Newcomer here

First post

We are getting towards the mid-point of the season and I was wondering what people think about the senior list turnover for next year. You would assume that at least 4 players would be turned over (rare that we would take less than 4 in the draft and rookie upgrades combined).

Before making comment or listing alternate players - please only list senior list players. Ie, don't mention Juice! He is an upgrade to senior list this year because of a long term injury but will go back to the rookie list at the end of the season for the purpose of list maintenance (when long term injuries are disregarded).

Also this is about delists. Any trade will render a player in return or a draft pick that will likely be used.

I've disregarded the 2010 draft picks because they are on minimum 2 year deals and have to be given a chance.

My take is the 4 have to come from (in alphabetical order):

- Bate

- Bennell

- Dunn

- Jetta

- Fitzpatrick

- MacDonald (as in Joel)

- Maric

- Martin

- dare I say it...Morton (can't see this happening...we will persist or trade him at the very least)

- Spencer (though this would be surprising given our lack of ruck depth and the fact he is a new promote)

- Strauss

- Warnock (but we need him for depth)

- Wonaeamerri

For me its Fitzpatrick, Joel Mac, Strauss and one of Bate and Dunn.

I like a lot of these guys but there has to be 4! And personally I think losing Joel Mac's depth would be a mistake but I reckon that's the way they will go.

One last thing - please do not respond knocking suggestions if you don't offer up alternatives!

My recollection is that the minimum has been 3 players turned over.

Will Juice go back? I'm not certain that he would, considering he didn't come onto the senior list to replace a player with a LTI that will return, he took Bruce's vacant spot.

In any case, Juice WILL be let go.

Strauss will be given more time, as will Fitzpatrick.

My guess is 3 selected from Bate, Dunn, Juice, MacDonald.

Of course, it's likely that all of this will be moot once the new CBA is negotiated between the AFL and the AFLPA.

The AFLPA is pushing for the (likely) abolishment of the rookie list, with those spots being added to the senior list.

It is anyone's guess how it will change things, but I'd guess the minimum turnover will remain the same, but it will also mean we won't need to "find room" to upgrade Evans or Nicholson.

I'd say this new setup would put Cam Johnston's and Robbie Campbell's positions in jeopardy.

Fitzpatrick is a 200cm Ruck/Forward with two years on the list both heavily injury affected.

Just a couple of weeks ago he kicked 7 in the Casey reserves and last year Chris Connolly described him as a '200 game player'.

He is on of the players on our list that excites me the most!

I would be astounded if we were to delist someone with such tremendous upside so early into his career.

One point worth making.

This is a compromised draft because of GWS. First 2 picks might be pick 16 and 36, which the next pick in the late 50s.

I wouldn't be surprised if we only drafted 2 players in the national draft, maximum 3. We can also easily keep Evans and Nicholson on the Rookie list for one more season so won't need to delist anyone for them either (even with a promise to promote them if they deserve it ala the Jordie McKenzie arrangement).

Basically my point is we might only delist as few as 2 players this year, maximum 3 in my opinion.

Newcomer here

First post

We are getting towards the mid-point of the season and I was wondering what people think about the senior list turnover for next year. You would assume that at least 4 players would be turned over (rare that we would take less than 4 in the draft and rookie upgrades combined).

Before making comment or listing alternate players - please only list senior list players. Ie, don't mention Juice! He is an upgrade to senior list this year because of a long term injury but will go back to the rookie list at the end of the season for the purpose of list maintenance (when long term injuries are disregarded).

Also this is about delists. Any trade will render a player in return or a draft pick that will likely be used.

I've disregarded the 2010 draft picks because they are on minimum 2 year deals and have to be given a chance.

My take is the 4 have to come from (in alphabetical order):

- Bate

- Bennell

- Dunn

- Jetta

- Fitzpatrick

- MacDonald (as in Joel)

- Maric

- Martin

- dare I say it...Morton (can't see this happening...we will persist or trade him at the very least)

- Spencer (though this would be surprising given our lack of ruck depth and the fact he is a new promote)

- Strauss

- Warnock (but we need him for depth)

- Wonaeamerri

For me its Fitzpatrick, Joel Mac, Strauss and one of Bate and Dunn.

I like a lot of these guys but there has to be 4! And personally I think losing Joel Mac's depth would be a mistake but I reckon that's the way they will go.

One last thing - please do not respond knocking suggestions if you don't offer up alternatives!

Bate, Dunn, Maric, Strauss, Juice and it pains me to say it ... Wona. Thin ice, all of them.

Spencer, Jetta and Joel Mac probably get another year and Warnock would have some trade value if not kept for depth.

Martin has removed himself from this list and credit to him. Bennell is safe for now but needs to show way more.

It would be good to have a look at Fitzy in the ones at some stage later in the year. Not sure I like his build for a KPP. Those small shoulders are a worry.

Edited May 26, 201114 yr by Range Rover

Bate, Dunn, Maric, Strauss and it pains me to say it ... Wona. Thin ice, all of them.

Maric? I reckon he's shown a heap so far this season, his first year he's had a real crack in the senior team. Still extremely young and in every game he's played I notice that he's involved in several goals every single match (whether kicking them or setting them up). He also is applying good defensive pressure. He has a heap of promise imo.

Dunn- is out of form, absolutely no way he's delistable material though. Is capable of putting in really performances at AFL level, as was proven by his 2010 season.

Strauss- no way he'll be delisted, first 2 years ruined with injury. This his 3rd season and he's proven to be dominant at VFL level. Got to give him a chance at least to show he can make it at AFL level. Also plays in a position that we really need on our list (HBF)

Bate- too good a player to delist, but would love to send him packing to GWS for a 2nd rounder

didnt bate sign a 2 yr deal last year?

very harsh on Maric, he finally starts showing signs of maybe being able to cut it as an AFL player and people are calling for him to be delisted

we will have to trade someone tho as lookin hard to delist many

very harsh on Maric, he finally starts showing signs of maybe being able to cut it as an AFL player and people are calling for him to be delisted

Not a call for delisting just saying these guys can't exist on the fringes forever. Now's the time for some of them to step up with the injuries we have. The reality is not all of them will.

I would think Joel is sound insurance for the backline's depth.. Plus hes a bit older..and adds a bit of maturity to the team. Doubt hes going anywhere for a year or two, i.e until someone usurps his position.

I think Bate is quickly exhausting all his get out of jail cards.

Maric has shown something.. more than some others can say.

Struass.. relevance factor to us ?? hard to know.. Seems others are scooting past him though. Endangered list, quite possibly.

Juice...well whats left to say. Hes actuyally tries a littel bit this year, but probably too little too late.Others coming through, make room etc.

Wonna....phew... heres a hard call. Lit up the game liek a Christmas tree then ....... gone. Has "fitness" issues. probably eascape any cull this yuear but would be on notice youd have to feel.

Dunn... avery good VFL player...enopugh said

whomever's suggesting Fitzy...youd have to be joking. Hes got at least 2 more years to develop before he'll be looked at.

Warnock .... hmmmm..

Blease...hmmm (also ) needs to get a few runs on board to esacpe suspicion.

All in all it will all depend on how many the FD's looking to churn. Will depend in turn on how many it feels it can get via trade or draft.

I suspect between 6-9 will go at seasons end...one way or another I think some might go as sweeteners to some pick swapping.

and hell we've only touched the players !!!!!!

It would be good to have a look at Fitzy in the ones at some stage later in the year. Not sure I like his build for a KPP. Those small shoulders are a worry.

G Ablett Snr had very small shoulders, never stopped him.... It's not so much the size of the shoulders, it's the 'slope' of them.... Harder to stick a tackle, which is a win.

Strauss contracted for next year

Before making comment or listing alternate players - please only list senior list players. Ie, don't mention Juice! He is an upgrade to senior list this year because of a long term injury but will go back to the rookie list at the end of the season for the purpose of list maintenance (when long term injuries are disregarded).

Wrong - he's the nominated rookie because we've only got 1 vet.

My take is the 4 have to come from (in alphabetical order):

...

- Jetta

- Fitzpatrick

...

ABCDEFG ...

One last thing - please do not respond knocking suggestions if you don't offer up alternatives!

It depends on the player's contract status - delisting contracted players is more difficult.

Information on this is available on the various forums and it's reasonably accurate as far as I can tell - a few errors here and there.

G Ablett Snr had very small shoulders, never stopped him.... It's not so much the size of the shoulders, it's the 'slope' of them.... Harder to stick a tackle, which is a win.

G Ablett Senior had a torso like a 1000 year old sequoia tree and the leap of Superman!

Fitzpatrick's definitely got those 'sloping' shoulders you're referring to. Not sure they will serve him well aginst gorillas at senior level, but we'll see.

Ah yes..take Strauss off the endangered list for 2011...lol

Keep in mind that Nicholson and Evans will be pushing for spots on the senior list next year aswell, may have to delist 5...

- Bate (trade)

- Warnock (trade)

- Spencer (a chance to go back on the rookie list if he can)

- Aussie (would be sad, but he hasn't really improved much from a couple years back)

- Morton (hopefully he stays, but would be attractive to most AFL teams)

It is quite hard at this stage, i mean at the start of the year Stef Martin was nearly certain to get the ass and many were expecting Bartram to have a bad year, now both are prime for a contract extension.

I would have thought that a few of the guys mentioned would still be contracted next year.

Strauss has already been mentioned, but i thought we had most of the list signed for next year.

I'm pretty sure Maric signed an extension last year and based on this years form, none of Maric, Spencer (was playing well at Casey) would be dropped. Fitzpatrick would most likely be safe as well given Chris Connoly apparently is a massive fan of the kid.

I would think Bate has some big ??? against he's name, however i thought Dunn also signed an extension last year after his strong year.

So that leaves Bate, Bennell, MacDonald, Jeta, Morton, Aussie for mine. Realistically, Morton could end up a GWS, though i wouldn't like to see this happen.

I wouldn't be able to choose which one would be delisted out of that group.

Green, Maric, Martin, Newton, Scully, Sylvia and Aussie are all out of contract at the end of the year

If either Malthouse or Roos take over I would say Bate would be safe. I reckon a new coach would have a crack at getting him to play a role.

Gone are Newton, Dunn, Spencer.

Evans and Nicholson likely to be elevated as we'll want a new contigent of rookies.

That leaves some on thin ice. Maric, Jetta, Bennell will probably stay. Wonaeamirri is in a little trouble but I think is a keep.

Do we offer some up for trade. Jones? Morton? Davey even? Can't see it happening, although I'd be open to offers. I reckon they'll want to use their first 2 picks in the draft at least.

It appears as a club we're running out of deadwood, let the new growth flourish.

Green, Maric, Martin, Newton, Scully, Sylvia and Aussie are all out of contract at the end of the year

Hurts but I have a feeling Wonaeamirri might be cut. Maric will stay as he is a top 25 pick in his third year of AFL and is showing promise.

Also, people seem to forget - Newton is still a rookie, but for this season he has senior status because we only have one veteran in Green. So Newton can't be included in the players cut.

And also, hurry up with Sylvia's next deal. Hasn't been mentioned anywhere at all but I'm sure over the next few weeks and months that will change.

Edit: Oh, and welcome to Demonland, Newcomer.

Edited May 26, 201114 yr by eth38

One point worth making.

This is a compromised draft because of GWS. First 2 picks might be pick 16 and 36, which the next pick in the late 50s.

I wouldn't be surprised if we only drafted 2 players in the national draft, maximum 3. We can also easily keep Evans and Nicholson on the Rookie list for one more season so won't need to delist anyone for them either (even with a promise to promote them if they deserve it ala the Jordie McKenzie arrangement).

Basically my point is we might only delist as few as 2 players this year, maximum 3 in my opinion.

i believe there is minimum required involvement in the National Draft, where clubs are required to take a minimum of 4 players, so we need to lose four players from the senior list, excluding rookies, this may also mean that it is difficult to upgrade rookies onto the senior list as it would require more spots?

If our third pick is in the 50s I'm not sure that we gain more by booting out someone we picked up in the 50s or earlier in the past and have then put development into.

i believe there is minimum required involvement in the National Draft, where clubs are required to take a minimum of 4 players, so we need to lose four players from the senior list, excluding rookies

I haven't seen this.

I've heard there are a minimum of three changes required each year.

i believe there is minimum required involvement in the National Draft, where clubs are required to take a minimum of 4 players, so we need to lose four players from the senior list, excluding rookies, this may also mean that it is difficult to upgrade rookies onto the senior list as it would require more spots?

Don't you use draft picks to upgrade your rookies? IIRC we had six picks last year, used on Cook, Howe, Davis and McDonald, and then to upgrade McKenzie and Spencer.

- Bate (trade)

- Warnock (trade)

Blokes in their mid-twenties who struggle to get a game have very little trade currency.