The Fevola vote

[PaulRB 6,411]

I worry about the possible fracturing effect it could have on a united playing group.

If Fev were to endear himself to a section of the playing group, and then commit a minor indiscretion... what would the club do?

I assume they'd send him packing, and stick to their no tolerance policy, but it would be at the risk of dividing a playing group, many of whom could think he was being dealt with too harshly for such a minor infraction.

What would fairly constitute crossing the line? If Fev were to get a parking ticket, and then the players lose their new friend and teammate, what then? Would you expect them to all be happy with this result?

The effect of adding him to the playing group, and then swiftly removing him - would this not provide a distraction and upset the balance of the list?

It would appear to me that a similar thing happened with the playing group at the bulldogs last season when dealing with Akermanis.

I think you are over estimating the impact Fev would have should the scenario you outlined occur. The players are young men who have played much of their careers to date with the normal range of personalities that a footy club has, including potential boofheads like Fev.

I don't hold to the mollycoddling approach, and think that every time the club makes a decision based on the presumed immaturity of the team, they further compound that immaturity.

Edited August 31, 2011 by PaulRB

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

I think you are over estimating the impact Fev would have should the scenario you outlined occur. The players are young men who have played much of their careers to date with the normal range of personalities that a footy club has, including potential boofheads like Fev.

I don't hold to the mollycoddling approach, and think that every time the club makes a decision based on the presumed immaturity of the team, they further compound that immaturity.

I might be, but I don't care to take the chance.

We don't need him, he is a cancer, it would be a desperate attempt for a quick fix, and we'll be much better off in the long run without him.

[rpfc 28,726]

How about a compromise:

We get Thompson, Goddard and Cornes to add to the senior players in Trades in October, Thompson is given the captaincy and then we can draft Fevola.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Don't be surprised to see the Fev back at Carlton.

Mrs Pratt likes the boy.

You heard it here first.....

Hmmn, I've been wondering about that.

They play dumb well.

I've heard them say things here and there that made my radar wake. something didn't seem right in what they said, here and there. I wouldn't be all surprised.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think some are actually deluding themselves into thinking we are a Fev away from the top 4...

It's got nothing to do with the Top 4???

It's got everything (getting an older tall forward) who can take the No1 defender and help and teach the young forwards for 2 Years.

IT Doesn't have to be FEV ola... But we need a strongly built deep forward, to help straighten us up as we develop the forwards and the Mids at the same time.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I worry about the possible fracturing effect it could have on a united playing group.

If Fev were to endear himself to a section of the playing group, and then commit a minor indiscretion... what would the club do?

I assume they'd send him packing, and stick to their no tolerance policy, but it would be at the risk of dividing a playing group, many of whom could think he was being dealt with too harshly for such a minor infraction.

What would fairly constitute crossing the line? If Fev were to get a parking ticket, and then the players lose their new friend and teammate, what then? Would you expect them to all be happy with this result?

The effect of adding him to the playing group, and then swiftly removing him - would this not provide a distraction and upset the balance of the list?

It would appear to me that a similar thing happened with the playing group at the bulldogs last season when dealing with Akermanis.

I would say the same as we've just done with Bennell,,, & Morton,,, and Sylvia,,, And Green,,, & Moloney earlier in the season... Discipline !!!

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

The new coach'll know what's best.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The new coach'll know what's best.

Lets just Hope he's Not a 3 Eyed Sloth !

Then with those colors already covered, whats left for the 3rd Eye???

Edited August 31, 2011 by dee-luded

[Trisul 664]

I worry about the possible fracturing effect it could have on a united playing group.

If Fev were to endear himself to a section of the playing group, and then commit a minor indiscretion... what would the club do?

I assume they'd send him packing, and stick to their no tolerance policy, but it would be at the risk of dividing a playing group, many of whom could think he was being dealt with too harshly for such a minor infraction.

What would fairly constitute crossing the line? If Fev were to get a parking ticket, and then the players lose their new friend and teammate, what then? Would you expect them to all be happy with this result?

The effect of adding him to the playing group, and then swiftly removing him - would this not provide a distraction and upset the balance of the list?

It would appear to me that a similar thing happened with the playing group at the bulldogs last season when dealing with Akermanis.

Really?

Pray tell, why is Sylvia stil with the MFC if the prospect of an MFC player getting a parking ticket (cough) or somesuch and being removed from the list is so mortifying?

The hyperbole in this thread truly is amazing.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Trident

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Really?

Pray tell, why is Sylvia stil with the MFC if the prospect of an MFC player getting a parking ticket (cough) or somesuch and being removed from the list is so mortifying?

The hyperbole in this thread truly is amazing.

Before you brand this hyperbole, it's based on the premise that we should hire Fev on condition of zero tolerance.

You understand what zero tolerance means? Or do you think he should have a clean slate with us?

Indiscretions dealt with like anyone else?

So, if gambling or drinking issues arise, he gets disciplined, but how far?

What if it something as "innocent" as a parking ticket, or a verbal altercation with a stranger - do we need that?

Does the positive outweigh the potential negative?

Not for me.

[DemonWA 3,936]

ask the Kids who played with him at Casey. if they vouch for him we should sign him up

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

ask the Kids who played with him at Casey. if they vouch for him we should sign him up

Really? Cos kids are the best judge of character?

You know, the players were upset that Bailey got fired because they all loved him too...

Some decisions should not be left up to the players.

[Trisul 664]

Fair enough Gareth. I appreciate your position. However;

Did Neitz going the cab driver kill the MFC?

Did .. scurrilous rumours .. regarding an MFC post season function with the fab 6 (whatever) kill the MFC?

His contract is his contract. Or do we advocate / invoke the contracts are for shmucks clause?

If his contract specifies a parking ticket as a terminable event, he's terminated. And?

"Does the positive outweigh the potential negative?

Not for me. "

What is that?

[PaulRB 6,411]

I'll be watching Casey on Sat, in part to check out our boys, but also to run the ruler over Fev. Assuming we all agree Fev is a talented forward capable of playing AFL again. And most are aware of and concerned about Fevs off field and cultural issues (i.e. potentially negative). Yet there is another area of the game that Fev would bring to Melb that has not been discussed much, namely, his ability to pull a crowd.

So just to round out our discussion of the Pros and Cons of Fev at the MFC I'll ask the question, what media, membership, sponsorship, revenue value (positive or negative) would Fev's recruitment deliver to the MFC?

Lets start with the scenario that Fev acts like a normal AFL player, i.e. good pre-season allowing him to be in the MFC team for round 1, 2012?

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Fair enough Gareth. I appreciate your position. However;

Did Neitz going the cab driver kill the MFC?

Did .. scurrilous rumours .. regarding an MFC post season function with the fab 6 (whatever) kill the MFC?

His contract is his contract. Or do we advocate / invoke the contracts are for shmucks clause?

If his contract specifies a parking ticket as a terminable event, he's terminated. And?

"Does the positive outweigh the potential negative?

Not for me. "

What is that?

It didn't kill the club, but have you seen how we have performed over the last 4 seasons?

Have you seen how pathetic our leadership has been?

It certainly didn't help.

And Fev has been a lot worse than the incidents you quoted.

Re: potentials...

Potential (realistic) positives:

- Fev kicks a bunch of goals over 2 seasons, then retires, maybe pushing us from 8th to 6th. Still also-rans.

- Goes on to join other players who used MFC to top up their super and as a retirement home, like Moorcroft, Pickett, Heffernan et al...

- has a shockingly indiscretion free tenure at MFC

Potential (realistic) negatives:

- creates a distraction, fractures the playing group

- provides a negative influence during the development of our kids (our future)

- hampers the playing development of our young forwards by occupying a spot in the forward line they would otherwise have.

- sulks, provides a poor onfield example, draws negative attention towards himself and the club

- doesn't perform as expected (by some), being another year older and having only performed against substandard opposition for half a season in the VFL

- actually shortens our window: like Carlton, we may need a year or 2 to adjust to life without Fev dominating our forward line.

- commits some sort of indiscretion, just like he has done, time and again, and AGAIN, at Carlton, and then appeared to have learnt briefly at Brisbane... before proving this leopard could not change his spots.

Obviously, it's not realistic to suggest Fev would win us a flag, or that he'd murder the coach.

[PaulRB 6,411]

It didn't kill the club, but have you seen how we have performed over the last 4 seasons?

Have you seen how pathetic our leadership has been?

It certainly didn't help.

And Fev has been a lot worse than the incidents you quoted.

Re: potentials...

Potential (realistic) positives:

- Fev kicks a bunch of goals over 2 seasons, then retires, maybe pushing us from 8th to 6th. Still also-rans.

- Goes on to join other players who used MFC to top up their super and as a retirement home, like Moorcroft, Pickett, Heffernan et al...

- has a shockingly indiscretion free tenure at MFC

Potential (realistic) negatives:

- creates a distraction, fractures the playing group

- provides a negative influence during the development of our kids (our future)

- hampers the playing development of our young forwards by occupying a spot in the forward line they would otherwise have.

- sulks, provides a poor onfield example, draws negative attention towards himself and the club

- doesn't perform as expected (by some), being another year older and having only performed against substandard opposition for half a season in the VFL

- actually shortens our window: like Carlton, we may need a year or 2 to adjust to life without Fev dominating our forward line.

- commits some sort of indiscretion, just like he has done, time and again, and AGAIN, at Carlton, and then appeared to have learnt briefly at Brisbane... before proving this leopard could not change his spots.

Obviously, it's not realistic to suggest Fev would win us a flag, or that he'd murder the coach.

Taking Fevs last year (2011 playing for the CAsey Scorps) as the best guide to his future form, has Fev:

- Kicked a bunch of goals pushing Casey into finals contention? Yes

- Had an indiscretion free tenure at Casey? Yes

- Created a distraction, fractured the playing group? No

- Provided a negative influence during the development of our kids (our future)? Not that I'm aware of.

- hampered the playing development of our young forwards by occupying a spot in the forward line they would otherwise have? No

- sulked, provided a poor on field example, draws negative attention towards himself and the club? Yes, I heard he did this at Casey's game against Geelong

- hasn't perform as expected (by some), being another year older and having only performed against substandard opposition for half a season in the VFL? No, he's performed above expectations in the second half of the season

- committed some sort of indiscretion, just like he has done, time and again, and AGAIN, at Carlton, and then appeared to have learnt briefly at Brisbane... before proving this leopard could not change his spots? No, he's been indiscretion free for the year...

Seems Fev has done ok in 2011 even on your own scorecard...

Edited September 2, 2011 by PaulRB

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

My god...

One single season... Not even a whole season...

And you think that really proves anything?

Anything at all?

And he STILL sulked in a match, even though he knows fully well the ramifications of that behaviour, when he is supposedly desperate for a last shot?!

Minor I know, but this guy you cannot give an inch.

He has proven it. Again. And again. And again. And again.

Not me. Him.

That sort of pattern cannot be ignored.

It is inherent to his DNA to be a talented colossal f**k up.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Compassion Exercise

Honesty with yourself leads to compassion for others

OBJECTIVE: To increase the amount of compassion in the world.

EXPECTED RESULTS: A personal sense of peace.

INSTRUCTIONS: This exercise can be done anywhere that people congregate. It should be done on strangers, unobtrusively, from some distance. Try to do all five steps on the same person.

Step 1: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is seeking some happiness for his/her life."

Step 2: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is trying to avoid suffering in his/her life."

Step 3: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person has known sadness, loneliness and despair."

Step 4: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is seeking to fulfill his/her needs."

Step 5: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is learning about life."

©Copyright 1994 by Harry Palmer, author of the Avatar® materials.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Taking Fevs last year (2011 playing for the CAsey Scorps) as the best guide to his future form, has Fev:

- Kicked a bunch of goals pushing Casey into finals contention? Yes But is that a function of dominating midfields against at times some truly crud oppositions

- Had an indiscretion free tenure at Casey? YesNo. His pre season antics and refusal to train in preference to having a jolly in LA was unbelievable for someone trying to get his football life together. He started the season behind the 8 ball and was terribly unfit for most of it. He still cant chase at VFL level and has no second effort.

- Created a distraction, fractured the playing group? No Not that your aware of. I think the question should be has Fevola been a positive influence on the playing group? You could as equally answer No.

- Provided a negative influence during the development of our kids (our future)? Not that I'm aware of. The same could be said in regard provision of the positive influence. He is still an on field sulk and a hothead at times. Its not good enough.

- hampered the playing development of our young forwards by occupying a spot in the forward line they would otherwise have? NoThis is clearly a case where you would not have any knowledge to make a clear judgement. However by playing him in the forward line then another MFC player misses out.

- sulked, provided a poor on field example, draws negative attention towards himself and the club? Yes, I heard he did this at Casey's game against Geelong He has done it quite a few times this year. He will never shake the petulant selfish antics. This is exactly what cant be tolerated at AFL level. Its not a good look for younger players.- hasn't perform as expected (by some), being another year older and having only performed against substandard opposition for half a season in the VFL? No, he's performed above expectations in the second half of the season No he has performed as expected. If he is the "class" people are saying he should be eating this competition each and every week. Cashes in on the weaker opposition but negligible against the better opposition

- committed some sort of indiscretion, just like he has done, time and again, and AGAIN, at Carlton, and then appeared to have learnt briefly at Brisbane... before proving this leopard could not change his spots? No, he's been indiscretion free for the year... This is clearly not the case. His pre season behaviour reeked of the same immaturity that has plagued his career. The fact that he has not sunk to the depths in the past five months is hardly a recommendation. Its very hard to perpetuate being a social clown and misfit even for Fevola. It would be naive to think this leopard does not carry the baggage of who he is. Its really good that he is finally trying to turn things around. FMD, he has had that many opportunities over his career. And what he has to turn around are big changes in his life. If he is to continue to rehabilitate then it going to take alot longer for him to be a functional character on and off the field. The problem he has that at 31 his ability to translate that into an AFL career is limited. And for what MFC is and needs and what Fevola is and what he brings as the total package does not suit MFC's LT targets. I am more excited about the prospect of Fitzy making the grade than punting on an ageing misfit whose AFL window has closed due to his own rank stupidity over time.

Seems Fev has done ok in 2011 even on your own scorecard... Fev has been as expected he would be at VFL level. In my mind it does not result in a capable player at AFL level

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Compassion Exercise

Honesty with yourself leads to compassion for others

OBJECTIVE: To increase the amount of compassion in the world.

EXPECTED RESULTS: A personal sense of peace.

INSTRUCTIONS: This exercise can be done anywhere that people congregate. It should be done on strangers, unobtrusively, from some distance. Try to do all five steps on the same person.

Step 1: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is seeking some happiness for his/her life."

Step 2: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is trying to avoid suffering in his/her life."

Step 3: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person has known sadness, loneliness and despair."

Step 4: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is seeking to fulfill his/her needs."

Step 5: With attention on the person, repeat to yourself: "Just like me, this person is learning about life."

©Copyright 1994 by Harry Palmer, author of the Avatar® materials.

Alleluia Brother. I am happy for Fev to do this at another Club. And God bless him.

[rpfc 28,726]

Compassion Exercise

Honesty with yourself leads to compassion for others

This is an exercise Fev should be doing himself with those around him.

I'm all for compassion.

That doesn't mean my footy club has to be.

Football has not been a friend to Fev.

I have made this argument before; AFL footy has brought this bloke too much/many:

- free time for the punt

- spare cash for the punt

- noteriety for his little head to get in trouble easily

- excellent opportunities to embarrass himself publicly for the benefit of others (Brownlow nonsense for the Footy Show).

So he can play AFL if he wants to but don't use the "he needs AFL" reason for him being given a chance. It's BS.

BTW, I am all for getting Fev to the Dees if we can get Goddard, Thompson ©, and Cornes...

[DemonOX 8,800]

Yes on a very small financial contract with clauses we can sack him with any breach of behaviour clauses.

Perfect answer. We get a big full forward (min cost) and protect ourselves with the behaviour clauses in his contract. Its a win win. 3rd time lucky for Fev!!!

Edited September 2, 2011 by DemonOX

[PaulRB 6,411]

Taking Fevs last year (2011 playing for the CAsey Scorps) as the best guide to his future form, has Fev:

- Kicked a bunch of goals pushing Casey into finals contention? Yes But is that a function of dominating midfields against at times some truly crud oppositions

- Had an indiscretion free tenure at Casey? YesNo. His pre season antics and refusal to train in preference to having a jolly in LA was unbelievable for someone trying to get his football life together. He started the season behind the 8 ball and was terribly unfit for most of it. He still cant chase at VFL level and has no second effort.

- Created a distraction, fractured the playing group? No Not that your aware of. I think the question should be has Fevola been a positive influence on the playing group? You could as equally answer No.

- Provided a negative influence during the development of our kids (our future)? Not that I'm aware of. The same could be said in regard provision of the positive influence. He is still an on field sulk and a hothead at times. Its not good enough.

- hampered the playing development of our young forwards by occupying a spot in the forward line they would otherwise have? NoThis is clearly a case where you would not have any knowledge to make a clear judgement. However by playing him in the forward line then another MFC player misses out.

- sulked, provided a poor on field example, draws negative attention towards himself and the club? Yes, I heard he did this at Casey's game against Geelong He has done it quite a few times this year. He will never shake the petulant selfish antics. This is exactly what cant be tolerated at AFL level. Its not a good look for younger players.- hasn't perform as expected (by some), being another year older and having only performed against substandard opposition for half a season in the VFL? No, he's performed above expectations in the second half of the season No he has performed as expected. If he is the "class" people are saying he should be eating this competition each and every week. Cashes in on the weaker opposition but negligible against the better opposition

- committed some sort of indiscretion, just like he has done, time and again, and AGAIN, at Carlton, and then appeared to have learnt briefly at Brisbane... before proving this leopard could not change his spots? No, he's been indiscretion free for the year... This is clearly not the case. His pre season behaviour reeked of the same immaturity that has plagued his career. The fact that he has not sunk to the depths in the past five months is hardly a recommendation. Its very hard to perpetuate being a social clown and misfit even for Fevola. It would be naive to think this leopard does not carry the baggage of who he is. Its really good that he is finally trying to turn things around. FMD, he has had that many opportunities over his career. And what he has to turn around are big changes in his life. If he is to continue to rehabilitate then it going to take alot longer for him to be a functional character on and off the field. The problem he has that at 31 his ability to translate that into an AFL career is limited. And for what MFC is and needs and what Fevola is and what he brings as the total package does not suit MFC's LT targets. I am more excited about the prospect of Fitzy making the grade than punting on an ageing misfit whose AFL window has closed due to his own rank stupidity over time.

Seems Fev has done ok in 2011 even on your own scorecard... Fev has been as expected he would be at VFL level. In my mind it does not result in a capable player at AFL level

Fair enough and good points I guess. I like the idea of Fev (redeemed goal kicker) but are too removed from Casey to analyse his performance and suitability for modern AFL deeply enough, i.e. ability to apply defensive pressure, adhere to team structures and roles etc... and find that much of the debate re-Fev doesn't go into this cool analysis of his football value. Some are saying he'd be a good fit at Freo, why? So what I'm trying to get to is a baggage free analysis of Fevs footy value

I'd love to hear an in depth evaluation of where his footy is at and what he'd need to improve to become an AFL asset again. And given that analysis of his Footy value explore how it matches up to the needs of our footy team. I personally see there is a good fit, but as I mentioned I've not followed his football performances closely enough this year to provide an in depth analysis (i.e. like we discuss on any potential draftee)...

[mauriesy 7,352]

Kicked a bunch of goals pushing Casey into finals contention? Yes But is that a function of dominating midfields against at times some truly crud oppositions

WAToday talking about Fremantle possibly taking Fevola:

Former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas says Fevola's problems shouldn't prevent him returning to the league but rails against the line of thinking that his goal-kicking prowess could be the "saviour" of any side. "If we'll accept a drug addict (Ben Cousins) back into the league we ought to accept Fevola with his drinking and gambling issues," Thomas said. "But I've never been an advocate of teams relying on power forwards who just kick goals. It makes you too predictable and it's much easier for other teams to stop you in finals ... I'd hate to think Fremantle would put itself in the position of giving up draft picks to try and get one."

You could easily substitute 'Melbourne' for 'Fremantle' in that last sentence.

[McQueen 17,867]

Fair enough and good points I guess. I like the idea of Fev (redeemed goal kicker) but are too removed from Casey to analyse his performance and suitability for modern AFL deeply enough, i.e. ability to apply defensive pressure, adhere to team structures and roles etc... and find that much of the debate re-Fev doesn't go into this cool analysis of his football value. Some are saying he'd be a good fit at Freo, why? So what I'm trying to get to is a baggage free analysis of Fevs footy value

I'd love to hear an in depth evaluation of where his footy is at and what he'd need to improve to become an AFL asset again. And given that analysis of his Footy value explore how it matches up to the needs of our footy team. I personally see there is a good fit, but as I mentioned I've not followed his football performances closely enough this year to provide an in depth analysis (i.e. like we discuss on any potential draftee)...

He'd be a good fit at freo because it's a two horse town over here. He'd have his head in the papers everyday - eventually with a shot of him peeing in some shop window, wrestling bouncers, or flashing an old lady.

The guys a Pelican who's had numerous chances at redemption only to crap on the people who have provided those chances.

MFC will be no different. Dragging in Fev would be desperate, knee-jerk and totally unnecessary.

It will not happen.