibly his best season, and yet people still question his worth??? Unbelievable! Yes, he should probably be relieved ("stripped" sounds a tad harsh) of the captaincy, but in my opinion, he is probably still worth a 2 year extension with a slight salary increase if that's what it takes to get him to sign back on.

Essendon supporters are often referred to as "the ferals" for their willingness to turn on their own... well, it seems there are a few Dees "supporters" who could possibly be referred to as "the fickles".

[Lutz 76]

Re: ht

Garland not a terrible idea.

The captaincy does bring with it an intensified focus on your performance each and every week.

I think Garland could cope, but he'd just be temporarily warming the seat.

I'm in favour of a temporary shared captaincy, between 3 if possible.

Re: Green.

It's a results based industry and he is not getting results.

He has not had a bad season, it has been a shocking season.

And he has lost the ability to have an impact up the ground.

Last year he was good because as a HFF he could go upfield and get the footy too.

This year he has looked slow and inneffectual in trying to do that.

& even when given golden opportunities has struggled to convert.

A "1 year for over-30s" policy, is not a policy if you don't stick to it.

I agree with it. What if Green has a comparable year in 2012? And then we're stuck with him for 2013?

He has "given his all for the club"?

Good, so he should be expected to. But he hasn't performed to an adequate level for a year.

Does the club owe him a year on the list as persona non grata?

Or is (was) he merely repaying the faith the club showed him from an early age?

The concept of either party owing another anything is oft misconstrued.

None of this is equitable to "worth".

If he performs the same in 2012, his worth as a player is little.

If it takes a 2 year deal, and a salary increase (!) I'd happily let him walk.

I'll show him the door and carry his bags for him myself.

Call me fickle, but I demand players perform and won't reward those that don't.

Especially those in the twilight of their career.

Those that are at the very root of this club's lack of success in recent years.

I'd call you a bleeding heart and a sentimentalist.

No room for passengers, sorry.

[hardtack 10,605]

Re: Green.

It's a results based industry and he is not getting results.

He has not had a bad season, it has been a shocking season.

And he has lost the ability to have an impact up the ground.

Last year he was good because as a HFF he could go upfield and get the footy too.

This year he has looked slow and inneffectual in trying to do that.

& even when given golden opportunities has struggled to convert.

A "1 year for over-30s" policy, is not a policy if you don't stick to it.

I agree with it. What if Green has a comparable year in 2012? And then we're stuck with him for 2013?

He has "given his all for the club"?

Good, so he should be expected to. But he hasn't performed to an adequate level for a year.

Does the club owe him a year on the list as persona non grata?

Or is (was) he merely repaying the faith the club showed him from an early age?

The concept of either party owing another anything is oft misconstrued.

None of this is equitable to "worth".

If he performs the same in 2012, his worth as a player is little.

If it takes a 2 year deal, and a salary increase (!) I'd happily let him walk.

I'll show him the door and carry his bags for him myself.

Call me fickle, but I demand players perform and won't reward those that don't.

Especially those in the twilight of their career.

Those that are at the very root of this club's lack of success in recent years.

I'd call you a bleeding heart and a sentimentalist.

No room for passengers, sorry.

You can call me a "bleeding heart and sentimentalist" if it makes you feel better, but I would say I'm a realist - the guy has had 12 very good seasons (I think it is - can't recall at what age he started) and one very poor season (regardless of age), so I am not prepared to write him off on the back of that. He thoroughly deserves to have his faith in the club repaid - he is starting to look like the Mike Hussey of the MFC.

If you want to single Green out as having a terrible year, then you may as well add him to a list that includes all bar a small handful of our players - he still managed 11th in the Blueys, so by your reckoning, the vast majority of players on our list are in an even more tenuous position.

I seem to recall Green commenting on his lack of ability to be effectual due to the fact he was not being allowed to play up the ground; if that was the case and my memory is not failing me, I would argue that those who comment on his lack of midfield input are way off the mark; even a captain must follow orders from above. I would think that Neeld will see that this was an issue and will probably play him further up the field, only moving him forward when an impact needs to be made.

[Daryl Keith 39]

1 year and captaincy to Moloney.