Pre Season Testing

[Keyser Söze 0]

Mind you, Andrew Mackie is 192cm and 87kg; Joel Corey is 191cm and 89kg.

5kg could be enough, but I think Morton could stand to add 10kg and not lose any of his effectiveness.

[Brayshaws' Helmet 143]

I am watching his development with special attention since a gloating Hawthorn supporter said last year as their Rioli darted around the 'G "You could have had him (Rioli)". Yeah, but, we got Cale.

The best response will be in two, and three and four etc years' time as Cale continues to develop and Rioli handy as he is, proves to be no better than he is already.

one of the worst statements i've heard.

Rioli > Morton

and always will be

[old55 21,917]

What do the beep and 3km time trial really measure in terms of a football match?

They probably measure the players ability to get to more contests through sustained hard running and this is an important advantage. But let's say Judd and McLean have roughly the same results on these tests and therefore can get to the same contests - it's what they do once they are there tthat make the difference - both have contested ball winning capability but it is Judd's explosive acceleration that is his differentiator. I'd go as far as to say that even if his 3km and beep were average he'd still be elite because of this. It's highly likely a tagger would need comparable beep and 3km to make the contests with his elite quarry.

The final measure of beep and 3km may be match-long endurance - the ability to go hard late in quarters and in the 4th quarter, particularly when your tagger may be burnt. I'm not sure if the results in the beep and 3km directly correlate to these longer endurance requirements.

Edited February 1, 2010 by old55

[Keyser Söze 0]

What do the beep and 3km time trial really measure in terms of a football match?

They probably measure the players ability to get to more contests through sustained hard running and this is an important advantage. But let's say Judd and McLean have roughly the same results on these tests and therefore can get to the same contests - it's what they do once they are there tthat make the difference - both have contested ball winning capability but it is Judd's explosive acceleration that is his differentiator. I'd go as far as to say that even if his 3km and beep were average he'd still be elite because of this. It's highly likely a tagger would need comparable beep and 3km to make the contests with his elite quarry.

The final measure of beep and 3km may be match-long endurance - the ability to go hard late in quarters and in the 4th quarter, particularly when your tagger may be burnt. I'm not sure if the results in the beep and 3km directly correlate to these longer endurance requirements.

The yoyo test that the club obviously does is a better representation of match fitness and ability to get to contests, due to its process of: Run 20m, Run 20m again, Rest ~5m (jog/walk), Repeat.

In terms of Judd still being elite if he had an ordinary beep or yoyo test... I dispute that.

If he had the ability to sprint over a short distance time and again in a match (which he does), then why wouldn't he be able to do it in a test the tries to mimic a match?

If he could not sustain that effort in a yoyo or beep test, then he won't be able to do it on the field, and if Judd was only good for a couple of sprints per game, he wouldn't be the player he is.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Keyser Söze

[Viney Vidi Vici 138]

The yoyo test that the club obviously does is a better representation of match fitness and ability to get to contests, due to its process of: Run 20m, Run 20m again, Rest ~5m (jog/walk), Repeat.

In terms of Judd still being elite if he had an ordinary beep or yoyo test... I dispute that.

If he had the ability to sprint over a short distance time and again in a match (which he does), then why wouldn't he be able to do it in a test the tries to mimic a match?

If he could not sustain that effort in a yoyo or beep test, then he won't be able to do it on the field, and if Judd was only good for a couple of sprints per game, he wouldn't be the player he is.

I don't know the ins and outs of a yoyo test, but if its anything like the beep test, which people seem to say, then no, it won't test his repeat sprinting capabilities at all. Both a 3km trial and a beep test will purely test aerobic capacity. obviously a beep test increases in speed, but the test is designed to assess the capabilities of the aerobic system. Sprinting, will predominantly use another system (creatine-phosphate) which is only short-lasting. In a match, heart rate will be consistently in the aerobic region,hopefully, if higher than lactic acid build-up occurs, and thats what training the system (and of course testing to measure) will help develop, leading to faster recovery, and ability to do go for longer.

so... what i think i'm getting to is, testing doesn't measure repeat sprint efforts, but the training will help players recover faster, and therefore be able to sprint more often, as well as, just run at a normal speed for longer.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Morton is listed at 83kg.

He could easily add another 10kg at his height and not lose any of his mobility, conditional on it being done gradually over time.

Barry Hall is 194cm (2cm taller) but weighs 104kg.

He might not run the same distances, but I'd still rate him as having excellent mobility.

Cale Morton has a frame and body type unlike any of those players.

Weight is different to Muscle. When they talk about putting in Kg's they mean muscle. They bring down their body fat % and general weight and turn it into muscle. 10kg of muscle is a Sh!t load. As an example James Frawley's overall weight is actually only changed about 2 kg since starting, he has lost a lot of body fat % and toned up and turned it into muscle. Cale Morton will not put on 10kg.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Mr Morton

[old55 21,917]

In terms of Judd still being elite if he had an ordinary beep or yoyo test... I dispute that.

If he had the ability to sprint over a short distance time and again in a match (which he does), then why wouldn't he be able to do it in a test the tries to mimic a match?

It's different because there's a resting gap in between his repeat sprints at clearances, as I understand it there's no rest in the beep. If he had an average beep he might make less contests but at the ones he does make his repeat sprint maybe just as effective. I'm not saying that he'd be just as good as he is with a great beep - the ability to make more contests is an advantage - more contests means more opportunity for game breaking clearances, but he still may be able to make those differentiating game breaking clearances, albeit less of them.

Maybe the yo-yo test is a better measure because it apperently includes a "rest" interval - I'm not familiar with it. There's also a "repeat sprints" test at the draft camp which may measure Judd's edge better.

What I'm really saying is that I'm unconvinced Judd's 3km time or his beep test measure why he's elite. It's a combination of contested ball winning, repeat sprint, and ability to make many contests. If you had to take one of those factors out of his game and retain effectiveness which one would you lose? Take out the repeat sprint and you've got McLean ...

Edited February 2, 2010 by old55