Tom Scully

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Love and hate are two sides of the same coin. When he leaves there will be many jilted Scully is staying fanboys. I'm sure the loudest boos and jeers will come from them.

Edited July 14, 2011 by america de cali

[beelzebub 23,341]

* His patellofemoral joint has begun a process of degrading. This may not come to bite for 10 years, but it may also become chronic within a few.

* His endurance, gut-running and ball finding are elite, his CONSISTENCY for the latter is, so far, not.

* His decision making with the ball is average

* His disposal by hand is close to elite

* His disposal by foot is below average......he fails to hit targets too often at this stage

* His body height and size will always hinder his absolute potential for the one on one contested ball

* He has no significant overhead talent, unlike Jack Trengove.

my God...and the masses havent pilloried you yet ?? lol

As such those observations are quite fair. i would complement them with saying he has above average astuteness within the game and is quite instrumental in linking and presenting etc. But that doesnt detract from what youve said. If the myriad of departments described above were of the elite order as is much of the rest of his game then hed be worth MORE than 5 million. but the reality is he is good, very good in fact but hasnt the polish I would have thought given all the hullabaloo etc.

Most of the above categoryies of skill would I suggest improve ( well youd hope so ) but as a where he's at today its fairly accurate. Many will just not want to acknowledge that, after all he is the second coming

It does concern me that any club, but for mine, OURS will be seduced into a very long contract and that like any player with an injury history could possibly be cruelled before time. Then what ??

We need to make a sound business decision and not a romantic one.

Edited July 14, 2011 by belzebub59

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Tom Scully is going to sign with MFC or with GWS. There's a question about timing.

If he makes a decision sometime before the end of the 2011 season and that decision happens to be that he's staying at MFC we'll all rejoice, however if it happens to be that he's going to GWS he will be crucified by the feral elements who exist in our supporter base - as quite clearly seen in this thread. Or alternatively he could make that decision and lie. He and his management foresaw this problem and he's done none of these things. He's put off making a decison until the end of the year. The only damage caused by this is to the weak-minded who can't handle the pressure of having to wait - not surprisingly they're the same ones who'd be at the head of the crucifiction mob. Tom Scully can stand the pressure - that's what make him who he is.

Old55, I don't think anyone is questioning Scully's ability to make the decision in his 'own time', or his ability to withstand 'the pressure' of making his decision in his own time.

The issue is whether this is an appropriate stance for Scully to take in the current highly exceptional circumstances:

1. given that, as an AFL club, the MFC operates in a 'team' context and is trying to cultivate a 'team oriented' culture; and

2. given the quantum of the offer and the potential for the MFC to secure two first round draft picks, whether the MFC should even be making Scully our long term marquee player in light of his apparent reluctance to commit to the club on anything but his own timing. (Personally, I would like to see more passion, if not total desperation, of a 20 year old player being offered so much by the club to want to commit to it immediately.)

Despite the club's 'professional' PR approach in relation to the Scully situation, I fail to see how Scully's position would not actually be very disruptive to the club in terms of its overall list and media management. It must be an enormous distraction for them.

And, as to why we have well over 1,000 posts here - it's because we're not talking about the contract of some fringe player - Scully's contract will presumably have a direct and immediate impact on the way in which the club approaches all other contracts up for renewal in the next few years.

I just hope there will not be some other list casualties because of Scully's unwillingness to commit to the club on the club's timing, rather than on his own (eg, Sylvia).

[GM11 776]

Why would GWS give up pick one for Thomas when they can get him for nothing? Makes no sense. I think this thread is turning people mad.

Thomas has the whip hand. If he wants to go but wants Collingwood to be compensated, he can tell GWS he'll will only go if they agree to a trade.

He tells Collingwood if they don't agree, he will go anyway. Remember that GCS got two uncontracted players from Brisbane.

Only one was as the uncontracted player. The other was a trade or in the draft (can't remember which).

The interesting part is, if they trade for Thomas now, they still have access to Pendlebury (out of contract again next year).

[old55 23,540]

Old55, I don't think anyone is questioning Scully's ability to make the decision in his 'own time', or his ability to withstand 'the pressure' of making his decision in his own time.

You failed to address the key point in my argument - your whole argument pre-supposes that he's going to sign with MFC.

What if he decides to go to GWS - a very real possibility IMO - he has to announce it at the start of 2011 season or during it - and that just leads to massive gnashing of teeth and a massive problem for the club.

The practical outcome is exaclty the same if he leaves the decision until the end of the season. He's playing GWS from 2012 either way

BTW I think it's a real possibility he'll sign with MFC too and the club appears to be doing everything to promote this outcome (unlike Thompson with Ablett). Those supporters who continue to believe in him are also promoting this outcome. Then there are others who have given up.

Edited July 14, 2011 by old55

[beelzebub 23,341]

Old55, I don't think anyone is questioning Scully's ability to make the decision in his 'own time', or his ability to withstand 'the pressure' of making his decision in his own time.

The issue is whether this is an appropriate stance for Scully to take in the current highly exceptional circumstances:

1. given that, as an AFL club, the MFC operates in a 'team' context and is trying to cultivate a 'team oriented' culture; and

2. given the quantum of the offer and the potential for the MFC to secure two first round draft picks, whether the MFC should even be making Scully our long term marquee player in light of his apparent reluctance to commit to the club on anything but his own timing. (Personally, I would like to see more passion, if not total desperation, of a 20 year old player being offered so much by the club to want to commit to it immediately.)

Despite the club's 'professional' PR approach in relation to the Scully situation, I fail to see how Scully's position would not actually be very disruptive to the club in terms of its overall list and media management. It must be an enormous distraction for them.

And, as to why we have well over 1,000 posts here - it's because we're not talking about the contract of some fringe player - Scully's contract will presumably have a direct and immediate impact on the way in which the club approaches all other contracts up for renewal in the next few years.

I just hope there will not be some other list casualties because of Scully's unwillingness to commit to the club on the club's timing, rather than on his own (eg, Sylvia).

Rather well put. Players are but humans and we're all succeptible to workplace influences and such. Id be very surpised if a few players arent actually shaking their heads some.

It intrigues me that a reason given early for the Scully camp to defer deciding was to see how teh CBA panneed out and how that might advantage them etc. The reality is the numbers they are discussing ( Scully/Velocity) are so far beyond teh norm that there is in reality no impact either way from the CBA , if and when they can come to an agreement. So that is a non-issue in practical terms. So what is.?

Despite any postulating the air surrounding all this has sullied ( npi ) and timetable needs to be revised. Interesting in that he can sign with Melbounre now, but he cant sign 'officially' with GWS until Oct ( unless he has already done so, last Oct ) . So what real motive is there for holding off. All parties pretty well know where the figures have fallen. So why wait ? Why indeed

[Bang Bang Bang 5,824]

Despite any postulating the air surrounding all this has sullied ( npi ) and timetable needs to be revised. Interesting in that he can sign with Melbounre now, but he cant sign 'officially' with GWS until Oct ( unless he has already done so, last Oct ) . So what real motive is there for holding off. All parties pretty well know where the figures have fallen. So why wait ? Why indeed

Because as Peter Blucher put it "you can't make a life-changing decision in between training sessions".

[Guest Thomo]

I, for one, would ask hard questions about whether Tom Scully will be worth this kind of elite money.

What we know about him thus far is.....

* His patellofemoral joint has begun a process of degrading. This may not come to bite for 10 years, but it may also become chronic within a few.

* His endurance, gut-running and ball finding are elite, his CONSISTENCY for the latter is, so far, not.

* His decision making with the ball is average

* His disposal by hand is close to elite

* His disposal by foot is below average......he fails to hit targets too often at this stage

* His body height and size will always hinder his absolute potential for the one on one contested ball

* He has no significant overhead talent, unlike Jack Trengove.

His talents will of course improve, and his value will grow compared to what he offers now......but with what degree of confidence would you think it will reach the level suggested by the money being touted, i.e. Judd like importance?

I don't think it will, and I think we have stockpiled a very good future midfield without Tom Scully. If we get 2 first round picks, as Adrian Anderson is basically confirming, allowing us to address the more obvious needs of size up front and arguably down back that we have, then I think we will have done very well.

I do, however, think he will stay, and I suspect Dean Bailey being re-employed will be the largest factor in his decision.

Also, don't ignore the chance he could go elsewhere than GWS.

I agree with most of your assessment, but I do not think that his disposal by hand is elite, I'd actually say it is poor. He has quick hands, but most of his handballs are at players knees or slightly behind them. His handballs more often than not cause the receiving player to break stride.

His disposal in general normally results in a contest rather than to advantage (kicking and handballing). Quick ands are not necessary elite hands.

I would also add to your list that he doesn't kick many goals. Good mids must kick goals.

Pay him what he is worth to Melbourne, not what he is worth to GWS.

[beelzebub 23,341]

Because as Peter Blucher put it "you can't make a life-changing decision in between training sessions".

Oh give me a break... you think he's training all day ?? There's plenty of 'personal' time for his own decision making and such. Blucher is smoke-screening. Id beleive him in a fit. You seriously buy that ?

[beelzebub 23,341]

Pay him what he is worth to Melbourne, not what he is worth to GWS.

Something many are tempted to overlook. In teh context of teh MFC...not necessarily the open bidding frenzy that is now the AFL...what is his true value to Melbourne going forward. No man is an isalnd.. no Player is a team. In the context of the team, what is he worth. Pay that..no more.

Agree with you there Thomo

[rpfc 28,381]

Oh give me a break... you think he's training all day ?? There's plenty of 'personal' time for his own decision making and such. Blucher is smoke-screening. Id beleive him in a fit. You seriously buy that ?

'Personal' time, huh?

So when you were 19 you reckon you could make such a massive decision while also working full-time in a pressure job, that requires an enormous amount physically and mentally?

You must have been an impressive 19 year old...

[DemonWA 3,932]

Because as Peter Blucher put it "you can't make a life-changing decision in between training sessions".

Rubbish. Blutcher is a used car salesman. In the same interview he said "you can't make a life-changing decision in between training sessions", but shortly after when prompted by Brad Hardie, he admitted that Scully have to anounce his future in less than a week of the Demons last game. A bit hypocritical if you ask me...

He has been sitting on the side lines for half the 2011 season doing rehab on his dodgy knee, dont tell me he wouldnt have thought about this type of stuff whilst watching the boys play form the stands. He could make his decision now if he wanted to. As it turns out he doesnt. But i dont really buy into the "wait to see who will be melbournes new coach" reason for him holding off. Its Sheedy (crack pot, past it etc) or Bailey or Better.

[Wolfmother 182]

In response to the few that think MFC haven't put themselves in the position.

Tom and his management made it clear that they wouldn't make a decision to the end of the season. Melbourne could still produce this offer in round 23 but they choose to bring it forward to round 15 hence their is now an offer from GWS as well (looks like the AFL have thrown out the rule book again about mid season approaches). I have no issue with the MFC talking turkey with the management as that's their job.

But now as you can see from this board people are stating that he should bring the decision forward because of special circumstances and that him waiting is dis-stabilizing the club well the MFC created these special circumstances by tabling the offer early hence they have themselves to blame if it is 'actually' causing issues within the club (I doubt it is).

[rpfc 28,381]

Something many are tempted to overlook. In teh context of teh MFC...not necessarily the open bidding frenzy that is now the AFL...what is his true value to Melbourne going forward. No man is an isalnd.. no Player is a team. In the context of the team, what is he worth. Pay that..no more.

Agree with you there Thomo

His game needs work, no doubt.

But what abou the intangibles like attack on the footy and leadership, effect on other players around him?

The leadership thing is more important than I gave credit prioir to this year.

And we all have seen the effect of McKenzie and Scully coming back into the side (and Trengove after his suspension).

And we will pay what he is worth to us, it's just his worth has been increased marginally due to circumstances. A longer deal will mitigate some of those issues as we don't have to deal with a 22 year old Scully coming out of contract and demanding a great deal in a normal (ie. no expansion teams) year.

[beelzebub 23,341]

'Personal' time, huh?

So when you were 19 you reckon you could make such a massive decision while also working full-time in a pressure job, that requires an enormous amount physically and mentally?

You must have been an impressive 19 year old...

well thankyou rpfc.. Yeah..I was OK..

You must be on the verge of insulting if you think a lad of Scully's caliber , disciplined and driven as he is , hasnt the where with-al to be able to sit down at times with his mentors/ mamangement and discuss this. Hes not a 5yp ffs. Hes not plaaniing and designing a 2 storey house here. All the constraints are pretty well set out.. You dont hink for a moment do you .. ( surely your not that simple ) that al lthis is a decision of the NOW ?? laughable. This will have been inaugurated last year. They will have sat down then and worked a strategy ( which they are playing along to ) all they are waiting on at present is the moment to hit the "GO" button.

Dont be so gullible.

[rpfc 28,381]

well thankyou rpfc.. Yeah..I was OK..

You must be on the verge of insulting if you think a lad of Scully's caliber , disciplined and driven as he is , hasnt the where with-al to be able to sit down at times with his mentors/ mamangement and discuss this. Hes not a 5yp ffs. Hes not plaaniing and designing a 2 storey house here. All the constraints are pretty well set out.. You dont hink for a moment do you .. ( surely your not that simple ) that al lthis is a decision of the NOW ?? laughable. This will have been inaugurated last year. They will have sat down then and worked a strategy ( which they are playing along to ) all they are waiting on at present is the moment to hit the "GO" button.

Dont be so gullible.

I am most definitely not simple, bb...

Perhaps Scully's "calibre, disciplined, and driven" ways have meant that he wanted to give the Demons 2011 season his full attention?

And this strategy you are alluding to - are you saying he has already signed? Or agreed to sign?

Certainly is a bit of a stretch - giving what little we know.

[Arrow 1,257]

I love having this discussion over and over again.

Our job is to impartially enforce the rules of the site, it's not to be opinion neutral on footy matters. Maybe it should be (I'd hand in my quit letter immediately if that were the case), but it's not. Tell Andy or Jack if you don't like it.

On such a topic with people who care so much, I think you guys have done an excellent job. Over-moderating takes the bite out of the discussion or forum that we have and it's fair that everyone has a say and that the majority of their say is heard albeit within the rules. So for that, i personally thank you and the rest of the gang.

What I will say however is that just because you are a moderator does not mean your views are correct. Nasher I'm not having a dig at you personally however, some consider their high position within the board equates to their poo smelling sweeter than everyone elses. I'm all for having a debate but just because you moderate a thread doesn't mean your opinion is any greater than the next persons..

Enough of that, again thanks a million Nasher.

[Guest 36DD]

Anyone realise what a great position we are in? We keep Scully great, if we dont then I think we may even be better off.

I am amazed with everyone on this board jumping at shadows, constructing conspiracy theories, must say its an interesting observation into the human psyche.

We have been crap for so long, now we have a bit of quality on our list, no wonder other clubs are after players like Scully and Gawn, get used to it.

If we have a switched on footy dept, we can continually churn quality players over if need be. WCE lose Judd and they bring in Kennedy and pick 3 (even though Masten is a bit of a spud).

To get quality, other clubs have to give up quality players or high draft picks. If the reported two compo picks in a strong 2012 draft proves accurate who is to say we will not be able to secure players of equal or better talent than Scully.

Everyone talking about Scully being a generational player are a bit ahead of themselves. Judd in his first season was an explosive goal kicking midfielder, who finished 3rd in the B&F. Scully's most impressive performance came against the Dogs, including a 19 disposal last quarter and finished 8th in the B&F.

Get real, why all the nevousness, I am more concerned that we will pay way over the odds for Scully, rather than losing him. Is it because we have been devoid of success and champion players of recent times that we are acting like this?

Get over it people and look at the bigger picture.

Edited July 14, 2011 by 36DD

[Prymke0019 0]

http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/blog/afl-football-operations-manager-adrian-anderson-denies-league-is-thwarting-melbourne-demons-attempt-to-keep-tom-scully-from-joining-gws-giants/20110714-di52.html

Adrian Anderson said this morning that the AFL isn't thwarting our efforts to keep Scully.

What a load of crap. Carlton bringing Judd over with the Visy deal is allowed, but we can't do the same thing?

He just treats us like idiots!

Admit it Adrian, you just want Scully to go to your new lovechild GWS!! What a coincidence taht hte clampdown on third-party agreements begins three months before the end of the season prior to Giants entry into the AFL!

[rpfc 28,381]

Nasher I'm not having a dig at you personally however, some consider their high position within the board equates to their poo smelling sweeter than everyone elses. I'm all for having a debate but just because you moderate a thread doesn't mean your opinion is any greater than the next persons..

Which moderator uses their title to make their opinion greater than others?

No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

[rpfc 28,381]

Anyone realise what a great position we are in? We keep Scully great, if we dont then I think we may even be better off.

I am amazed with everyone on this board jumping at shadows, constructing conspiracy theories, must say its an interesting observation into the human psyche.

We have been crap for so long, now we have a bit of quality on our list, no wonder other clubs are after players like Scully and Gawn, get used to it.

If we have a switched on footy dept, we can continually churn quality players over if need be. WCE lose Judd and they bring in Kennedy and pick 3 (even though Masten is a bit of a spud).

To get quality, other clubs have to give up quality players or high draft picks. If the reported two compo picks in a strong 2012 draft proves accurate who is to say we will not be able to secure players of equal or better talent than Scully.

Everyone talking about Scully being a generational player are a bit ahead of themselves. Judd in his first season was an explosive goal kicking midfielder, who finished 3rd in the B&F. Scully's most impressive performance came against the Dogs, including a 19 disposal last quarter and finished 8th in the B&F.

Get real, why all the nevousness, I am more concerned that we will pay way over the odds for Scully, rather than losing him. Is it because we have been devoid of success and champion players of recent times that we are acting like this?

Get over it people and look at the bigger picture.

You're talking about picks, I am talking about a flesh and bone player that can be a A-grade player.

[DemonWA 3,932]

Perhaps Scully's "calibre, disciplined, and driven" ways have meant that he wanted to give the Demons 2011 season his full attention?

I would have thought that playing AFL footy and knowing/deciding where you want to play next season almsot go hand in hand. Even more so for such a driven person?

The two things (playign footy and deciding where you want to play next season) are not so conflicting that its impossible to do both at the same time. Infact i'd almost say that if giving the 2011 season his full attention was what he really wanted, then he'd be going about things differently.

[Guest 36DD]

You're talking about picks, I am talking about a flesh and bone player that can be a A-grade player.

The picks can be A grade players, even A++++ players, its a perfect case of better the Devil you know, fear of the unknown.

You have taken a very optimistic view on all of this rpfc, why not extend that a little bit further???

Yep we could draft spuds ala Masten, but given how much time is invested in drafting these days, the risk of an Anthony Banik is very remote.

The biggest concern as mentioned before is paying way over the odds for Scully, it may have a possible destabilising effect on his teammates and could see us lose one or two players down the line given too much salary cap is tied up in no31.

[Guest Gotzy15]

I must admit that i am absolutely heartily sick of all this talk,gossip,rumours and innuendo about you know who (scully in case some of you didnt). I am pleading with all my fellow Melbourne supporters to just let it go and be tight lipped until a decision is made at the end of the year which is exactly what will happen.It is as certain as death that nothing is going to happen until then so why worry ourselves sick and continue deliberating every single fact of the matter when it will make no difference whatsoever to the end result.

Personally i would be much happier for us to look at retaining and ultimately rewarding young players like Trenners, Gys, Petterd, Grimes & McKenzie who desperately want to play footy for this club and i am certain would not be tempted to go anywhere else for any sort of money whatsoever. I cant help but think that if it was Trengove or McKenzie in this same situation they wouldnt have let the issue get this far in the 1st place by stating 100% they would be committing to the dees and it was only a matter of time before their contracts were sorted (even if it was at the end of the year) These are the sort of kids we need around our club. Scully has created a massive distraction for the club and lets just hope that it doesnt come back to bite us.

I would love to keep Scully obviously but all those other boys that i mentioned must come first! If Scully is tempted by the big $$$ and does go to GWS then he is not the sort of kid we want around the place and we move on.

Lets forget it and focus on beating the power this week in Darwin. The team is bigger than the individual folks.

[rpfc 28,381]

I would have thought that playing AFL footy and knowing/deciding where you want to play next season almsot go hand in hand. Even more so for such a driven person?

Why? It is a massive decision and hardly one that won't be biased everytime you walk into AAMI Park and see the sentimental things that will sway a decision that has to be right for the individual.

The two things (playign footy and deciding where you want to play next season) are not so conflicting that its impossible to do both at the same time. Infact i'd almost say that if giving the 2011 season his full attention was what he really wanted, then he'd be going about things differently.

I would say that his ability to concentrate on 2011 hasn't been diminished - only our ability to concentrate on 2011...

It's a distraction for the fans and for Harrington. The FD should be shielded from resigning Tom, Colin, and Cale however. But I understand it will affect the club on some level.

Well get used to it. Free agency is on it way and this will happen agian, and contracts will be signed later and later.

Why? Becuase we don't allow League style negotiations during the season for the 'other parties' and so negotiations will be delayed and delayed and Harrington will lose his hair...