C & B- Last year he wasn't jumping anywhere near it. Already we see in this pre-season he is jumping into packs and last week i counted at least three times where he went up in the pack and got hands to it but didn't hold it. Don't put the blinkers on, he has developed from last year and will continue to do so.

Melbourne actually have one of the most efficient, even one of the most potent forward lines in the AFL when you look at how many inside 50's they have compared to goals scored. Melbourne has a great scoring efficiency but the forwards are all too often starved of opportunity.

35 inside 50's against Essendon was a perfect example. Given that of those 35, a good third of them were also delivered very poorly, that is a total of just 25 times or so our forwards have an opportunity inside 50 for the WHOLE game. That is the most damning stat. I would hate to be an MFC forward the last couple of years.

Buddy & Roughy see the ball at on average around 50-60 times a game. Dawes, Hall, Reiwoldt, Hawkins all see it in similar proportions.

Watts hasn't set the world on fire. But he doesn't see much of the ball delivered to him or his forward mates in anywhere near the proportions or quality of the opposition. Until Melbourne put it in there a hell of a lot more then many times our forward line will look second rate.

That is revisionist rubbish.

Bate has had two top 4 finishes in the Bluey.

But because he had a poor 2010 he gets less credit than Dunn who has played half a decent season in his career.

Fans with short memories...

very good point.

Im waiting to see if dunn can back up this year

As for Bate, the guy can play a role for us for sure. i wouldnt be suprised if he gets picked on a "horses for courses" basis against the bigger bodied teams

Yeah, except for Jurrah, we suck.

But i'll never accept anything less than 12 wins this year!

Not with this draw!!

Arrgghh!

C & B- Last year he wasn't jumping anywhere near it. Already we see in this pre-season he is jumping into packs and last week i counted at least three times where he went up in the pack and got hands to it but didn't hold it. Don't put the blinkers on, he has developed from last year and will continue to do so.

Melbourne actually have one of the most efficient, even one of the most potent forward lines in the AFL when you look at how many inside 50's they have compared to goals scored. Melbourne has a great scoring efficiency but the forwards are all too often starved of opportunity.

35 inside 50's against Essendon was a perfect example. Given that of those 35, a good third of them were also delivered very poorly, that is a total of just 25 times or so our forwards have an opportunity inside 50 for the WHOLE game. That is the most damning stat. I would hate to be an MFC forward the last couple of years.

Buddy & Roughy see the ball at on average around 50-60 times a game. Dawes, Hall, Reiwoldt, Hawkins all see it in similar proportions.

Watts hasn't set the world on fire. But he doesn't see much of the ball delivered to him or his forward mates in anywhere near the proportions or quality of the opposition. Until Melbourne put it in there a hell of a lot more then many times our forward line will look second rate.

That's all well and good but it's the likes of Green, Jurrah, Dunn, Petterd that create most of them, not Jack Watts. I must have blinkers on because I missed what you saw last week, I just saw a bloke continually be in the wrong spots and be allergic to the football. Needs to lift big time.

C & B- Last year he wasn't jumping anywhere near it. Already we see in this pre-season he is jumping into packs and last week i counted at least three times where he went up in the pack and got hands to it but didn't hold it. Don't put the blinkers on, he has developed from last year and will continue to do so.

Melbourne actually have one of the most efficient, even one of the most potent forward lines in the AFL when you look at how many inside 50's they have compared to goals scored. Melbourne has a great scoring efficiency but the forwards are all too often starved of opportunity.

35 inside 50's against Essendon was a perfect example. Given that of those 35, a good third of them were also delivered very poorly, that is a total of just 25 times or so our forwards have an opportunity inside 50 for the WHOLE game. That is the most damning stat. I would hate to be an MFC forward the last couple of years.

Buddy & Roughy see the ball at on average around 50-60 times a game. Dawes, Hall, Reiwoldt, Hawkins all see it in similar proportions.

Watts hasn't set the world on fire. But he doesn't see much of the ball delivered to him or his forward mates in anywhere near the proportions or quality of the opposition. Until Melbourne put it in there a hell of a lot more then many times our forward line will look second rate.

Spot on. According to the stats our forward line was much more productive than Essendon's in that game.

And against Adeliade Stef Martin and Watts were outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 on most occassions in the forward 50 because the delivery was so roughshod, Moloney and Jones roosting 60 metres rainmakers in there.

Watts will play round 1.

There is no way in hell Watts deserves to be in our 22 based on what he has produced thus far in his career. Absolutely no chance. The last 2 weeks he was awful, enbarassing even. However, we are investing in him so it's important he stays in the side and that's just the way it is. He had better start proudicing something soon though.

agree with alot of the sentiment, but you've gone overboard IMO

Everyone knows he needs to start showing the goods. Being "promising" isnt going to cut it and i'd say Jack knows that more than most. We just drafted a heap of talls so theres no doubt Watts, Bate, Petterd, Dunn & Martin will all be keen to show their worth this year when they get a chance.

Players like Warnock or Bate might not be in our best 18, but it only takes a couple of injuries and they'll be donning the red & blue and playing for the club. As supporters we should try to avoid bagging any player on our list

Melbourne statisticss v Brisbane Lions

26 disposals - Brent Moloney

22 - Nathan Jones

19 - Rohan Bail

18 - Neville Jetta

16 - Michael Evans

15 - Mark Jamar

14 - Colin Sylvia

14 - Luke Tapscott

13 - Lynden Dunn

13 - Daniel Nicholson

12 - Matthew Warnock

12 - Ricky Petterd

12 - Jared Rivers

12 - Joel Macdonald

12 - Tom Scully

9 - Stef Martin

9 - Jordan Gysberts

9 - Jeremy Howe

8 - Matthew Bate

8 - Jamie Bennell

8 - Tom McDonald

7 - Addam Maric

7 - James Strauss

4 - Jack Watts

3 - Lucas Cook

2 - Jake Spencer

Playing predominately as a high half forward (and on the ground for much of the match) and only having four possesions is not good enough, practice match or no practice match. People have sunk the boots into Bate and Martin (with some justification) but they had 8 & 9 possessions respectively. Petterd had 12, Dunn 13, Howe had 9 and Lucas Cook who was only on the ground for 20 mins almost had as many as Watts.

If the club has put Watts on notice then well played i reckon.

Playing predominately as a high half forward (and on the ground for much of the match) and only having four possesions is not good enough, practice match or no practice match. People have sunk the boots into Bate and Martin (with some justification) but they had 8 & 9 possessions respectively. Petterd had 12, Dunn 13, Howe had 9 and Lucas Cook who was only on the ground for 20 mins almost had as many as Watts.

If the club has put Watts on notice then well played i reckon.

2 of those 4 possessions were free kicks too! so that's 2 other possessions in what 70+ minutes of footy? and how many simple marks did he drop? I remember one uncontested one that someone bulleted to him 45 out from goal in front

He's just like Morton, the day he was recruited at the pointy end of the draft most supporters immediately commenced fantasies of this champion player holding the cup aloft. Ever since they have defended them to the death regardless of what they have or haven't shown on the football field. It's a type of denial. Tom Scully (and to a lesser extent Trengove) has produced what you hope for in elite draft picks - the other two have not, simple as that. They are both tremendously gifted from an athletic POV but both have question marks over their application

It needs to be a little less 'patience, give them time to develop' and a little more 'FCS HTFU or GTFO!' I think Bailey is more inclined to the latter philosophy at least i hope he is

A contributing factor to Watts lack of possessions is that he is consistently ignored by other players...

On numerous times against Brisbane he was clearly free and the player with the ball opted to either kick back into traffic or find another target.... A clear example of this is when Jack was free on the fat side of the ground coming out of defense and the player with the ball looked at him turned back into traffic and kicked down the line causing a turnover and subsequent goal to the lions....

You need to be able to get the cheap kicks to build your confidence but his team mates at times are not helping out...

A contributing factor to Watts lack of possessions is that he is consistently ignored by other players...

On numerous times against Brisbane he was clearly free and the player with the ball opted to either kick back into traffic or find another target.... A clear example of this is when Jack was free on the fat side of the ground coming out of defense and the player with the ball looked at him turned back into traffic and kicked down the line causing a turnover and subsequent goal to the lions....

You need to be able to get the cheap kicks to build your confidence but his team mates at times are not helping out...

I did not get to the Brisbane game funnily enough I was in Brisbane however if what you say is correct ( I am not doubting your word )

It points to a bigger problem than his ability.

Why are players intentionally ignoring him?

- They have poor vision

- They do not expect he will win the ball or trust him to use it properly

or the worst one of all They do not play to him because he is "Jack Watts" No 1 Draftee who gets to much attention.

I have seen this last one before and it can destroy players and team results.

The old attitude of " if he is so good let him go and get the ball himself"

or " why should I make him look good he gets paid twice as much as me for half the result.

I seriously doubt it is the last option but who knows why he is ignored.

I just hope you are wrong but I have seen it a few times last year.

The whole club has had an average pre-season. I liked what I saw of Watts in the first round against Port and Adelaide. I do want to see him lift of course, so the suggestions here that he needs to show more are warranted. I would be waiting until the end of the year though before any conclusions are made. If his form at the end of the season has shifted little from current form, then I would be a bit concerned.

Midfield players are always quicker so show their worth as well, so I wouldn't be comparing Watts to Scully/Trengrove. Watts is still a better choice ahead of Nick Nat at the momemt simply based on the fact that Nick Nat needs more surgery (again, he is young and a KPP so needs time).

I did not get to the Brisbane game funnily enough I was in Brisbane however if what you say is correct ( I am not doubting your word )

It points to a bigger problem than his ability.

Why are players intentionally ignoring him?

- They have poor vision

- They do not expect he will win the ball or trust him to use it properly

or the worst one of all They do not play to him because he is "Jack Watts" No 1 Draftee who gets to much attention.

I have seen this last one before and it can destroy players and team results.

The old attitude of " if he is so good let him go and get the ball himself"

or " why should I make him look good he gets paid twice as much as me for half the result.

I seriously doubt it is the last option but who knows why he is ignored.

I just hope you are wrong but I have seen it a few times last year.

Jeez, don't read that much into the kicking of our mids.

We don't get it forward enough, and we don't kick to the advantage of our forwards.

So good luck to a 19 year old 196cm CHF...

And yeah, I mentioned his age, at some point it won't be relevant, maybe when he isn't so fracking young...

Surely not! Yeah, Watts was horrible against Essendon, last week however V Brisbane I thought he worked really hard around the ground.

Watts would be in the first 10 players id pick to play each week. He is at that stage now (his third season) where he has the chance to blossom, especially after playing some great games last year and keeping him out of our side well do absolutely nothing to help us. Watts is a player who doesn't need a lot of the footy to have an impact, and when he does get a lot of it he usually uses it well. It's just his decision making he needs to improve.

Melbourne statisticss v Brisbane Lions

26 disposals - Brent Moloney

22 - Nathan Jones

19 - Rohan Bail

18 - Neville Jetta

16 - Michael Evans

15 - Mark Jamar

14 - Colin Sylvia

14 - Luke Tapscott

13 - Lynden Dunn

13 - Daniel Nicholson

12 - Matthew Warnock

12 - Ricky Petterd

12 - Jared Rivers

12 - Joel Macdonald

12 - Tom Scully

9 - Stef Martin

9 - Jordan Gysberts

9 - Jeremy Howe

8 - Matthew Bate

8 - Jamie Bennell

8 - Tom McDonald

7 - Addam Maric

7 - James Strauss

4 - Jack Watts

3 - Lucas Cook

2 - Jake Spencer

Playing predominately as a high half forward (and on the ground for much of the match) and only having four possesions is not good enough, practice match or no practice match. People have sunk the boots into Bate and Martin (with some justification) but they had 8 & 9 possessions respectively. Petterd had 12, Dunn 13, Howe had 9 and Lucas Cook who was only on the ground for 20 mins almost had as many as Watts.

If the club has put Watts on notice then well played i reckon.

About 5 of Martin's 9 possessions were hacks off the group, attempting to kick miraculous goals. Possessions aren't everything, either. Also, where did you get this information?

2 of those 4 possessions were free kicks too! so that's 2 other possessions in what 70+ minutes of footy? and how many simple marks did he drop? I remember one uncontested one that someone bulleted to him 45 out from goal in front

He's just like Morton, the day he was recruited at the pointy end of the draft most supporters immediately commenced fantasies of this champion player holding the cup aloft. Ever since they have defended them to the death regardless of what they have or haven't shown on the football field. It's a type of denial. Tom Scully (and to a lesser extent Trengove) has produced what you hope for in elite draft picks - the other two have not, simple as that. They are both tremendously gifted from an athletic POV but both have question marks over their application

It needs to be a little less 'patience, give them time to develop' and a little more 'FCS HTFU or GTFO!' I think Bailey is more inclined to the latter philosophy at least i hope he is

I saw a potential CHF that would take years to develop.

Others saw a potential CHF that would take a season and some harsh words to develop.

And some think that a failure to be a consistently good forward in a mid-range team, with sparse and at times awful delivery, at the age of 19 is tacit approval for venom. Those people have failed to develop.

Jeez, don't read that much into the kicking of our mids.

We don't get it forward enough, and we don't kick to the advantage of our forwards.

So good luck to a 19 year old 196cm CHF...

And yeah, I mentioned his age, at some point it won't be relevant, maybe when he isn't so fracking young...

Leaving aside the fact fact that some footballers make poor decisions in the space of a split second

Why would you ignore Watts to go to a contest? it is not as though he cannot mark or kick well and he covers ground quickly.

Why ignore him?

Why bring up his age?

Do you thing the guy with the ball thinks oh he is only 19 I will kick it to him when is 22!

Midfield players are always quicker so show their worth as well, so I wouldn't be comparing Watts to Scully/Trengrove. Watts is still a better choice ahead of Nick Nat at the momemt simply based on the fact that Nick Nat needs more surgery (again, he is young and a KPP so needs time).

Christ i'm sick of that tune too. Someone said it on a footy forum a few years ago and ever since it is a golden ticket for a player to have zero impact and produce absolutely nothing, why? because he is above a certain height. What sort of garbage is that? He isn't even PLAYING KPP he floats around like flanker or even a winger up the ground, where his height and athleticism should give him an EDGE over nearly everyone else! It shouldn't be his excuse to underproduce! If you must, compare him to James Frawley then, he got an AA cap in his 4th year of football, how far is Watts from that?

I don't want to be too harsh on him but I am sick of this soft attitude Melbourne supporters have that they just put up with substandard players and have them hang around the club for years waiting for them to get better. We need more mongrel at this club and the first blokes it should be directed at are the underperforming-but-supposedly-elite like Watts and Morton. If Bailey is putting pressure on them good on him I say

Leaving aside the fact fact that some footballers make poor decisions in the space of a split second

Why would you ignore Watts to go to a contest? it is not as though he cannot mark or kick well and he covers ground quickly.

Why ignore him?

Why bring up his age?

Do you thing the guy with the ball thinks oh he is only 19 I will kick it to him when is 22!

I don't think they are questions worth worrying about.

Mids look for options first and foremost - they may pick the wrong one, then they may not have the skill to execute, then they might hesitate on the right option leaving them no good options.

I am not going along with this 'ignoring' argument, and I lay the blame for our poor NAB Cup results of the last two weeks at the feet of our mids.

Jeez, don't read that much into the kicking of our mids.

We don't get it forward enough, and we don't kick to the advantage of our forwards.

So good luck to a 19 year old 196cm CHF...

And yeah, I mentioned his age, at some point it won't be relevant, maybe when he isn't so fracking young...

Ah isn't it great to have thread about Jack again, rather than the TSS!

His age may be relevant in terms of his ability to take marks, hold his ground in marking contests etc etc but his age is completely irrelevant to the issue of intensity at the ball and man. To be clear my view is Jack has the talent to be a top player, but (and it is a big but) at the moment he doesn't go in hard enough. I reiterate that Tom Scully is as young, much smaller in frame (probably what 12 kgs lighter?) and is ferocious in his attack on the ball. What's stopping Jack following suit - certainly not his age.

Ah isn't it great to have thread about Jack again, rather than the TSS!

His age may be relevant in terms of his ability to take marks, hold his ground in marking contests etc etc but his age is completely irrelevant to the issue of intensity at the ball and man. To be clear my view is Jack has the talent to be a top player, but (and it is a big but) at the moment he doesn't go in hard enough. I reiterate that Tome Scully is as young, much smaller in frame (probably what 12 kgs lighter?) and is ferocious in his attack on the ball. What's stopping Jack following suit - certainly not his age.

Some very good players are not physical I think JW is one of those types.

If he is to be a good player he will be a lead up player who kicks goals or takes good marks

and transfers the ball on well to a player in a position to score.

By 19 I think you have shown your desire to win the ball at all costs you either have it or you don't.

That does mean he will not be a good player it means don't expect him to win the hard ball

Or burst open a pack.

IMO it will not happen no matter how much bigger he gets.

I don't think they are questions worth worrying about.

Mids look for options first and foremost - they may pick the wrong one, then they may not have the skill to execute, then they might hesitate on the right option leaving them no good options.

I am not going along with this 'ignoring' argument, and I lay the blame for our poor NAB Cup results of the last two weeks at the feet of our mids.

So the reason JW has had poor games is the fault of the Mids!

I am sure Bate will be happy to hear that and is no doubt telling Bailey " boss i would have kicked 6 if the mids did not ignore me.

They kept kicking it over my head!

I will admit They have not been great

however if it is all the fault of the mids then JW,MB and I have another ordinary year ahead in 2011.

If you must, compare him to James Frawley then, he got an AA cap in his 4th year of football, how far is Watts from that?

Good comparison - James Frawley was causing massive concern to some on this very site until mid way through his 3rd season when he started to show something.

Jack Watt's is one year younger in terms of when he started as compared to Frawley (Frawley 18 Watts 17) and Watt's first season was a non event with no preseason and school commitments.

So yes - Frawley is a very good comparison to make - you should be comparing Watts now to season two Frawley ( go back and read posts about season two Frawley !)

This is one of the dumbest threads I have read on here. Lets leave out the here-say. I would be willing to bet $100 that Jack Watts lines up Round 1 for the demons.

This is one of the dumbest threads I have read on here. Lets leave out the here-say. I would be willing to bet $100 that Jack Watts lines up Round 1 for the demons.

Not much interest in that one.He will be there worthy or not!

His game against the lions was terrible wasn't leading hand on hip the whole time needs a spell in the 2s, cook looked alot better more intensity