maybe you should go 'jack-off'

Pretty rare I reply to a joke post, but that was gold.

Well done Disco.

Just because Cox and Natanui are our opponents doesn't mean we need PJ.

In fact, if you think PJ might be okay but maybe break-even or get beaten, we may as well sacrifice the second ruck role and try and exploit NN's awareness by playing a smaller type, like Dunn, against him.

No we do ned PJ in the side this week - We havent played against many strong rucking teams - Adelaide, Richmond, Brisbane, etc... We have played against a couple at best, however Jamar has been doing really well.

Last Friday was wet, and it didnt suit PJ at all... I hope he sits at full forward, takes Glass and leaves watts, bate, etc to run around him...

Jamar needs help, he himself is only just coming on as a ruckman, to overload him and make him basically the lone ruckman in our side will burn him out i think...

My prediction for Jack Watts this weekend - 2 or 3 Goals and about 12 - 15 touches. If he plays on the HFF he will be taking marks up around the wing, although he has the speed to run back into an open 50...

BTW - WOuldnt mind seeing beamer & co slam NicNat like they did Dangerfield....

Just because Cox and Natanui are our opponents doesn't mean we need PJ.

BTW - WOuldnt mind seeing beamer & co slam NicNat like they did Dangerfield....

Wasnt beamer, was Bartram, JMac and Juice who tackled Dangerfield...

That said Beamer is well up to the task, and how much of a mission will Sylvia be on to smash someone? (especially if his name is Kennedy).

Edited May 17, 201015 yr by Rogue

We all know that Col Sylvia has a fair bit of go in him.....hopefully he can dish out the punishment to Kennedy...BUT in a fair way....some more difficult games on the horizon and can't afford to have Col sitting on the sidelines because of some silly retribution.

In any case, it's the AFL that deserve a square up on this one........3 weeks should've been the minimum for Kennedy!

I remember when Newton came into the side earlier this year he actually put together some inconspicuous, but effective footy as a kind of decoy forward. At the time Petterd was also playing (Petterd = Hughes sort of) , but I reckon we might see him drift up the ground a bit. That'll disappoint those expecting a bag...

I remember when Newton came into the side earlier this year he actually put together some inconspicuous, but effective footy as a kind of decoy forward. At the time Petterd was also playing (Petterd = Hughes sort of) , but I reckon we might see him drift up the ground a bit. That'll disappoint those expecting a bag...

Hughes has the oppurtunity to get under the radar with the inclusion of Watts

If we play at our improved best there is a real possibilty for Hughes to be the dominant forward

That is saying nothing.

Less than nothing.

He has "The Project" Spencer, "The Crock" Meesen, and "The Lost" Martin to contend with. I would prefer Jamar spend 60% of the game following and the other 40% in the forward line coming up for every bounce.

And play another runner.

Up against a team like West Coast I'm not sure that would be the best strategy. Giving Cox/Naitanui free hit outs would only make it tougher for us to get a clearance.

Most teams don't have two ruckmen in their side that you would have as your number 1 ruckman though, so West Coast aside that kind of plan might work. And certainly Johnson isn't good enough to demand a spot in the team as a second ruckman against a lot of other sides.

Drop Johnson AND Dunn then Watts likely will have to ruck at some point to give Jamar a chop out. Jamar is more likely to get hurt, now or in the future, and even if he doesn't on Saturday, the extra runner becomes redundant as the opposition ruckmen end up dominating. Watts as backup gets smashed by Nicnat, and is dropped the following week to let in.... Johnson.

Yep, I'm sure Watts will be thrown in the ruck.

I get your point, but surely you realise that Watts would never be put in the ruck. If it came down to it, Rivers or Garland might get that 'honour'. Maybe even Hughes, with his leap.

Can i just start off by saying, Holy Crap this thread is huge!

OK, now on topic! Congrats to Watts, sounded like he had a great game on the weekend and i hope he makes a good contribution to the side. IMO the club has done the right thing in holding him back until he put in a worthy performance, otherwise we're right back to rewarding mediocrity. I'll be very interested to see if himself and Hughes work well together as they have played a few games with each other this year, and with that in mind it could help Hughes for this game.

Good luck Jack.

If we play at our improved best there is a real possibilty for Hughes to be the dominant forward

I was thinking that. The same can be said for both though... If one gets picked up by their better defenders, the other will slip through. I have a feeling you may well be right. I would imagine a #1 draft pick of Watts' profile would be a good scalp to have, and being basically our only genuine forward line tall would mean stopping him would make a HUGE difference the WC's on-field fortunes.

Up against a team like West Coast I'm not sure that would be the best strategy. Giving Cox/Naitanui free hit outs would only make it tougher for us to get a clearance.

Hence the idea of playing 2 ruckmen. Jamar on his own? Even he would get done.

so West Coast aside that kind of plan might work. And certainly Johnson isn't good enough to demand a spot in the team as a second ruckman against a lot of other sides.

I don't agree. I don't think that's "certain" at all. I said it before, and I'll say it again. His form last season was patchy, but there was good footy played. Particularly when he had the job to himself. I'm not saying he's going to come in and star, but he's our second ruck for good reason. No-one gave Jamar the time of day a couple of years ago, and look what happened there? Having said that... I will concede the point, MOSTLY because looking at his form, he's barely played this year. If he smashed it in the VFL for months, then fair enough. Personally I'd like to see him with a full pre-season and no surgery under his belt. A la Jamar. Mostly because of the difference we see now between a fully fit Jamar, and sore-foot Jamar...

I get your point, but surely you realise that Watts would never be put in the ruck. If it came down to it, Rivers or Garland might get that 'honour'. Maybe even Hughes, with his leap.

Disagree completely. If you said to me earlier this year that Dunn and Newton were going to share the rucking back-up job I'd have scoffed. Watts is 195cm (Martin's height), is quick and can jump. I'm not saying he's a league ruckman, but he'd be better suited to it than the other 20 guys in the 22. Rivers (no pace, no leap) and Garland (not that tall) would never play in the ruck. What's more, they've played most games this year and neither have.

Why WOULDN'T Watts play in the ruck if PJ wasn't in the side? Is it because he's so important to our forward line structure? No. He's barely played. Is it because we don't want him to get hurt? Maybe, but there's nothing to suggest he will. Fitness? Perhaps. Is it the NicNat factor? Hey, no-one wants to see NicNat go up against him. Jack would get towelled. Still doesn't mean he wouldn't though, if we had no-one else.

Edited May 14, 201015 yr by Dappa Dan

Dont think this has been posted anywhere else yet.

Piece on real footy about saturdays game. DB quoted as just asking for a 'contribution' from Jack.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/younggun-showdown-as-watts-faces-naitanui-20100514-v2ya.html

Seems fair to me, small steps.

Dont think this has been posted anywhere else yet.

Piece on real footy about saturdays game. DB quoted as just asking for a 'contribution' from Jack.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/younggun-showdown-as-watts-faces-naitanui-20100514-v2ya.html

Seems fair to me, small steps.

Contribution, just like DB is asking from the other 21 players. That's all.

There's also an article on afl.com: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/94260/default.aspx

I don't agree. I don't think that's "certain" at all. I said it before, and I'll say it again. His form last season was patchy, but there was good footy played. Particularly when he had the job to himself. I'm not saying he's going to come in and star, but he's our second ruck for good reason. No-one gave Jamar the time of day a couple of years ago, and look what happened there? Having said that... I will concede the point, MOSTLY because looking at his form, he's barely played this year. If he smashed it in the VFL for months, then fair enough. Personally I'd like to see him with a full pre-season and no surgery under his belt. A la Jamar. Mostly because of the difference we see now between a fully fit Jamar, and sore-foot Jamar...

I applaud you for continuing to put up a fight despite the majority of the rest of us disagreeing with you. But I'm never going to be convinced.

With respect, this is why you are not running a football department.

Johnson vs Cox last year = win for Johnson. Jamar vs NicNat last year = HUGE win for Jamar.

Drop Johnson AND Dunn then Watts likely will have to ruck at some point to give Jamar a chop out. Jamar is more likely to get hurt, now or in the future, and even if he doesn't on Saturday, the extra runner becomes redundant as the opposition ruckmen end up dominating. Watts as backup gets smashed by Nicnat, and is dropped the following week to let in.... Johnson.

From any reasonable perspective, Johnson is in the 22... because like any good footy judge knows (including you) the Ruckmen are not competing with the midfielders for a place in the starting side. Johnson becomes redundant when we play, say, the Hawks... Or any other side playing only 1 ruckman, because... wait for it... he's a supporting ruckman. And a good one at that. It's typical 'ology/'land groupthink that suggests Johnson isn't up to it. He's shown plenty of good form in the first half of his career... It's fair to say he's shown more than Jamar did at the same stage, and now Mark is a potential AA. And as for the whole "Jamar's a ruckman/Johnson's a possession getter" thing... Johnson isn't the same quality as Jamar in the taps, but he holds his own. The opposite argument was made AGAINST Jamar a year and a half ago, that he didn't pick up enough possessions. Johnson is a great accumulator for a big man with pace and a kick... if we can get him to play to his strengths, he'll be a sensational asset, and will make our starting ruck division one of the best in the game.

But I won't expect anyone here to agree with this. Never let the facts get in the way of a good witch hunt.

Believe it or not, i agree with you entirely. Johnson is a fantastic compliment ruckmen to Jamar. It means we have one top tap ruckmen who can rest in the forward line, and another possession winning ruckment who is versatile enough to help up forward while being decent enough in the tap to not lose too much.

I think the lineup we have for this week (given the players available) is a great lineup. I can't see any other player who could come in the moment that would be of benefit. Also, worth noting that Joel McDonald could find it tough to get back into this team despite being picked up to be the backline general... Its fantastic to have such a richness of talent after the Daniher years when we had to pesist with blue collar guys like Godfrey and Nathan Brown to fill out the team. They were good hard working players but had no where near the skill level of the guys we have coming through now.

I applaud you for continuing to put up a fight despite the majority of the rest of us disagreeing with you. But I'm never going to be convinced.

Heard it al before... only the name then was Jamar, not Johnson. And whatever people put up against Johnson, it's still about one tenth as bad as what people said about Mark.

But yes, good on you for bucking the 'land trend and being respectful.

Believe it or not, i agree with you entirely. Johnson is a fantastic compliment ruckmen to Jamar. It means we have one top tap ruckmen who can rest in the forward line, and another possession winning ruckment who is versatile enough to help up forward while being decent enough in the tap to not lose too much.

Man, I've been saying this for ages.

I think the lineup we have for this week (given the players available) is a great lineup. I can't see any other player who could come in the moment that would be of benefit. Also, worth noting that Joel McDonald could find it tough to get back into this team despite being picked up to be the backline general... Its fantastic to have such a richness of talent after the Daniher years when we had to pesist with blue collar guys like Godfrey and Nathan Brown to fill out the team. They were good hard working players but had no where near the skill level of the guys we have coming through now.

It's weird isn't it? On one hand I'm amazed and surprised at how much better we are in the skill department than last year. On the other hand, my experience tells me that there's some sort of disappointment on its way. I've never seen an MFC list anywhere near this good.

No-one gave Jamar the time of day a couple of years ago, and look what happened there? Having said that...

ND did. He kept saying that once the Ruskie realises how big he is he will be a very good ruckman.

But I digress.

Oh Dappa Dan i'm just going to have to pull you up on a couple of statistical errors. Jack Watts is now 196cm according to the MFC website (and apparently still growing). Stef Martin is almost a full inch taller at 198cm

Oh Dappa Dan i'm just going to have to pull you up on a couple of statistical errors. Jack Watts is now 196cm according to the MFC website (and apparently still growing). Stef Martin is almost a full inch taller at 198cm

Actually, I know Jack's sister and she told me a few months back that he is 198 cm now.

Edited May 14, 201015 yr by AdamFarr

Well I know the obstetrician that delivered Jack, as well as his paediatrician when he was a young lad. Met his hairdresser last week and even got talking to the cashier at the local supermarket where his mum buys milk.

But seriously...can we stop with the mindless speculation. I don't care if it's about his height, weight, playing ability or off-field behaviour, lets just bloody give the kid ago. James Brayshaw made the point on TFS last night that Jack has - over the last year and a half - been one of the most unfairly treated players by the media and even his own supporters.

He either will or won't make it. For us to waste energy speculating on this is nonsense as what we say is not going to change this fact in the slightest. That the club believes he was worth a first pick suggests that they believe he will make it, based on many assessments made throughout a long and trying season. At a time when everything else at the club seems to be running smoothly, why should we have any reason to doubt they are wrong on this?

Edited May 14, 201015 yr by Brettmcg

Believe it or not, i agree with you entirely. Johnson is a fantastic compliment ruckmen to Jamar. It means we have one top tap ruckmen who can rest in the forward line, and another possession winning ruckment who is versatile enough to help up forward while being decent enough in the tap to not lose too much.

I have heard from those in the know that PJ is considered out ruck future and is Jamar's number 2 by a mile. He's been very impressive a few years back and will get better with fitness.

As an aside, can't be bothered reading everything in these 18 pages (though I think I've read most), this was in the Casey match report on the MFC official website:

Jack Watts - Kicks 6, Handballs 14, Marks 7, Tackles 5, Goals 4

Jack had probably his best game for the year for us. We had him down for seventeen touches, seven marks, four goals two. He was also involved in a couple of other passages of play that created goals, and goal assists, and with the four goals two, one of them hit the post. He did beautifully. He’s got that kicking back, so he would have been well pleased with that. He worked in really well with Brad Miller and Michael Newton, as a forward trio. Jack’s heading in an excellent direction, and he’s been doing that the last couple of weeks.

All I want to point out is the stats are very wrong. If he had 6 kicks, then all his kicks were shots for goal. That is wrong. I was there. He sent off at least a couple of passes by foot. And the coaches had him down for 17 touches. The stats above say 20. So when analysing the stats on the official site from VFL games, take them as a guide only. Use the coaches words as an indicator of form, not meaningless (and incorrect) statistics.

Oh, and good luck big young fella for tomorrow. I'm not going to be able to make it there due to work commitments (Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!), but I've already set the recorder and looking forward to a big win.

Go Dees and go young Jack Watts!!!!

In today's papers:

The HUN Watts must perform, says Bailey

The Age: A tale of two teens

From the latter:

His game is punctuated with exhilarating moments that will make every highlight reel, along with periods of inactivity and minimal output. In 17 games he is averaging just over three kicks, one mark and eight handballs a game.

Listening the his game against the Swans (in Sydney) 3 weeks ago, he (NicNat) got his first possession midway through the third quarter.

Edited May 14, 201015 yr by M_9

In today's papers:

The HUN Watts must perform, says Bailey

The Age: A tale of two teens

From the latter:

His game is punctuated with exhilarating moments that will make every highlight reel, along with periods of inactivity and minimal output. In 17 games he is averaging just over three kicks, one mark and eight handballs a game.

Listening the his game against the Swans (in Sydney) 3 weeks ago, he (NicNat) got his first possession midway through the third quarter.

but yet he is favourite 4 rising star and will probably win purely on hype, IMO he doesnt get enough of the ball to be favourite

jamar hits it out to jack trengove who clears it to jack grimes,,,,jack grimes one bounce, two bounce....kicks it long to a leading jack watts....jack watts goes back and kicks the goal! Boom..,,and bruce says, " that was jack special"

and the players get around watts to celebrate his first goal for the match include:

Jared Rivers

James Frawley

James McDonald

Jordie McKenzie

Jamie Bennell

Nathan Jones

Mark Jamar

The HUN Watts must perform, says Bailey

From this article:

Watts has noticeably bulked up from last year. He was an under-prepared schoolboy when physically intimidated by Collingwood backmen in his debut last June.

I'm guessing that Bruce Matthews is a Collingwood supporter.

Watts may have struggled a little but he never looked physically intimidated.