I am of the opinion that training facilities and dollars spent on football department are the key ingredients

to success.

For the last five years we have been a long last. In the past you cold get away with this but

the super speed and strenght in football now demands this.

So I don't believe that draft picks automatically mean success.

Can someone help me here . Can someone tell me how many top 10 draft picks each team had at the end of last

year. Do not include Scully Trengove etc etc as they have not played yet.

So I don't believe that draft picks automatically mean success.

Can someone tell me how many top 10 draft picks each team had at the end of last

year.

How about you do your own research. I'll help you with a link.

http://www.footywire.com

I don't think anyone expects that top 10 draft picks guarantee success, but each year as talent identification improves the better players are coming from early picks.

For example, look at Sheahan's top 10 for 2010.

Ablett, Riewoldt, Franklin, Judd, Brown, Selwood, Goodes, Scarlett, Hodge, Cooney.

Who's the odd player out in that group? Goodes. Every other player is either a gun F/S selection, or a top 10 draft pick.

Now some can critisize Sheahan's list, but that top 10 is quite a reasonable guide going into the current season.

Stars of the game are most likely going to come from early picks or F/S's. But yeah, the right development is obviously important too.

Here you go, because I had nothing better to do.

Adelaide – 2

(Dangerfield, Davis)

Brisbane Lions – 7

(Brennan, Johnstone, Clark, Henderson, Leuenberger, Power, Rich)

Carlton – 7

(Gibbs, Judd, Kreuzer, Murphy, Russell, Walker, Yarran)

Collingwood – 7

(Brown, Didak, Fraser, O'Bree, Pendlebury, Reid, Thomas)

Essendon – 7

(Gumbleton, Hurley, Laycock, Lucas, M McVeigh, Myers, Ryder), 8 if you count Lloyd (compensatory selection)

Fremantle – 9

(Bradley, Drum, Hasleby, Headland, Hill, McPharlin, Palmer, Pavlich, Tarrant)

Geelong – 6

(Bartel, Corey, Mackie, Ottens, Selwood, Tenace)

Hawthorn – 8

(Croad, Dowler, Ellis, Franklin, Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, Thorp)

Melbourne – 5

(McLean, Meesen, Morton, Sylvia, Watts)

North Melb – 5

(Hale, Hansen, McIntosh, Power, Wells, Ziebell)

Port Adelaide – 7

(Boak, Butcher, Carr, C Cornes, Hartlett, D Motlop, Salopek), 10 if you count three zone selections (Tredrea, Lade, P Burgoyne)

Richmond – 8

(Brown, Cotchin, Deledio, McMahon, Oakley-Nicholls, Polak, Tambling, Vickery)

St Kilda – 9

(Ball, R Clarke, X Clarke, Gardiner, Goddard, Koschitzke, McEvoy, Ray, Riewoldt), 10 if you count King (compensatory selection)

Sydney Swans – 2

(J Bolton, J McVeigh)

West Coast – 3

(Kennedy, Masten, Naitanui), 4 if you count Wirrpanda (compensatory selection)

Western Bulldogs – 4

(Cooney, Griffen, Williams, Grant), 6 if you count Akermanis and Eagleton (zone selections)

And to rank them in order:

St Kilda – 9

Fremantle – 9

Richmond – 8

Hawthorn – 8

Brisbane Lions – 7

Carlton – 7

Collingwood – 7

Essendon – 7

Port Adelaide – 7

Geelong – 6

Melbourne – 5

North Melb – 5

Western Bulldogs – 4

West Coast – 3

Adelaide – 2

Sydney Swans – 2

I am of the opinion that training facilities and dollars spent on football department are the key ingredients

to success.

For the last five years we have been a long last. In the past you cold get away with this but

the super speed and strenght in football now demands this.

So I don't believe that draft picks automatically mean success.

Can someone help me here . Can someone tell me how many top 10 draft picks each team had at the end of last

year. Do not include Scully Trengove etc etc as they have not played yet.

The issues you raised are important components no doubt. But the according to Leigh Matthews in an article in the Press that without the quality of players on your list the other components wont get you there. Having access to top 10 draft picks if used correctly provides you with the best opportunity to access the stars you need to develop a Flag winning side.

So for MFC to be successful, it needs 4 or 5 of the following to become stars, quality A graders......Scully, Trengove, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Frawley, Morton and Jurrah. If they are not stars they need to be very good players. We also need a number of the sub 16 draft picks players to step and be very capable footballers with 1 or 2 (like Garland being a A grade). It helps to have the top draft picks but you also must use them wisely.

The issues you raised are important components no doubt. But the according to Leigh Matthews in an article in the Press that without the quality of players on your list the other components wont get you there. Having access to top 10 draft picks if used correctly provides you with the best opportunity to access the stars you need to develop a Flag winning side.

So for MFC to be successful, it needs 4 or 5 of the following to become stars, quality A graders......Scully, Trengove, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Frawley, Morton and Jurrah. If they are not stars they need to be very good players. We also need a number of the sub 16 draft picks players to step and be very capable footballers with 1 or 2 (like Garland being a A grade). It helps to have the top draft picks but you also must use them wisely.

How many top 10 draft picks did Richmond have in their side last night? How many top 20? What gets teams to the top is the "whole" package, not just draft picks and not just state of the art facilities.

Edited March 26, 201015 yr by iv'a worn smith

The issues you raised are important components no doubt. But the according to Leigh Matthews in an article in the Press that without the quality of players on your list the other components wont get you there. Having access to top 10 draft picks if used correctly provides you with the best opportunity to access the stars you need to develop a Flag winning side.

So for MFC to be successful, it needs 4 or 5 of the following to become stars, quality A graders......Scully, Trengove, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Frawley, Morton and Jurrah. If they are not stars they need to be very good players. We also need a number of the sub 16 draft picks players to step and be very capable footballers with 1 or 2 (like Garland being a A grade). It helps to have the top draft picks but you also must use them wisely.

Grimes and Garland are capable of being ones that step up. And potentially Max Gawn altho clearly we havent seen him at the Dees yet. His height and flexibility were on show at Sandy and he has plenty of potenti.......(Ican't quite bring myself to say it)

What I find interesting is players at say WCE and Geelong who wouldn't have been seen as guns unless they were playing in a good side. Someone like an Enright or maybe Chad FLetcher. Maybe I haven't picked the right examples but I'd like to see how Enright was regarded if he was at Fremantle or Cam Bruce at Geelong.

And to rank them in order:

St Kilda – 9

Fremantle – 9

Richmond – 8

Hawthorn – 8

Brisbane Lions – 7

Carlton – 7

Collingwood – 7

Essendon – 7

Port Adelaide – 7

Geelong – 6

Melbourne – 5

North Melb – 5

Western Bulldogs – 4

West Coast – 3

Adelaide – 2

Sydney Swans – 2

Thanks for that

Unfortunately it doesn't prove my point but

Interesting that Adelaide( top facilities) only had two but have been in finals every year.

Fremantle and Richmond (average facilities) rank highly but have performed badly

I am of the opinion that training facilities and dollars spent on football department are the key ingredients

to success.

Slightly off topic. But did anyone see on Ch10 during last nights coverage, when Marc Murphy gave a tour of the new facility down at Carlton ? State-of-the-art.

I thought they were in debt....obviously bankrolled by VISY

Interesting that Adelaide( top facilities) only had two but have been in finals every year.

Fremantle and Richmond (average facilities) rank highly but have performed badly

What gives you the idea that Fremantle's facilities are average (and by average, I suspect you mean poor if you call Richmond average)? Like any of the non-Victorian clubs, Freo is very well off in terms of the facilities available to its players.

If I had to guess, I'd say the clubs' facilities could be roughly ranked thus:

Elite - Adelaide, West Coast, Carlton, North Melbourne, Hawthorn, Collingwood

Excellent - Sydney, Brisbane Lions, Fremantle, Port Adelaide

Adequate - Essendon, Geelong, Western Bulldogs (unsure if their development at Whitten Oval is complete yet),

Below standard - St Kilda, Richmond

Third world - Melbourne

Anyone who might be better informed, fire away.

Edited March 26, 201015 yr by MikeyJ

For example, look at Sheahan's top 10 for 2010.

Ablett, Riewoldt, Franklin, Judd, Brown, Selwood, Goodes, Scarlett, Hodge, Cooney.

Who's the odd player out in that group? Goodes. Every other player is either a gun F/S selection, or a top 10 draft pick.

Everybody seems to put Ablett as a gun father/son pick, but as every Geelong fan will tell you, there wasn't much interest in Gary Ablett. The GFC got more out of him than any other club would have.

GL.

How many top 10 draft picks did Richmond have in their side last night? How many top 20? What gets teams to the top is the "whole" package, not just draft picks and not just state of the art facilities.

Read Leigh's article. He is right. It is the whole package but the key ingredient is the quality of your list. Unless your past playere are superior gene pool for F/S then you are going to have to draft the bulk of the talent you need

And as I said before it not just having the draft picks, its using them wisely. Richmond are stellar example of not doing that...in spades.

Everybody seems to put Ablett as a gun father/son pick, but as every Geelong fan will tell you, there wasn't much interest in Gary Ablett. The GFC got more out of him than any other club would have.

GL.

Because every man and his dog knew he was going to Geelong. And your last sentence has no substance.

I am of the opinion that training facilities and dollars spent on football department are the key ingredients

to success.

For the last five years we have been a long last. In the past you cold get away with this but

the super speed and strenght in football now demands this.

So I don't believe that draft picks automatically mean success.

Can someone help me here . Can someone tell me how many top 10 draft picks each team had at the end of last

year. Do not include Scully Trengove etc etc as they have not played yet.

Your ability to re-cycle / trade and develop your list cannot be underestimated - which is highly influenced by your "training facilities and dollars spent on football department"

Drafting is only one component of list improvement.

Everybody seems to put Ablett as a gun father/son pick, but as every Geelong fan will tell you, there wasn't much interest in Gary Ablett. The GFC got more out of him than any other club would have.

GL.

Great story.

I have two questions for you. 1. Is Ablett a gun? 2. Is Ablett a F/S selection?

Take your time.

Slightly off topic. But did anyone see on Ch10 during last nights coverage, when Marc Murphy gave a tour of the new facility down at Carlton ? State-of-the-art.

I thought they were in debt....obviously bankrolled by VISY

I haveseen them with my own eyes-exemplary.And North Melbourne's is notfar behind.No wonder why Schwabby stated we areat least 3 goals a game worse of than other clubs just on facilities alone. However, we only have to wait weeks for ours to raise it's head and I tell you- they will also be something else.

The issue is finding the players to fit around your top ten picks. Robbie Flower might be able to tell a story or two about being a gun in a team full of duds.

Read Leigh's article. He is right. It is the whole package but the key ingredient is the quality of your list. Unless your past playere are superior gene pool for F/S then you are going to have to draft the bulk of the talent you need

And as I said before it not just having the draft picks, its using them wisely. Richmond are stellar example of not doing that...in spades.

Got a link for that article Rhino?

Or at least what paper it was in & a rough idea how long ago?

12 months ago or so in the Hun.

Wish I kept a link/copy.

Very instructive and a perfect remedy for some of the fallacies tossed around here about ingredients for success.

Slightly off topic. But did anyone see on Ch10 during last nights coverage, when Marc Murphy gave a tour of the new facility down at Carlton ? State-of-the-art.

I thought they were in debt....obviously bankrolled by VISY

Perfectly on topic if you ask me. Amazing what money can do!

12 months ago or so in the Hun.

Wish I kept a link/copy.

Very instructive and a perfect remedy for some of the fallacies tossed around here about ingredients for success.

Yeah, I kept a link to an article Lethal wrote about coaching and I'm holding onto it until such time as the natives get restless.

He's an astute bugger, that Leigh Matthews.

Here you go, because I had nothing better to do.

Melbourne – 5

(McLean, Meesen, Morton, Sylvia, Watts)

So we had 5 players on last years list that were top ten draft picks. And none of them are playing for Melbourne today.

And we have the worst training facilities.

Fortunately both areas will improve before the end of this season.

Carlton, well in debt and under pressure to even pay off an AFL soft-loan on time, still manage to have tens of millions handy for a redevelopment.

They have been able to pursue a high-risk business model because they are the proverbial 'too big to fail'. They should be sponsored by CitiBank.

Meanwhile, Melbourne is running the lower risk, methodical, steady growth model.

'Debt Demolition' at Carlton would have immediately been spent on the next available competitive advantage. I'm assuming people are aware that Carlton are sitting on several million dollars of debt.

Different attitudes. Different ways of reaching a goal. We might not 'pass' them on the field for two or three more years, but when we do, they will never climb back above us again.