Newcomer

Overall career wise...he's been great off the rookie list. But these dats he's not physical enough for the modern game to be small fwd or defender. So I think he's limited to playing wing...could provide the badly needed spread with foot skills. That relies on (1) a huge pre-season; (2) teams no longer tagging him because of his form fallout in the last 2 seasons; and (3) him getting some confidence back. I would have thought he plays rd 1 but no longer gets excuses. If form is not there...straight to Casey.

We're supposedly trying to address a mid now with Dawes out of the way (granted may be an inside mid) http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/7415/newsid/149842/default.aspx With Ray likely to stay at Saints and supposedly we have showed no interest in Stevens...any word on which mids we will target now? Must be an under the radar type given we don't have much to offer in terms of trades other than Martin, Gys and Morton. Maybe it's just delisted FAs like Rodan. And agree with Cowboy on please no more Joel Mac in the midfield.

Martin is terrible forward...runs around like a headless chook. Needs to play ruck. Been a while since he has played back, wouldn't assume he could take a monster (maybe).

If we are giving up pick 13 as part of the package...surely we want more than rounds...maybe a blair or goldsack to even out the trade This surely hinges off Viney. If we have to use pick 3, we will likely want more value out of pick 13 won't we?

Wellingham to WCE Dawes to Melb Stef Martin and Koby Stevens to Coll Maybe some exchange of picks (WCE come up with something good here) to even up for Coll

If the price is right (ie, 2 year deal, reasonable $s only have to trade a 3rd rounder for him) then get him. Will likely be best 22 or close for at least 2 years while all the young players continue to develop. Very inexperienced team. Successful clubs have shown you can't get better by just throwing kids the wolves. So yeah, if it is a bit of a deckchair shuffle for say Ray in, Bate out...if the price is right I think that's a good (but not great) reshuffle. Really don't think a Ray pick up will get in the way of trying to land a Wellingham (loooking unlikely but WCE still have to stump up to Coll) or Dawes or Caddy.

Very happy with this pick-up. All Geelong mates reckon he absolutely can play. Just that in a club of absolute champion 30 year olds...you have to blood young players. So late 20s good but not great players miss out. Will easily be best 22. What he will add from his geelong experience will be invaluable...as pointed out on this thread, won the Harley clubman award and got a standing ovation from 1000 in the room. Clearly they rate and value him at Geelong...they all just appreciate the club needs to go in another direction and wish him well at the dees... http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/149176/default.aspx

Yeah don't know about this poor bugger Jamar stuff. He was pretty ordinary for 6 or 7 years on our list and allowed to develop. He needs to stay. The other options are: - Martin (not a permanent ruckman and way too inconsistent...must eliminate the dumb stuff (as G Lyon called it...dumb player) before he is to be relied on as #1) - Spencer (ahh, no) - Gawn (already had 2 knee recos, looked pretty slow last year, deserves a chance but a big if) - Fitzpatrick (no way a ruck...highly doubt will be a forward either) - Sellar (not a ruck) - Clark (must play forward)

Surely Bate and Dunn are gone. Got to give players like Strauss and Jetta a chance to prove themselves. Bate and Dunn have had so many chances. Much more upside with Strauss and Jetta.

Our top pick and our pick straight after as Scully compensation are off the table...but why wouldn't we use any other pick plus a player to get Boak? I rate him. Would be happy to use our mid first rd compensation pick + Sylvia for Boak. Presuming we finish 3rd last (big if ATM!) and GWS and GC stay out of Viney stakes, could be picks 3 and 4 plus Boak and Viney! For saypick 12 and Sylvia. Competition is Geelong, Carlton and Essendon. All will likely be top 8 so picks will be lower than our mid round scully compo pick. Just got to hope Boak has some sort of interest in going from one battler club to another!

Biggest concern of the non-FAs for me is Blease. Others I think will re-sign because won't want to go into draft. GWS will in all likelihood finish last and get #1 preseason draft pick. Blease may want to go up with old mate $cully. I reckon may be up to 7 list changes at end of year (mix of delistings and FA departures). 5 draft picks (bumper draft and likely will have 5 picks inside top 40 picks), upgrade Nicho (depending on the rest of his season) and hopefully a FA signing (Boak would be dream, otherwise maybe Montagna? Saints have salary cap problems and he may be expendable if they pay to keep Goddard). I'd like one more year out of Green. Reckon he's still got a bit to offer. And he's a veteran so salary doesn't count much to cap and gives one automatic rookie update (Magner again). Magner will likely have to spend one more year on rookie list and get list spot in next draft. Hopefully Sheahan kicks on and is in mix for upgrade next year. Shows more AFL ability traits to me than Fitzpatrick.

Newcomer here Not that regular a user of this forum so apologies if this has been done in another thread (please kindly point me in that direction if it has) Neeld has been pretty open about having a tough, disciplined, play the percentages game plan...ie, the Collingwood plan he implemented Supposedly in his dees interview he put the players names on the board and set out how he wants to play and where the missing pieces are So assuming he wants to play the Collingwood plan...what do we think his starting 22 will be? I've had a first crack based on lining up against the pies 2011 GF side... B: Harry O (Garland) , Reid (Sellar?..though surely he won't be ready for rd1), Toovey (Bartram or Joel Mac) HB: Shaw (Grimes), Tarrant (Frawley), Maxwell (Rivers) C: Thomas (Blease?), Swan (Trengove), Ben Johnson (Bate or Jones) HF: Didak (Sylvia), Cloke (Watts...not yet...but will have to play this lead up game), Krakour (Jurrah) F: Sidebottom (Green), Dawes (Clark), Blair (Magner/Couch/Evans?) Foll: Jolly (Jamar), Pendles (Gys...?), Ball (Maloney or McKenzie) Inter: Wellingham (Bennell/Nicho?), Brown (Stef or Dunny), Davis (Davey), Fasolo (Tapscott) Our X factors that could give us competitive advantage over the pies: Howe, Petterd

All really good suggestions and good discussion on this thread. A couple of notes: 1) The "moving" to the rookie list option that is getting thrown around on this thread requires delisting then redrafting in the rookie draft. So it's certainly not as simple as just shifting them between lists. You will also risk losing that player to another team that picks earlier in the rookie draft. When it has been done in the past with Juice, Meeson and McNamara...all have been delisted first and then redrafted as they were available when we picked in the rookie draft. 2) Also a trade will just bring back another player (and therefore back to square one in terms of needing to delist numbers) or will return a draft pick. If the draft pick then does not get used then the trade was basically to delist a player but look after them by giving them a new home. Ie, we would get nothing from the trade if we don't use the draft pick. If we use the draft pick then we are back in the same spot of having to delist someone else. Both the trading for player or picks scenarios are effectively one in one out so doesn't impact the delisting. [Note: Of course there is the scenario where we say trade Morton, get a 2nd round pick, then ditch our other later picks and just use the Morton pick and 2 others in the draft to meet our 3. Though this would be unlikely because it would mean we use our 1st and 2nd round picks and the 2nd round pick for Morton and leave our 3rd round pick on the table. We will definately be picking in at least the first 3 rounds of the draft.] Therefore trades really can't be factored into the delists. And I think (correct me if I'm wrong here) we have a maxed out rookie list. So to delist and then re rookie draft would mean we would have to clear some spots on the rookie list. This will be tough if we don't promote any rookies this year. So all in all - trades and re-rookeeing are a separate analysis. There has to be 3-4 delisted. Tough call and will be interesting to see how some of the fringe players go in the 2nd part of the year.

Newcomer here First post We are getting towards the mid-point of the season and I was wondering what people think about the senior list turnover for next year. You would assume that at least 4 players would be turned over (rare that we would take less than 4 in the draft and rookie upgrades combined). Before making comment or listing alternate players - please only list senior list players. Ie, don't mention Juice! He is an upgrade to senior list this year because of a long term injury but will go back to the rookie list at the end of the season for the purpose of list maintenance (when long term injuries are disregarded). Also this is about delists. Any trade will render a player in return or a draft pick that will likely be used. I've disregarded the 2010 draft picks because they are on minimum 2 year deals and have to be given a chance. My take is the 4 have to come from (in alphabetical order): - Bate - Bennell - Dunn - Jetta - Fitzpatrick - MacDonald (as in Joel) - Maric - Martin - dare I say it...Morton (can't see this happening...we will persist or trade him at the very least) - Spencer (though this would be surprising given our lack of ruck depth and the fact he is a new promote) - Strauss - Warnock (but we need him for depth) - Wonaeamerri For me its Fitzpatrick, Joel Mac, Strauss and one of Bate and Dunn. I like a lot of these guys but there has to be 4! And personally I think losing Joel Mac's depth would be a mistake but I reckon that's the way they will go. One last thing - please do not respond knocking suggestions if you don't offer up alternatives!