Tom Scully

[DemonWA 3,936]

He's a kid, a very honest kid from my eyes, and I don't see him as the cold a calculating bastard as many on here allude to him being.

I believe in the kid and my club's ability to keep a great talent who has not signed anything.

I belive that if the offer really is 7 million over 6 years then there is nothing our club can do to keep a great talent who has not signed anything yet.

[rpfc 28,779]

I belive that if the offer really is 7 million over 6 years then there is nothing our club can do to keep a great talent who has not signed anything yet.

I have faith in the kid to make the right decision and for the club to convince him to stay for significantly less than he would get at GWS.

[rpfc 28,779]

rpfc is sure about it and he is the gospel on all things MFC

And don't you ever forget it...

[Guest Artie Bucco]

again, it all comes down to the presumption that Scully has been in no way deceptive. I hope this is the case, but i'm happy to atleast consider the alternatives and brace myself for life post Scully...

Call it the outlook of typical MFC supporter if you like, but IMO its just a balanced way of looking at things.

Reasons for believing Scully is staying

His family are in melbourne

He did a press conference which alluded to him wanting to stay

He has always said he would discuss contracts at the end of the year so no reason to be alarmed

Promising list of players at MFC

rpfc is sure about it and he is the gospel on all things MFC

reasons for being sceptical about Scully staying

ONCE IN A LIFE TIME CASH or ~ 7 million over 6 years

If he wanted to sign with the club he could have allready

The club wanted to negotiate with him earlier in the season but he has been putting them off

He has been linked with a GWS "done deal" by many varied sources since the start of the season

Draft concessions / player poaching could set up GWS for success, not dissimilar to MFC list?

Potential to forge a culture with a young list - break away from the percevied issues with MFC's leadership group / team culture (which he is rumoured to be unhappy with)

Money talks....

So basically we can sum your post up with:

Reasons to believe Scully - facts

Reasons to disbelieve Scully - value judgments

Ok, so you want to work based on the premise that Scully is being deceptive?

Think about the total buy in for pure committed deception that it would take for him to have taken the stance he has, and to maintain it so convincingly.

Do you really think a kid in his position would do that? That a kid who has achieved what he has, would have those sorts of values and convictions?

And to what end? What is his motivation for this pure committed deception?

To preserve his image? The one that will be in tatters anyway if he does go?

Something doesn't add up, and it appears to be your calculations that are wrong.

Might wanna rethink that one.

[hardtack 10,627]

again, it all comes down to the presumption that Scully has been in no way deceptive. I hope this is the case, but i'm happy to atleast consider the alternatives and brace myself for life post Scully...

Call it the outlook of typical MFC supporter if you like, but IMO its just a balanced way of looking at things.

reasons for being sceptical about Scully staying...

...every one of which can be refuted:

ONCE IN A LIFE TIME CASH or ~ 7 million over 6 years - how much money does one person need? Whatever counter offer the Dees can bring to the table, he will still be rich and his value can only increase over the next 2 or 3 seasons, so why lock himself in to a 6 year contract?

If he wanted to sign with the club he could have allready - his current contract is not completed until the end of season 2011, so why would he?

The club wanted to negotiate with him earlier in the season but he has been putting them off - see previous rebuttal. Would you negotiate with your employer when you still have a few months to run on your current contract knowing that the financial environment of the business is changing? Even if you love your employer, you would probably still want to keep your cards close to your chest until you can get the best possible deal with them.

He has been linked with a GWS "done deal" by many varied sources since the start of the season - varied sources as opposed to reliable sources.

Draft concessions / player poaching could set up GWS for success, not dissimilar to MFC list? - move to GWS = one step forward, three steps back and no guarantees of success.

Potential to forge a culture with a young list - break away from the percevied issues with MFC's leadership group / team culture (which he is rumoured to be unhappy with) - chance to positively influence the culture at his current club as opposed to going to a new club where there are no guarantees the culture would not be any better, and could conceivably be worse.

[DemonWA 3,936]

So basically we can sum your post up with:

Reasons to believe Scully - facts

Reasons to disbelieve Scully - value judgments

Ok, so you want to work based on the premise that Scully is being deceptive?

Think about the total buy in for pure committed deception that it would take for him to have taken the stance he has, and to maintain it so convincingly.

Do you really think a kid in his position would do that? That a kid who has achieved what he has, would have those sorts of values and convictions?

And to what end? What is his motivation for this pure committed deception?

To preserve his image? The one that will be in tatters anyway if he does go?

Something doesn't add up, and it appears to be your calculations that are wrong.

Might wanna rethink that one.

IMO its value judgements against value judgements. Its romantic to believe he will "make the right decision" or weigh up the offers and consider more than just dollar value, but we dont know what he will (or has) chosen. Its realistic to think that there is a chance that he might go. As i said before i think its noble that you all fly the "saint tom" flag which schwabby has also been flying, but i feel that many one hear are so wrapped up in support of the MFC that they wont even consider that the rumours are true and that he has gone. And as for maintaining his stance on wanting to stay, i dont know if he has? He did a press conference months ago where he said he wanted to stay but would make a decision at the end of the year, and that he hasnt spoken to GWS but would "have to" consider the offers if true. There is a big difference betweem wanting to stay at a point in time midseason, and rejecting millions of dolalrs and staying. The year is roling on and the offers seem to be legit based on Callan Wards price tag. IMO 98% of players who hold off negotiations arent happy with where they are or what they have got; there is a possibility the rumours are true.

[Range Rover 1,935]

...every one of which can be refuted:

ONCE IN A LIFE TIME CASH or ~ 7 million over 6 years - how much money does one person need? Whatever counter offer the Dees can bring to the table, he will still be rich and his value can only increase over the next 2 or 3 seasons, so why lock himself in to a 6 year contract?

If the 7 mil for 6 years figure is anywhere near accurate, how could anyone in their right mind not strongly consider that offer? You're talking about setting yourself financially FOR LIFE. For a kid and his family who don't hail from the top end of Toorak, that is some incentive.

It's Melbourne and the "possibility" of becoming rich, or GW$ and the guarantee of it. Hard to refute that logic, I would have thought.

The 6-year contract is an interesting aspect of the mooted deal as well. Didn't his manager Alistair Lynch sign on with Brisbane on a 7-year contract back ion the early 90's? No doubt he could vouch to Tom first hand on the security and peace of mind that must have given him during his life as an elite footballer.

No need to worry about injuries or form. The millions will keep rolling in year after year after year.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Range Rover

[rpfc 28,779]

IMO its value judgements against value judgements. Its romantic to believe he will "make the right decision" or weigh up the offers and consider more than just dollar value, but we dont know what he will (or has) chosen. Its realistic to think that there is a chance that he might go. As i said before i think its noble that you all fly the "saint tom" flag which schwabby has also been flying, but i feel that many one hear are so wrapped up in support of the MFC that they wont even consider that the rumours are true and that he has gone. And as for maintaining his stance on wanting to stay, i dont know if he has? He did a press conference months ago where he said he wanted to stay but would make a decision at the end of the year, and that he hasnt spoken to GWS but would "have to" consider the offers if true. There is a big difference betweem wanting to stay at a point in time midseason, and rejecting millions of dolalrs and staying. The year is roling on and the offers seem to be legit based on Callan Wards price tag. IMO 98% of players who hold off negotiations arent happy with where they are or what they have got; there is a possibility the rumours are true.

This isn't your view.

You think he is gone. Not that there is a chance he might go.

[H_T 3,049]

If the 7 mil for 6 years figure is anywhere near accurate, how could anyone in their right mind not strongly consider that offer? You're talking about setting yourself financially FOR LIFE. For a kid and his family who don't hail from the top end of Toorak, that is some incentive.

It's Melbourne and the "possibility" of becoming rich, or GW$ and the guarantee of it. Hard to refute that logic, I would have thought.

The 6-year contract is an interesting aspect of the mooted deal as well. Didn't his manager Alistair Lynch sign on with Brisbane on a 6-year contract back ion the early 90's? No doubt he could vouch to Tom first hand on the security and peace of mind that must have given him during his life as an elite footballer.

No need to worry about injuries, form. The millions will keep rolling in year after year after year.

Lynch's was a $1 million / 10 year contract.

Tom would be handsomely looked after at the Demons.

[rpfc 28,779]

If the 7 mil for 6 years figure is anywhere near accurate, how could anyone in their right mind not strongly consider that offer? You're talking about setting yourself financially FOR LIFE. For a kid and his family who don't hail from the top end of Toorak, that is some incentive.

It's Melbourne and the "possibility" of becoming rich, or GW$ and the guarantee of it. Hard to refute that logic, I would have thought.

The 6-year contract is an interesting aspect of the mooted deal as well. Didn't his manager Alistair Lynch sign on with Brisbane on a 6-year contract back ion the early 90's? No doubt he could vouch to Tom first hand on the security and peace of mind that must have given him during his life as an elite footballer.

No need to worry about injuries or form. The millions will keep rolling in year after year after year.

Setting himself up for life?

The kid will make $15m at least from footy at the Dees.

As soon as he was picked at number 1 he was set up for life.

(Assuming he spends it wisely)

[Range Rover 1,935]

Setting himself up for life?

The kid will make $15m at least from footy at the Dees.

As soon as he was picked at number 1 he was set up for life.

(Assuming he spends it wisely)

Maybe. Possibly. But again, no guarantees. His knee injury lay-off would surely have given him an insight into how quickly things can end at the mere buckling of a ligament.

And perhaps there are other pressures and considerations within that family. Maybe it's not just about setting Tom up for life, but taking care of Mum, Dad and sis as well.

I'm sure all of those things are discussed around the Scully dinner table as they decide whether or not to cash in on this winning tattslotto ticket.

[DemonWA 3,936]

...every one of which can be refuted:

ONCE IN A LIFE TIME CASH or ~ 7 million over 6 years - how much money does one person need? Whatever counter offer the Dees can bring to the table, he will still be rich and his value can only increase over the next 2 or 3 seasons, so why lock himself in to a 6 year contract?

If he wanted to sign with the club he could have allready - his current contract is not completed until the end of season 2011, so why would he?

The club wanted to negotiate with him earlier in the season but he has been putting them off - see previous rebuttal. Would you negotiate with your employer when you still have a few months to run on your current contract knowing that the financial environment of the business is changing? Even if you love your employer, you would probably still want to keep your cards close to your chest until you can get the best possible deal with them.

He has been linked with a GWS "done deal" by many varied sources since the start of the season - varied sources as opposed to reliable sources.

Draft concessions / player poaching could set up GWS for success, not dissimilar to MFC list? - move to GWS = one step forward, three steps back and no guarantees of success.

Potential to forge a culture with a young list - break away from the percevied issues with MFC's leadership group / team culture (which he is rumoured to be unhappy with) - chance to positively influence the culture at his current club as opposed to going to a new club where there are no guarantees the culture would not be any better, and could conceivably be worse.

Every one of your rebuttals can also be refuted;

ONCE IN A LIFE TIME CASH or ~ 7 million over 6 years - how much money does one person need? Whatever counter offer the Dees can bring to the table, he will still be rich and his value can only increase over the next 2 or 3 seasons, so why lock himself in to a 6 year contract? Why not lock yourself in to a long term contract for massive dollars, it is a once in a lifetime oppertunity

If he wanted to sign with the club he could have allready - his current contract is not completed until the end of season 2011, so why would he?Many other players have signed on before their contracts expired, what makes tom scully different to these guys?

The club wanted to negotiate with him earlier in the season but he has been putting them off - see previous rebuttal. Would you negotiate with your employer when you still have a few months to run on your current contract knowing that the financial environment of the business is changing? Even if you love your employer, you would probably still want to keep your cards close to your chest until you can get the best possible deal with them.?if you were 100% happy with your current employmer and they knew about a hefty job offer that you had been offered, so were then offering you an attractive new contract which paid you more than your piers, i think you would sign on the dotted line out of mutural respect for your peers and the company who see so much in you?

He has been linked with a GWS "done deal" by many varied sources since the start of the season - varied sources as opposed to reliable sources..Rumors dont start for no reason

Draft concessions / player poaching could set up GWS for success, not dissimilar to MFC list? - move to GWS = one step forward, three steps back and no guarantees of success.No guarantees of success at the Dees either

Potential to forge a culture with a young list - break away from the percevied issues with MFC's leadership group / team culture (which he is rumoured to be unhappy with) - chance to positively influence the culture at his current club as opposed to going to a new club where there are no guarantees the culture would not be any better, and could conceivably be worse.Easier to build culture from scratch than it is to change a pre existing one

Point being there are no hard facts on either side of the arguement

[hardtack 10,627]

If the 7 mil for 6 years figure is anywhere near accurate, how could anyone in their right mind not strongly consider that offer? You're talking about setting yourself financially FOR LIFE. For a kid and his family who don't hail from the top end of Toorak, that is some incentive.

It's Melbourne and the "possibility" of becoming rich, or GW$ and the guarantee of it. Hard to refute that logic, I would have thought.

The 6-year contract is an interesting aspect of the mooted deal as well. Didn't his manager Alistair Lynch sign on with Brisbane on a 7-year contract back ion the early 90's? No doubt he could vouch to Tom first hand on the security and peace of mind that must have given him during his life as an elite footballer.

No need to worry about injuries or form. The millions will keep rolling in year after year after year.

It all depends on what his personal values are. Call me lazy, but I really don't need to say much more as the previous two posters responded with pretty much what I would have said on your views anyway.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Lynch's was a $1 million / 10 year contract.

Tom would be handsomely looked after at the Demons.

Thanks for correction HT. Thought it was 6 or 7.

[DemonWA 3,936]

This isn't your view.

You think he is gone. Not that there is a chance he might go.

thanks for telling me what my views are?

I have #31 on my jumper (which i bought after his press conference). I argue till im red in the face with my mates when they tell me his is gone. I think he hasnt made a decision yet which is why i dont think he has gone, but yes it is possible that he may choose to walk; He may choose to stay, or he may choose to go. I am able to consider life/MFC without Tom Scully!

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Fwiw, I steadfastly believe that Scully has not yet agreed to anything, nor made any decision on his future at this stage, and I believe only the weak or fuzzy-minded followers believe anything different.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Artie Bucco

[rpfc 28,779]

thanks for telling me what my views are?

I have #31 on my jumper (which i bought after his press conference). I argue till im red in the face with my mates when they tell me his is gone. I think he hasnt made a decision yet which is why i dont think he has gone, but yes it is possible that he may choose to walk; He may choose to stay, or he may choose to go. I am able to consider life/MFC without Tom Scully!

And I am able to consider life trusting a 19 year old and believing my club can keep a generational player.

[Cards13 9,117]

.... I can't believe I opened this thread again.

[Samsara 65]

.... I can't believe I opened this thread again.

It's so addictive. You always expect something new that will provide some sort of strong evidence either way, despite knowing full well that Tom said he would not sign anything until October!

Edited July 5, 2011 by Samsara

[Guest The Tweed Pig]

Scully's comment that his teammates have full "trust" in him hasn't left me. When you're an AFL footballer your teammates mean everything to you. It was a very salient remark.

He may go, although I don't believe he will, but I'm certain that he hasn't agreed to anything when it comes to another club. I also trust him when he says he hasn't spoken to GWS. And I don't know why this surprises so many. He's obviously aware they're interested, so he doesn't need to discuss anything with them until the appropriate time, which will be at the end of the year.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Theres an element to al this that leaves a very distasteful tinge in my mouth and I refer to the ridiculously open flouting of any so called rules by GWS, and it must be doing it with some sort of infered support of the Vlad led Empire.

The Doggies are looking like theyll lose Callan and to a deal being spruiked right before our eyes in seeming ccntravention of the "rules'

There are no rules anymnore. The AFL is making this plain. They seek to do whatever by whatever.

If there is really anythign to be learned by all of this is that the Melbourne Football Club must adopt some very "grey" pactices when developinig its "asusredness of remaining meaningful in the competition"

Many lambast the Carlton practices, theri arrogance of pushing ahead for the Greater Carlton Good. The adpoting of "ambassadorial" roles to supercede the brown-bagging.

We must do exactly the same. We have a network of people associated with this club from the Monied end of town. This must be used in any way which pushes available means of doing things "right" to the maximum

If this club wants to retain the services of its 'star' brigade it will need to get inventive.

Its not a case of flouting the rules... as its obvious there are none really anymore.

[nutbean 8,838]

Scully's comment that his teammates have full "trust" in him hasn't left me. When you're an AFL footballer your teammates mean everything to you. It was a very salient remark.

He may go, although I don't believe he will, but I'm certain that he hasn't agreed to anything when it comes to another club. I also trust him when he says he hasn't spoken to GWS. And I don't know why this surprises so many. He's obviously aware they're interested, so he doesn't need to discuss anything with them until the appropriate time, which will be at the end of the year.

So new and yet so wise

[Harcourt 146]

Scully's comment that his teammates have full "trust" in him hasn't left me. When you're an AFL footballer your teammates mean everything to you. It was a very salient remark.

He may go, although I don't believe he will, but I'm certain that he hasn't agreed to anything when it comes to another club. I also trust him when he says he hasn't spoken to GWS. And I don't know why this surprises so many. He's obviously aware they're interested, so he doesn't need to discuss anything with them until the appropriate time, which will be at the end of the year.

10 posts in 5 years! You must be a real lurker!

[P-man 13,366]

How in the world are GWS able to offer these sort of figures? Will half their list be paid in shiny pennies?

7 mil over 6 years for a second year player is ridiculous. He's yet to really prove himself if we're being perfectly honest.

[Tatu 416]

Here we go again.....