For those against developing Martin as our back-up ruckman I ask you please to list the players that are ready to take the roll now. My current summary of our stocks is below.

1. Newton- No. Might be good forward, but is behind Martin in the ruck stocks.

2. Gawn- I wish he were ready, he is another year off at least so no for now.

3. Fitzpatrick- Had some early injury setbacks, and still has some development ahead so no for now.

4. Spencer- If not seriously injured maybe, but does not have Martin's engine. Spencer is also quite slow.

5. Campbell- Insurance policy. He will be given a go, so maybe a short term fix but certainly not reliable past 2012.

6. Cook- Can he even ruck? Maybe a future investment, but surely not worth playing as ruck now.

This puts Martin right behind Jamar right now. Like it or lump it, he is the best option we have so get on board and support him.

I reckon Martin has developed more quickly than Jamar. It took the Russian about 6 or 7 years to show he was AFL standard, admittedly held back by lack of opportunity(White and Jolly). Martin has more mobility that Jamar can ever hope to develop.

Edited May 16, 201114 yr by JUMPING JACK CLENNETT

Martin worked really hard and all credit to him but I don't think ruck is his position. Hitouts were ok but the 12-13 free kicks from ruck contests were extremely costly. We need a ruckman in the side as soon as possible.

Martin worked really hard and all credit to him but I don't think ruck is his position. Hitouts were ok but the 12-13 free kicks from ruck contests were extremely costly. We need a ruckman in the side as soon as possible.

12 - 13 is an exaggeration. Not to mention, more than half the ones that were given were baseless.

Martin is proving to be a really good second ruckman. The way he toiled by himself on the weekend was much better than we would have or could have expected. It should be commended.

12 - 13 is an exaggeration. Not to mention, more than half the ones that were given were baseless.

Martin is proving to be a really good second ruckman. The way he toiled by himself on the weekend was much better than we would have or could have expected. It should be commended.

I don't have that statistic available to me but Dean payed reference to it in his press conference when asked about Stef. He may have been exaggerating but not sure. Yep they were all the umpires fault, sure thing.

Pathetic comment from an idiot who doesn't understand the game.

Martin has been playing footy for something like 4 or 5 years only. He was a mature age recruit and in his short career has played down back, up forward and now in the ruck.

He was thrown into a first ruck role under extreme pressure and came up against a genuinely good ruckman and he held his own. He also won his fair share of clearances. He has 6 clearances to be exact, second highest in the team behind Gysberts who had 7 (Moloney had 5). He was also in the top 3 for tackling yesterday. That is despite hurting his ribs in the VFL last week and copping a knee injury during the game yesterday.

It disgusts me that people stick the boot in when a player clearly works extremely hard and tries his best, when so many of his teammates didn't even do that. Martin ran all day, with very little help, and you bemoan his lack of taps to advantage. Do you even know how hard it is to master that? It took Jamar 7 years! Martin has played about 7 games in the ruck at AFL level. FFS!

Yes I know how hard it is, I played in the ruck for 20 years, swapping into the forward line - the curse of the tall kid - What experience have you got?

Let's develop him for another 3 years just so we can be sure he's a spud.

Every time the footy goes through him, he hesitates. Throwing our structures out. I watch him get it on the wing hesitate, by then Jurrah, green, watts to have lead and doubled back taking away any advantage - not so much yesterday but in the first games this season definitely.

6 clearances does not impress me, it just goes to show how insipid the rest of the team contributed.

He didn't just not tap to advantage, he barely negated goldstein at all. We are a weaker team with him in it.

He'll get another game next week - against a ruck man that Roughhead didn't just negate - but won around the ground.

Lets see how he 'stands up' next week.

If he plays well i'll eat my hat, the question is when jamar is back and martin is back in the 2's - will you?

Yes I know how hard it is, I played in the ruck for 20 years, swapping into the forward line - the curse of the tall kid - What experience have you got?

Let's develop him for another 3 years just so we can be sure he's a spud.

Every time the footy goes through him, he hesitates. Throwing our structures out. I watch him get it on the wing hesitate, by then Jurrah, green, watts to have lead and doubled back taking away any advantage - not so much yesterday but in the first games this season definitely.

6 clearances does not impress me, it just goes to show how insipid the rest of the team contributed.

He didn't just not tap to advantage, he barely negated goldstein at all. We are a weaker team with him in it.

He'll get another game next week - against a ruck man that Roughhead didn't just negate - but won around the ground.

Lets see how he 'stands up' next week.

If he plays well i'll eat my hat, the question is when jamar is back and martin is back in the 2's - will you?

You've been pretty harsh on Martin. He was pretty much a forgotten player last year after a previous 12mths of coaches throwing him all over the place.

He's still got a way to go but I'm impressed with his year thus far and the improvements he has made. He might not be Kouta (although he did have a Kouta moment with the one hand on Saturday!) but if this was a first year player, then we'd be fairly happy right now. If this is to be his role as a footballer (the 2nd ruck) and you would think due to the nature of footy today he will continue to play that role, I think he has a great chance to be an important player for us. If he is the guy on the wing delivering to our forward line so often, my question would be, where the hell are our supposed runners if he is finding himself in the best spot so often? But I've not really noticed this to be fair.

As for Rougheahd, gee, he had to play a decent game at some point because his year has been worse than Stef Martin!!

Think that it being a bit harsh on him here, i dont know how many hit outs he got to advantage but i can tell you that "Naita" had 20 yesterday and not one went to advantage... according to the huns stats...

I thought he was great at ground level, much like how i see Naitanui Play... can retrieve the ball at ground level, got it in the center sqaure and was willing to RUN with it..... wanted to take the game on, unlike many

If you couldnt see he was actually having a crack yesterday then you never will, was he amazing no... but he rucked twice as much as ever before against a bigger more experienced opponent and really only lost 7 more hit outs than Goldy i think, the effectiveness may be alot different though, he may actually be alot better off for it, around the ground etc

He isnt going to be a number 1 but we all saw what happened to Jamar the first game he wasnt their, it was the straw that broke the camels back....

If he plays well i'll eat my hat, the question is when jamar is back and martin is back in the 2's - will you?

Jamar and Martin played all but one game together this season, and I reckon the only reason they dropped Martin 2 weeks ago was because Bate had a great game in the VFL and they wanted to reward him for good form, which threw out the balance of the side.

So I won't need to eat any hats, because both these guys can and will comfortably play in the same side.

Martin is not and will never be a first ruck, and judge him as one is stupid.

He did a good job under the circumstances and to get stuck into him because he didn't have enough taps to advantage is just pointless at this stage of his 7 game rucking career.

Yes I know how hard it is, I played in the ruck for 20 years, swapping into the forward line - the curse of the tall kid - What experience have you got?

Let's develop him for another 3 years just so we can be sure he's a spud.

Every time the footy goes through him, he hesitates. Throwing our structures out. I watch him get it on the wing hesitate, by then Jurrah, green, watts to have lead and doubled back taking away any advantage - not so much yesterday but in the first games this season definitely.

6 clearances does not impress me, it just goes to show how insipid the rest of the team contributed.

He didn't just not tap to advantage, he barely negated goldstein at all. We are a weaker team with him in it.

He'll get another game next week - against a ruck man that Roughhead didn't just negate - but won around the ground.

Lets see how he 'stands up' next week.

If he plays well i'll eat my hat, the question is when jamar is back and martin is back in the 2's - will you?

Someone once told me that, like Rowers, Ruckmen are a bit thick!I think this proves that my advisor was right.Apparently even retired 20 year ruckman have difficulties!

To have played the game he did, with damaged ribs, was remarkable.

he plainly lacks confidence at this stage having played in so many roles--incidentally, can anyone recall him playing badly as a tall defender, albeit rather defensively?

Give him a break for pete's sake!

Yes I know how hard it is, I played in the ruck for 20 years, swapping into the forward line - the curse of the tall kid - What experience have you got?

Let's develop him for another 3 years just so we can be sure he's a spud.

Every time the footy goes through him, he hesitates. Throwing our structures out. I watch him get it on the wing hesitate, by then Jurrah, green, watts to have lead and doubled back taking away any advantage - not so much yesterday but in the first games this season definitely.

6 clearances does not impress me, it just goes to show how insipid the rest of the team contributed.

He didn't just not tap to advantage, he barely negated goldstein at all. We are a weaker team with him in it.

He'll get another game next week - against a ruck man that Roughhead didn't just negate - but won around the ground.

Lets see how he 'stands up' next week.

If he plays well i'll eat my hat, the question is when jamar is back and martin is back in the 2's - will you?

You have the experience so I have to believe your right what you say.

I'll keep a watch to look and learn. To see what your saying. I've noticed a couple of seemingly knowledgeable postors have mentioned this since the weekend. But we still need someone to contest. Who is the best available to negate the opposition as the second ruck?

Edited May 16, 201114 yr by dee-luded

Stef was solid enough in the ruck. Did bits and pieces and was, for periods of time, competitive.

However the problem he had was playing defensively. To let Goldstein get free as much as he did, especially forward of the play, is really poor. It's something he really needs to work on.

As far as playing Gawn, he looks to be a really exciting prospect. However ..... having not played a lot of senior footy yet, it would be highly likely that he will get exposed quite badly in terms of the speed of the game. If he is to come on then it should be as a support player because it is likely that he could be uncompetitive at this age.

tricky one, he can surprise you but is often left looking like he doesn't belong out there

tricky one, he can surprise you but is often left looking like he doesn't belong out there

Jamar looked lost a few years ago.

And we are not asking Martin to do what Jamar does - we are asking him to give Jamar a breather now and then.

You have the experience so I have to believe your right what you say.

I'll keep a watch to look and learn. To see what your saying. I've noticed a couple of seemingly knowledgeable postors have mentioned this since the weekend. But we still need someone to contest. Who is the best available to negate the opposition as the second ruck?

Newton, to me, was a surprise packet. Make him accountable - he is fit and aggressive. Use him.