No no, I'm not about to kick the magpies, although most would prefer it. I'm concerned about our backline. Too many pie kickers. Or as the crows would say, pie floaters. Out of 100 how would you score the kicking ability of our back men. Mine for starters

Tappscott 98, Frawley 85, Rivers 55, Grimes 54, Garland 52, Bartram 35.

Combined with ability to run the ball out of the backline Frawley 90, Grimes 88, Tapscott 80, Rivers 55, Garland 54, Bartram 40.

As you can see I'm not happy with Rivers, Garland and Bartram as long term prospects.

Bartram can run but doesn't have the mind to do it with a ball in his hand.

Grimes has to much upside to be concerned but he needs to work on his kicking. I believe he will better once in the mid-field and running forward.

Out of 100 how would you score the kicking ability of our back men. Mine for starters

Tappscott 98, Frawley 85, Rivers 55, Grimes 54, Garland 52, Bartram 35.

Rated Tapscott way too high. Yes he seems like a fantastic kick, but he would need to play more games and show to be consistantly good at kicking before he would be rated that high,IMO.

Also, I would think that from Rivers down, the scores in the 50's would be too low.

Would probably rate along the lines of kicks hitting the target with the percentage being roughly the score.

Grimes stands out more, but he also kicks the ball maybe twice as much as most of the others. But if it is given as a percentage, then you might find his percentage is higher than most may think.

Can't say I've paid too much attention, but I don't notice Garland being as bad as you say.

No no, I'm not about to kick the magpies, although most would prefer it. I'm concerned about our backline. Too many pie kickers. Or as the crows would say, pie floaters. Out of 100 how would you score the kicking ability of our back men. Mine for starters

Tappscott 98, Frawley 85, Rivers 55, Grimes 54, Garland 52, Bartram 35.

Combined with ability to run the ball out of the backline Frawley 90, Grimes 88, Tapscott 80, Rivers 55, Garland 54, Bartram 40.

As you can see I'm not happy with Rivers, Garland and Bartram as long term prospects.

Bartram can run but doesn't have the mind to do it with a ball in his hand.

Grimes has to much upside to be concerned but he needs to work on his kicking. I believe he will better once in the mid-field and running forward.

The role of Rivers is not the one to be running it our of our defence or the designated kicker. He is an ideal 3rd tall

Bartram main goal is to keep the most dangerous small forward from the opposition quiet, then he can put his running shoes on, but his 1st priority must be a defensive mind

Garland - See Rivers. gets the 2nd best forward from the opposition and must stay focused on that task

You have been too harsh on these three and it just shows what a gem in Frawley we have

No no, I'm not about to kick the magpies, although most would prefer it. I'm concerned about our backline. Too many pie kickers. Or as the crows would say, pie floaters. Out of 100 how would you score the kicking ability of our back men. Mine for starters

Tappscott 98, Frawley 85, Rivers 55, Grimes 54, Garland 52, Bartram 35.

Combined with ability to run the ball out of the backline Frawley 90, Grimes 88, Tapscott 80, Rivers 55, Garland 54, Bartram 40.

As you can see I'm not happy with Rivers, Garland and Bartram as long term prospects.

Bartram can run but doesn't have the mind to do it with a ball in his hand.

Grimes has to much upside to be concerned but he needs to work on his kicking. I believe he will better once in the mid-field and running forward.

I'd like to think he'll improve his kicking, especially static kicking whilst he's still in defence, and it stands out. If he went into the 'Mids' now, he may gloss over his deficiency. I hope he works hard on the kicking and the decision making with the ball,,, this season.

I think he could be in the guts next year.

G - Games

K - Kicks

KTA - Kicks to advantage

KTDO - Kicks to direct opposition

make of it what you will

G - Games

K - Kicks

KTA - Kicks to advantage

KTDO - Kicks to direct opposition

make of it what you will

Nice stats , but with more urgency out of defence, those stats will change. We'll need players who can break out of defence and deliver in an attacking way, with precise kicks..

I feel comfotable Tappy will be fine, and Grimes on the run has hit targets laces out, in past years.

G - Games

K - Kicks

KTA - Kicks to advantage

KTDO - Kicks to direct opposition

make of it what you will

Intereting statistic, certainly better than disposal efficiency.

Once Grimes removes the dinky little kicks sideways and backwards he goes for all the time his KTDO will come down dramatically.

G - Games

K - Kicks

KTA - Kicks to advantage

KTDO - Kicks to direct opposition

make of it what you will

intersting stat. where did you get those stats from - reference ?

just goes to show Garland & Rivers stats puts harrison rules ratings to shame as far as kicking to opposition.

Edited April 20, 201114 yr by Grimes to Watts

G - Games

K - Kicks

KTA - Kicks to advantage

KTDO - Kicks to direct opposition

make of it what you will

These statistics include the dinky little 'pie floaters' when kicking sideways, backwards with no pressure. Grimes sometimes has missed his targets because his attacking style means he is mostly kicking under pressure. Rivers, Garland and Bartram are rarely running out of the backline, hence there kicking is generally in a safer environment.

The old adage, Statistics can lie and liars use statistics

garland is easily our 2nd best kick in our back 6, far better kick than frawley

this doesn't count all the kicks that Grimes never actually gets on to his boot for being so goddamn slow to wind up.

He won't ever play midfield in my opinion, for this reason...and he's not a super quick decision maker or clever thinker in tight.

I think you've underated Garland's kicking, I definitely have him up there with Frawley but at around 70... and Rivers is better than we think with his kicks... Those 3 are pretty similar...

They'll all look like better kicks, particularly Grimes, when the bloody midfield makes a lead. From when Davey waved the team to slow down 5 minutes before the end of the first half against the Hawks, we've been sucking badly in this regard.

:D

The old adage, Statistics can lie and liars use statistics

Hence your opening post and your ratings.

The role of Rivers is not the one to be running it our of our defence or the designated kicker. He is an ideal 3rd tall

Its great that the ideal 3rd tall does not have to be mobile or be a reliable kick.

These statistics include the dinky little 'pie floaters' when kicking sideways, backwards with no pressure. Grimes sometimes has missed his targets because his attacking style means he is mostly kicking under pressure. Rivers, Garland and Bartram are rarely running out of the backline, hence there kicking is generally in a safer environment.

The old adage, Statistics can lie and liars use statistics

I've never seen Grimes kick a pie floater (that floats through the air), I've seen some inaccurate and those that have fallen short, but never a floater.

As for the stats and Tricky, are you referring to Tricky as a liar ? You can't back that up.

Hence your opening post and your ratings.

Its great that the ideal 3rd tall does not have to be mobile or be a reliable kick.

It's also great that our so-called reliable kicks don't have the attributes to be the 3rd tall. As for the 3rd tall pigeon holed term, I think Rivers has been more than that of late, and has outshone the other defenders in 2011 and led the way. It follows his consistently good '10 season as well.

It's a far cry from those here who had him being delisted at the end of '09. I'm sure those won't own up either. But the pleasing thing for me is, they know who they are !

No no, I'm not about to kick the magpies, although most would prefer it. I'm concerned about our backline. Too many pie kickers. Or as the crows would say, pie floaters. Out of 100 how would you score the kicking ability of our back men. Mine for starters

Tappscott 98, Frawley 85, Rivers 55, Grimes 54, Garland 52, Bartram 35.

Combined with ability to run the ball out of the backline Frawley 90, Grimes 88, Tapscott 80, Rivers 55, Garland 54, Bartram 40.

Are you making a computer game or something?

It's a far cry from those here who had him being delisted at the end of '09. I'm sure those won't own up either. But the pleasing thing for me is, they know who they are !

Did they? I'll put my hand up and say I would have traded him. I am not sure he is core atm.

But as for Moloney, neither Brisbane or Gold Coast are bellwethers of performance this year.

Did they? I'll put my hand up and say I would have traded him. I am not sure he is core atm.

Yes some did, especially when Joel Mac was picked up !

Does he have to be considered 'core' (separate topic, not sure where you are heading with this as I didn't refer to anything regarding 'core') ?

Would you still trade him now ?

But as for Moloney, neither Brisbane or Gold Coast are bellwethers of performance this year.

Sydney ?

It's also great that our so-called reliable kicks don't have the attributes to be the 3rd tall. As for the 3rd tall pigeon holed term, I think Rivers has been more than that of late, and has outshone the other defenders in 2011 and led the way. It follows his consistently good '10 season as well.

It's a far cry from those here who had him being delisted at the end of '09. I'm sure those won't own up either. But the pleasing thing for me is, they know who they are !

I wouldn't have said we should delist Rivers, but I'm not convinced he's going to be in our best side when we're any good. He's been good so far but we'll see how he goes.

Would you still trade him now ?

I would. That doesn't say much though, because there aren't many players who are untouchable. It's more a matter of how much I'd need to trade him and I don't know that we'd get enough to move him on.

That said, I'm not taking into account anything that's not on-field, so he might get brownie points for other stuff.

this doesn't count all the kicks that Grimes never actually gets on to his boot for being so goddamn slow to wind up.

He won't ever play midfield in my opinion, for this reason...and he's not a super quick decision maker or clever thinker in tight.

I think you've underated Garland's kicking, I definitely have him up there with Frawley but at around 70... and Rivers is better than we think with his kicks... Those 3 are pretty similar...

A better game plan would fix it up. Tappscott kicks to opposition occured in the hawthron game when all he had to kick to was a wall.

Yes some did, especially when Joel Mac was picked up !

Does he have to be considered 'core' (separate topic, not sure where you are heading with this as I didn't refer to anything regarding 'core') ?

Would you still trade him now ?

Sydney ?

Really. I cant recall thst. Delisting would be plain dunb. I still dont think Rivers is a criticsl hold and if the right deal came up I would trade him.

As for Sydney, that's one game and as I recall MFC players were hot and cold that day. At this stage there has not been a decent test of the MFC to see where it and its players are at. The Hawks have shown we are not top 4 and the Qld teams have shown we are probably not bottom 4.

Really. I cant recall thst. Delisting would be plain dunb.

Agreed.

I can't see why anyone would have wanted to delist him and can't recall anyone wanting to do so.

As for him, I still wouldn't be against a trade if a good one came up.