On 14/04/2011 at 00:00, Kojak said:

I think Stef Martin is the prime example on how long it takes to fully transition from being a basketballer to Footballer.

He and Jack have a lot in common.

Similar backgrounds - both in Basketball. Both big guys and late starters to football

Martin has had the potential for many years and now finally we are seeing great signs from him.

Martin now has a muscular strong fit body and its doing wonders to the way he plays. Showing so much confidence in his marking and great composure as well. He gains confidence and feeds of the knowledge that he has a strong body. It’s that simple.

Jack Watts is in the same boat and he will get there.

Martin played no organised football at all until he was 19. Watts played all through his junior years, including being in elite programs at Sandringham Dragons in the TAC cup and Vic metro. The amount he played at a junior level gets understated to suit the argument. When drafted, these boards were full of posts about how Melbourne drafted a footballer who can play the game in Watts, unlike Naitanui who was an athlete but hadn't played the game enough.

  On 14/04/2011 at 00:27, Thomo said:

Martin played no organised football at all until he was 19. Watts played all through his junior years, including being in elite programs at Sandringham Dragons in the TAC cup and Vic metro. The amount he played at a junior level gets understated to suit the argument. When drafted, these boards were full of posts about how Melbourne drafted a footballer who can play the game in Watts, unlike Naitanui who was an athlete but hadn't played the game enough.

great post Thommo

As i said earlier, its convenient to use his basketball history as an excuse for where he is now, but when we drafted him im sure BP & the FD would have saw it as an upside to his footy skills (additional agility & evasiveness skills), not a hindrance which people now conveniently say that it is

  On 14/04/2011 at 00:00, Kojak said:

I think Stef Martin is the prime example on how long it takes to fully transition from being a basketballer to Footballer.

He and Jack have a lot in common.

Similar backgrounds - both in Basketball. Both big guys and late starters to football

Martin has had the potential for many years and now finally we are seeing great signs from him.

Martin now has a muscular strong fit body and its doing wonders to the way he plays. Showing so much confidence in his marking and great composure as well. He gains confidence and feeds of the knowledge that he has a strong body. It’s that simple.

Jack Watts is in the same boat and he will get there.

bad bad correlation Kojak

Jack has a cupboard full of football trophies dating back to primary school

  On 13/04/2011 at 23:48, Deemolition said:

This issue of not "trusting" Jack has just sprung up out of nowhere. I doubt that a single one of us has a clue what Jack's teammates think of him, other than they'd hopefully all be aware that at this stage he remains a key ingredient for our future success.

I picked it up from an article by Gary Lyon about AFL teams having their own VFL side. Here.

  Quote

That (Simon) Buckley so effortlessly filled the hole created by the injuries to Nathan Brown and Nick Maxwell is further testament to the ''one club, two team'' policy. His complete understanding of the team rules and structures enabled him to slot in without missing a beat. It was clear that the rest of the team had total faith in his ability to play his role and demonstrated that trust by sharing and giving him the ball to execute when required.

(The emphasis is mine.)

I have suggested that perhaps MFC players don't have faith in Watts. Just suggested, mind.

Ed: expanded the emphasis

  On 14/04/2011 at 00:47, Mono said:

I picked it up from an article by Gary Lyon about AFL teams having their own VFL side. Here.

(The emphasis is mine.)

I have suggested that perhaps MFC players don't have faith in Watts. Just suggested, mind.

Ed: expanded the emphasis

I don't believe that the players are deliberately ignoring Watts. I actually don't think that they are capable of ignoring him.

Our midfield is not good enough or has enough time to repeatable recognise over the past three years which player is in space, and make a decision as to whether they trust or like him enough to kick him the ball. The more likely reason is Watts is not moving to the right space. Jurrah, Green, Wonna, Dunn, even Maric, don't have the same problem with delivery. Watts either does not understand where he is supposed to be, can’t read the play, is being told the wrong things, or does not want to get to the contest. I believe he is struggling to read the play.

I believe that the club has so far handled Watt's development poorly. Watts missed out on an important step - learning to play senior football against men in the VFL. In a marketing stunt, he was thrown into the top level before he was ready, and since then it appears that the club is not willing to own up to the mistake, so they are leaving him in the side where he is out of his depth. It would be much better for him to go back to the VFL and learn the game, rather than struggling in the seniors and getting dragged. It can't be doing his football education or confidence any good getting half a dozen touches and looking lost.

  On 13/04/2011 at 10:35, sylvinator said:

So your only indicator of performance for a 20 year old KP forward playing on guys bigger than him, stronger than him and more experienced than him is contested marks.

Very very silly post

I'm glad you have nothing to do with decision making in our club.

He's a 196cm and weighs 92kg, he's hardly smaller than everyone else.

I advocate playing him every week. I would just like the players to kick it too him

  On 14/04/2011 at 01:35, Thomo said:

I don't believe that the players are deliberately ignoring Watts. I actually don't think that they are capable of ignoring him.

Our midfield is not good enough or has enough time to repeatable recognise over the past three years which player is in space, and make a decision as to whether they trust or like him enough to kick him the ball. The more likely reason is Watts is not moving to the right space. Jurrah, Green, Wonna, Dunn, even Maric, don't have the same problem with delivery. Watts either does not understand where he is supposed to be, can’t read the play, is being told the wrong things, or does not want to get to the contest. I believe he is struggling to read the play.

I believe that the club has so far handled Watt's development poorly. Watts missed out on an important step - learning to play senior football against men in the VFL. In a marketing stunt, he was thrown into the top level before he was ready, and since then it appears that the club is not willing to own up to the mistake, so they are leaving him in the side where he is out of his depth. It would be much better for him to go back to the VFL and learn the game, rather than struggling in the seniors and getting dragged. It can't be doing his football education or confidence any good getting half a dozen touches and looking lost.

I disagree. Watts has shown the ability to play at VFL level and his stats at AFL level aren't as bad as people on here make out. Interestingly, he averages more disposals, marks and goals per game over their careers than Bennell who's place in the side is rarely questioned. He also gets more of the ball than Wonna, albeit kicks fewer goals per game at this stage.

I watched Watts closely last week repeatedly make good leads to dangerous spots that were ignored in favour of poorer options. I don't think his teammates deliberately ignore him, but I think if people had honoured him a bit more last week we would not be having this discussion.

  On 14/04/2011 at 02:07, Deemolition said:

I disagree. Watts has shown the ability to play at VFL level and his stats at AFL level aren't as bad as people on here make out. Interestingly, he averages more disposals, marks and goals per game over their careers than Bennell who's place in the side is rarely questioned. He also gets more of the ball than Wonna, albeit kicks fewer goals per game at this stage.

I watched Watts closely last week repeatedly make good leads to dangerous spots that were ignored in favour of poorer options. I don't think his teammates deliberately ignore him, but I think if people had honoured him a bit more last week we would not be having this discussion.

Seems to be a common theme that his leads are not being honoured. I think that it is becase he is not reading the play and needs time to learn the game at Casey. What's your take on the reason, bad luck or something else?

I hope they play Jack this week againt a team whom some will argue are largely made up of his peers or in some cases are even younger. This sort of outing shouldn't do him any harm at all and may let us know a bit more about where he is at.

  On 14/04/2011 at 02:06, Roost It said:

He's a 196cm and weighs 92kg, he's hardly smaller than everyone else.

I advocate playing him every week. I would just like the players to kick it too him

Exactly, I don't get this attitude everone sells 'he's a KPP they take longer' why is that? Scully had impact from day dot as the smallest bloke on the ground, how does being a big bloke excuse you from having any impact? It would mean something if he took the opposition's number 1 gorilla and wrestled him in the goalsquare, but he's not doing that, he's floating all over the place and his size should be giving him an advantage over most opponents out there, not gving him an excuse for spuddery

  On 14/04/2011 at 04:02, Curry & Beer said:

Exactly, I don't get this attitude everone sells 'he's a KPP they take longer' why is that? Scully had impact from day dot as the smallest bloke on the ground, how does being a big bloke excuse you from having any impact? It would mean something if he took the opposition's number 1 gorilla and wrestled him in the goalsquare, but he's not doing that, he's floating all over the place and his size should be giving him an advantage over most opponents out there, not gving him an excuse for spuddery

'Checker' Hughes used to say give a bloke a extra year for every inch of over 6 foot.

While median height has changed since the 30s, the notion still applies.

Talls take longer.

  On 14/04/2011 at 06:12, rpfc said:

'Checker' Hughes used to say give a bloke a extra year for every inch of over 6 foot.

While median height has changed since the 30s, the notion still applies.

Talls take longer.

Based on the mathematics.....

196cm = ~ 6"5'

1 inch = 25.4mm

6 foot = 1.83m 0r 183cm

another 13cm = ~5' (inches +)

Therefore by Checker's reckoning we should give him 5 years (and one month). 2013.

FMD a checker Hughes anecdote, how'd you get the dust off that one!?

all just lame excuses, I've had enough

if we get our acts together and dominate the suns this week we will see if can take the opportunity to benefit from it

time to perform Watts!

  On 14/04/2011 at 02:37, Thomo said:

Seems to be a common theme that his leads are not being honoured. I think that it is becase he is not reading the play and needs time to learn the game at Casey. What's your take on the reason, bad luck or something else?

I think there is a noticeable difference between how he's moving this year to last year. Last year he repeatedly ran to the wrong spots and blew up a number of times pretty early in games. I am not seeing that this year.

I think he is being hurt firstly by the fact that, aside from three quarters so far this year, the team has been quite stagnant as we move the ball forward. If nobody is moving, it doesn't create a lot of space for guys like Watts to lead into. Interestingly, he isn't being overshadowed by any of our other forwards (Jurrah and Green included) in terms of marks this year either which suggests the problem isn't isolated to him. I tend to think the frequency of delivery and the quality of decision making by the mids has been abysmal for the most part and the whole forward set-up is suffering.

I also think he is not being helped by playing so far up the ground. He has barely played a minute as the focal target forward and I don't understand why they wouldn't give him some time in that role. I would love to see aforward fifty of Jurrah, Watts and Aussie isolated and see what he can do in those circumstances.

I may be wrong on both counts but they're my observations.

  On 14/04/2011 at 06:35, Curry & Beer said:

FMD a checker Hughes anecdote, how'd you get the dust off that one!?

How many flags have you won?

  On 14/04/2011 at 06:35, Curry & Beer said:

FMD a checker Hughes anecdote, how'd you get the dust off that one!?

all just lame excuses, I've had enough

if we get our acts together and dominate the suns this week we will see if can take the opportunity to benefit from it

time to perform Watts!

We'd still be named after a flower if it wasn't for that useless old spud...

You're being needlessly dismissive again, C&B. Should look into that.