The No T$ No B$ Thread

[daisycutter 29,616]

don't forget they are yet to tackle mr danks

[Redleg 40,946]

don't forget they are yet to tackle mr danks

Are you sure they haven't already. If he has kept no records or has shredded them and denies illegal supplements, what then?

[daisycutter 29,616]

you tell me, you're the lawyer

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Are you sure they haven't already. If he has kept no records or has shredded them and denies illegal supplements, what then?

Who owns the governance responsibilities ( players/club ) then Red?

[daisycutter 29,616]

Are you sure they haven't already. If he has kept no records or has shredded them and denies illegal supplements, what then?

then you treat them like the SS - collective guilt and they all go down

[Biffen 12,943]

then you treat them like the SS - collective guilt and they all go down

We have ways of making them talk.

A cup of tea and a biscuit is probably a good start.

If they don't talk immediately, threaten to eat the Monte Carlos

if that doesn't work then we attach electrodes to their balls and zap the [censored].

[daisycutter 29,616]

We have ways of making them talk.

A cup of tea and a biscuit is probably a good start.

If they don't talk immediately, threaten to eat the Monte Carlos

if that doesn't work then we attach electrodes to their balls and zap the [censored].

i know an ex argentinian colonel electronics expert who might come in handy

failing that we can always find someone at the vatican security services

[Biffen 12,943]

i know an ex argentinian colonel electronics expert who might come in handy

failing that we can always find someone at the vatican security services

Perfect-these guys are not worth the helicopter trip.

I've got some bolt cutters as well- in case their toenails need a clip.

[Whispering_Jack 30,206]

If my mate is right and there is no evidence of who took what and when, how do you propose infraction notices can be issued?

I don't believe WADA or ASADA can sanction without evidence.

They can't but you would have to be naive to believe that no evidence has been taken to date. The Bombers' players and staff have been interviewed as have the chemist and the staff of the off ground clinic where the players were injected. That venue was under surveillance by the ACC during the time players were injected (according to a newspaper report). My guess is that the surveillance included wire taps and other recorded material which in combination with the waiver documents and player evidence (including one very public confession about taking what was believed to be AOD9604) might be very damaging evidence. Dank has been interviewed by the ACC as well as by Fairfax reporters Baker and McKenzie (one part of their interview has been published). What Dank revealed might be incriminating of players. There's a question about whether and how all of the evidence can be shared (more legislation might be required). Then there will come a day when ASADA calls on Dank to be interviewed and produce his documents. This thing has plenty of mileage in it.

It's not right to think in terms of our own sovereign laws either. The AFL has formally accepted that WADA's laws are paramount which means that the burden of proof that applies is not the same as that which applies under our legal system. If ASADA is satisfied that players had banned substances administered then it can issue infraction notices. The AFL then makes the decision and there is no right of appeal to a court - only the Court of Arbitration in Sport.

You can rest assured that WADA will not allow this to go away.

Finally, unless the information comes from within the ASADA investigation then anyone claiming to know what the final outcome will be is blowing hot air.

[old dee 23,792]

If my mate is right and there is no evidence of who took what and when, how do you propose infraction notices can be issued?

I don't believe WADA or ASADA can sanction without evidence.

I agree with you Redleg.

I have been saying similar for months.

[Redleg 40,946]

I don't want to get into an argy bargy on this, as I was just passing on someone's opinion.

Guess we will find out fairly soon.

I am suspicious of the overwhelming confidence of Essendon being publicly displayed. If they knew nothing about the investigation, I don't think we would hear public comments.

[old dee 23,792]

I don't want to get into an argy bargy on this, as I was just passing on someone's opinion.

Guess we will find out fairly soon.

I am suspicious of the overwhelming confidence of Essendon being publicly displayed. If they knew nothing about the investigation, I don't think we would hear public comments.

Again me too!

[Biffen 12,943]

I agree with you Redleg.

I have been saying similar for months.

verbal testimony ,first hand witnesses ,diaries etc.

The fact that a paper trail was destroyed is also a pointer to their guilt.

[beelzebub 23,380]

The game at stake , or rather the issue at stake is sovereignty over the governance of all that impacts a sport from a standpoint of 'anything ' contrary to the letter of a rule or the spirit of it's writing. The AFL is without doubt conflicted and clumsily ham-fisted in all of this. Dont anyone be fooled into thinking that just because the D9 cant be sen just yet that there's nothing around the corner that will smack Messendon down and level its lofty aspirations.

There is far, far , too much at stake here for WADA/ASADA to ever allow this to go unpunished. It would unravel the fabric of its world policing.

The teams of the AFL have been used to time scales and such as imposed by the AFL itself. The AFL has no interest in dragging things on too long or even getting to the truth sometimes .It just wants something approaching the look of demonstrating it takes things seriously. Thats not how WADA works.

You can bet just when that Tulla mob think they are away clean they will run smack bang into armegeddon.

Theres an expression...."Keep your powder dry"..... to some this simply means maintaining a readiness for action and the capability of it. Another application of its merits is to wait until the most appropriate time to shoot. Just because WADA arent laying them in the street just yet doesnt mean for one moment that infractions arent on the way. Its about dotting i's and crossing t's.. Most likely they are also just letting out the rope a bit more.

tic toc

[old dee 23,792]

verbal testimony ,first hand witnesses ,diaries etc.

The fact that a paper trail was destroyed is also a pointer to their guilt.

It is my understanding Biffen that no records existed in the first place.

It was administered by idoits or designed that way.

Either way the fact that it is taking this long suggests to me they are having trouble proving a case.

[daisycutter 29,616]

It is my understanding Biffen that no records existed in the first place.

It was administered by idoits or designed that way.

Either way the fact that it is taking this long suggests to me they are having trouble proving a case.

that's just silly od.

you couldn't execute a program of that size (1500 injections, 30+players over many months) without records of who/what/when

additionally you need to monitor for benefits analysis

without records an experimental supplements regime of this scale would be meaningless

danks certainly had records

corcoron was reported somewhere as having misplaced his or "filed" his as unnecessary when danks was relieved and program ceased

[Red and Bluebeard 2,084]

The game at stake , or rather the issue at stake is sovereignty over the governance of all that impacts a sport from a standpoint of 'anything ' contrary to the letter of a rule or the spirit of it's writing. The AFL is without doubt conflicted and clumsily ham-fisted in all of this. Dont anyone be fooled into thinking that just because the D9 cant be sen just yet that there's nothing around the corner that will smack Messendon down and level its lofty aspirations.

There is far, far , too much at stake here for WADA/ASADA to ever allow this to go unpunished. It would unravel the fabric of its world policing.

The teams of the AFL have been used to time scales and such as imposed by the AFL itself. The AFL has no interest in dragging things on too long or even getting to the truth sometimes .It just wants something approaching the look of demonstrating it takes things seriously. Thats not how WADA works.

You can bet just when that Tulla mob think they are away clean they will run smack bang into armegeddon.

Theres an expression...."Keep your powder dry"..... to some this simply means maintaining a readiness for action and the capability of it. Another application of its merits is to wait until the most appropriate time to shoot. Just because WADA arent laying them in the street just yet doesnt mean for one moment that infractions arent on the way. Its about dotting i's and crossing t's.. Most likely they are also just letting out the rope a bit more.

tic toc

Like. The longer this goes on, the weirder it seems to get, but I think your point about the timescales is right on the money.

[old dee 23,792]

that's just silly od.

you couldn't execute a program of that size (1500 injections, 30+players over many months) without records of who/what/when

additionally you need to monitor for benefits analysis

without records an experimental supplements regime of this scale would be meaningless

danks certainly had records

corcoron was reported somewhere as having misplaced his or "filed" his as unnecessary when danks was relieved and program ceased

My memory of early statements dc suggested it was hap hazard. there were people supposedly saying But "I had that yesterday".

Anyway time will tell who is correct.

Not a big number for me either way, I just don't see much happening to the majority of players if any.

Edited December 1, 2013 by old dee

[beelzebub 23,380]

i will take the audacious move of suggesting we redirect this back where it came...the Essenddon thread..

[Red and Bluebeard 2,084]

i will take the audacious move of suggesting we redirect this back where it came...the Essenddon thread..

Is that to rhyme with Armageddon?

[old dee 23,792]

You know I dislike with intensity the iPad method of spelling correction.

Of course it would help considerably if I could spell in the first place!

[beelzebub 23,380]

Is that to rhyme with Armageddon?

lol..subliminally most likely ...of course ( wasnt a typo..... no-siree )

[beelzebub 23,380]

just getting back on topic

this mornings thirst quencher

[Redleg 40,946]

I have a new pet hate.

On saturday night,at a party I attended, a bloke I know merely in passing, interrupted my conversation with some other guys, to spend about 15 minutes telling me of his latest court case and all the machinations thereof. My only comment to him before this began was "hello".

I should have asked him what did I say or do, or what in my body language gave him the idea that I wanted 15 minutes of my life stolen without permission.

What is it with people who just blurt out there life to you, without being asked and then reciprocate by asking you nothing of your own life. I have had enough and the next person who does it to me, will get a sharp rebuke and can watch my back as I walk away.

[beelzebub 23,380]

Red, the minute someone does that, interrupt back with... Hang on a sec...just need a drink. Doesnt matter if you already have one either. You just walk away ( and not back !! lol )