yep no excuses

Moloney, Frawley and Jurrah are late withdrawls, three blokes from Casey twos are playing, still no excuses?

now now C&B maintain your humour.

Is one of them Campbell he seems to have vanished of the face of the earth.

I have asked elsewhere but where is he?

now now C&B maintain your humour.

Is one of them Campbell he seems to have vanished of the face of the earth.

I have asked elsewhere but where is he?

its no laughing matter

our supporters' unwillingness to stick by the club and the constant unwarranted criticism is really starting to pizz me off

its no laughing matter

our supporters' unwillingness to stick by the club and the constant unwarranted criticism is really starting to pizz me off

"starting" ?????

FMD

Good call dc.

its no laughing matter

our supporters' unwillingness to stick by the club and the constant unwarranted criticism is really starting to pizz me off

Does the constant unwarranted criticism and unwillingness to stick by the club include your's and ADC's constant criticism and negativity of Scully's contract negotiations with the Mfc ?

Does the constant unwarranted criticism and unwillingness to stick by the club include your's and ADC's constant criticism and negativity of Scully's contract negotiations with the Mfc ?

Good point!

its no laughing matter

our supporters' unwillingness to stick by the club and the constant unwarranted criticism is really starting to pizz me off

Part of being a member in a democracy is you get to voice your opinion.

Now somtimes that means criticism.

If the criticism does not suit then it does not necessarily mean it is incorrect.

Just the alternative to your view.

If you follow the MFC one of the things you need in large amounts is a sense of humour.

Because amongst other things there are plenty of black periods to endure.

What I am saying is that the issue of our forward pressure is, I repeat, overplayed because of our low forward entries. Surely you can see that there is some cross-correlation between these stats. For example, we were roundly criticised after the WCE game due to the fact that we had no tackles inside f50 in the first quarter. Shocking, I know. But in that same quarter, we had only three i50s, of which one was a backwards kick from the opposition to a loose defender. Pretty hard to apply forward pressure that quarter. All I am pointing out is that, while you need defensive pressure to maximise your forward entries, by definition you actually need forward entries to be able to apply defensive pressure in the first place. Otherwise it's just pressure. Make sense? Several games this year (the WCE and Hawks games spring to mind) we were smashed at centre clearances and had far fewer initial i50 entries meaning our forward pressure stats are naturally skewed.

No, I don't think they invented zoning. However if you look at the defensive structures of each of the last four premiership teams, theay have each had very different game plans. Swans and WCE each employed a similar defensive flood. Geelong played a far less structured defensive zone and backed their individual defenders to win one-on-one (e.g. Scarlett, Egan, Taylor) or zone off (e.g. Milburn, Mackie) where required. Hawthorn employed a more extreme variation of the traditional zone with the "cluster". Collingwood has gone even further with the "forward press". All I am saying is that the next premier rarely (if ever) topples the incumbent using the same game plan. A modified variation maybe, but I hazard a guess that the premier won't be playing the forward press as we know it in three years time.

Ah, the old mis-quote the poster and hope he doesn't notice trick! I never said we had to stick with our current game plan, nor implied it. I merely suggested that we should be building a game pland for tomorrow, not today. I do not know what that is or should be but I would hope that the guys in charge have their eyes on the road ahead, not the current surroundings. Original? Yes, I would think that is a pre-requisite for success.

I trust this satisfies your curiosity.

1. It may have only been 3 forward entries, but how easily did they walk it out with zero pressure. No chance for repeat entry after repeat entry.

2. They refined a game plan based on modern trends in football, so not original.

3. No you just used a lot of words to say nothing. But appreciate the attempt.

In answer to the original question.... Not very far.

Backwards.

I've said this a number of times on these forums but the Bailey fanatics keep howling me down.

Forget about our young list or our poor with injuries of late. The big issue we have this year is forward pressure/zones.

We are ranked 2nd last in the league (only above Gold Coast) in forward pressure. Until this is fixed don't expect to be pushing up the ladder.

How did the pies win a flag last year?

Why have the bombers & eagles surged up the ladder?

Why are we struggling this year (even before the injuries)?

Forward pressure.

Well said, although I think our defensive zones or lack there of are just as bad. We also don't run hard enough forward, when we win the ball in the defensive 50. You only need to watch our hard Geelong run out of their back 50.

I couldn't think of a more transparent game plan than what we used tonight (which we've used as our only plan all year) - long kick to a pack on the half back flank, which if we don't mark (on a night like tonight we never were), we look to kill the ball out of bounds and reset. It's hopeless strategising. The only possible explanation for our lack of plan B all over the ground is that Bailey doesn't want us to be worked out by other teams before we're actually physically up to challenging for a flag. This is of course crazy talk.

It's not so much that we lose the game (we were never going to beat Carlton), it's how we went about it. Barely anyone gave a yelp and we played like we knew we'd loose. It's not just the forwards, it's tackling all over the ground. Pitiful.

Furthermore, the things that have let us down this year is poor decision making, coupled with poor skill execution. Of course it's most often the latter rather than merely a poor possession. Never centre the ball unless you're absolutely certain your team mate will take it. If you're ever going to break this rule, you've gotta make sure you execute the skill you were drafted for. If not you ought to be dragged.

How far have we come this year? Well, we still have Jones, Warnock and Newton on our list. Warnock can usually shut down your mongrel full forward, but with those types far less prevalent, he simply hasn't been up to it. Newton showed signs one or two seasons back that if he got his kicking right he could have been anything. Unfortunately, he seems to be getting less of the ball, consequently less shots on goal and not converting his opportunities. Perhaps it's the team being placed under pressure or perhaps it's his leading patterns, but he seems to find himself on 45 degree angles far more than he used too. As for Jones, well I cannot understand why he's still on our list and why people rave about him. Okay, so he wins the ball, but he hasn't a clue of his limitations. He constantly tries to take them on and 99% of the time gets caught and turns it over. If he's not turning it over being tackled, he's turning it over by foot.

I truly believe we've drafted a fantastic midfield. Even our second string midfield has done well the past three weeks without Jamar. Martin's ruck work has improved out of sight and Moloney, Gysberts, Sylvia and McKenzie seem to be working nicely together. They're not tackling quite enough, but are beating their team mates easily. Inject Scully, Trengove and even Davey in there and you've got a top midfield in a couple of years. Then there's Viney.

Where we fall down is a) our structures b ) our forwards' inability to lay tackles and keep the opposition pinned in our half and c) our lack of a tall target "get-out-of-jail" player that we can direct the ball too, so our crumbers can get to work. I originally thought that a medium sized, mobile forwardline would prove more difficult to match up on (and could still prove to be), but this season has so far shown me that we do in fact lack the mongrel to kick it on top of. Jamar, Fitzpatrick, Campbell and Gawn's absence of course delivers a fairly significant blow to our hope of a big bloke up forward, but the more I see us play, the more I think we are screaming out for a tall forward to take the pressure off Jurrah, Petterd and Watts.

Maybe finals was too much to expect from such a young team this year, but I certainly want us to improve on our record from last year. Moreover, I'd like to think we'd have sorted out all of our zonal problems by the end of the season. Then again, I was hoping that half way through last season.

Our forward entries...

*beats head against wall*

current form, we're only going to win 3 more games this year. hopefully Rush/Trenners/Skull back next week

1. It may have only been 3 forward entries, but how easily did they walk it out with zero pressure. No chance for repeat entry after repeat entry.

2. They refined a game plan based on modern trends in football, so not original.

3. No you just used a lot of words to say nothing. But appreciate the attempt.

1. I don't disagree completely, merely pointing out that each affects the other. Our midfield is nowhere near as good as you seem to think and we rarely get qualiy ball into the f50 in the first place. Fact.

2. The premiers are almost always at the forefront of modern trends and creating them, not copying others who are pioneering them first. Original.

3. Not my problem if your comprehension is a bit lacking.

Does the constant unwarranted criticism and unwillingness to stick by the club include your's and ADC's constant criticism and negativity of Scully's contract negotiations with the Mfc ?

i dont know about ADC but all iver ever said about that is that something stinks and i have the feeling he's going, if you have a brain in your head you will realise that is not even a criticism of anyone just an observation.. see if you can 'catch somebody else out' as it seems that is a hobby of yours on these boards, maybe try talking about footy?

That means you better drive on the left lane...

Really, the OP depends on 4 things:

- a perceived notion of what stage we were at last year.

- a perceived notion of what stage we are at now.

- a judgment call on how skewed this perception is by the injuries we have suffered.

- how much your memory has distorted the events of last season.

In the end, it's impossible to answer, but I think those saying we have "gone backwards" have actually grossly overestimated where we were at last year.

In addition to that, it would probably be only fair to judge this at the end of the season, since we had similar patches last year.

Really, the OP depends on 4 things:

- a perceived notion of what stage we were at last year.

- a perceived notion of what stage we are at now.

- a judgment call on how skewed this perception is by the injuries we have suffered.

- how much your memory has distorted the events of last season.

In the end, it's impossible to answer, but I think those saying we have "gone backwards" have actually grossly overestimated where we were at last year.

In addition to that, it would probably be only fair to judge this at the end of the season, since we had similar patches last year.

We're further behind, no doubt.

Whether it’s the rest of the competition moving forward while we stagnate is splitting hairs...

You probably need to listen to what Jarred Rivers said on radio over the weekend, alarming.

We have the worst defensive game in the league, numerous times you've mentioned how Bailey is working on a game plan to beat the zone - yet the cattle are too young or injured. Fantastic, but that's only HALF the game plan. You do understand the opposition get the ball too????? How do we win it back?

At the moment we don't win it back anywhere near often enough. Our structures are a mess. Not to mention what we have to kick to coming out of defence.

The fact you keep blatantly overlooking these issues is getting tiresome. Your blind defence of a coach who I think has done a fine job turning over a list but is now being found out defies belief.

That means you better drive on the left lane...

it graphically represents one step forward...two back.

Though it might have been over your head..

We have the worst defensive game in the league, numerous times you've mentioned how Bailey is working on a game plan to beat the zone - yet the cattle are too young or injured. Fantastic, but that's only HALF the game plan. You do understand the opposition get the ball too????? How do we win it back?

At the moment we don't win it back anywhere near often enough. Our structures are a mess. Not to mention what we have to kick to coming out of defence.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. The only problem is that the contested part of the game (i.e. winning the ball) is the part of the game where size differences are most critical. We only have a couple of genuine big-bodied midfielders and they are simply not as good as those at other clubs. Moloney and Sylvia are decent but Moloney in particular can go missing. Jones plays more outside for someone of his size. Unfortunately we will have to wait for the likes of Gysberts and Scully to physically mature.

Can't argue with the structures, although the FD have said this is not their main focus right now.

We're further behind, no doubt.

Whether it’s the rest of the competition moving forward while we stagnate is splitting hairs...

You probably need to listen to what Jarred Rivers said on radio over the weekend, alarming.

We have the worst defensive game in the league, numerous times you've mentioned how Bailey is working on a game plan to beat the zone - yet the cattle are too young or injured. Fantastic, but that's only HALF the game plan. You do understand the opposition get the ball too????? How do we win it back?

At the moment we don't win it back anywhere near often enough. Our structures are a mess. Not to mention what we have to kick to coming out of defence.

The fact you keep blatantly overlooking these issues is getting tiresome. Your blind defence of a coach who I think has done a fine job turning over a list but is now being found out defies belief.

Wooooosh!

That's the sound of my post going way over your head.

And I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth, let alone entire paragraphs, even if it is the only way you can appear to be winning an argument.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. The only problem is that the contested part of the game (i.e. winning the ball) is the part of the game where size differences are most critical.

Possibly. But wouldn't that mean a lot of missed tackles? ie tackles that don't stick. We're not even getting those because we set our defence way too deep. I'm not seeing many missed tackles at all in the forward 50, just opposition players strolling out looking for the perfect pass.

Can't argue with the structures, although the FD have said this is not their main focus right now.

4 years into his plan it should be.

Can't argue with the structures, although the FD have said this is not their main focus right now.

starting to sound like we need a new FD !!

seems like theyre trying to organise a fit-out before the building's in place.