... I haven't yet seen anything in the way that Bailey is instructing the players to play the game, both with ball in hand and when defending, that gives me confidence that with a good list we would be successful.

Really? Try the first quarter against Collingwood in round 2, 2009. Much of the first half against St Kilda, R22, 2009. The first half against Richmond, R4, 2009. Basically the whole game against the Western Bulldogs, R8, 2009. The whole game against Fremantle, R20, 2009.

I'm not just talking about the scoreboard, although it's an undeniable indicator of improvement. I'm talking about the way the ball was moved, the structure of our team and the increased commitment to defence through all positions.

If you honestly didn't see anything promising from those games - not even a skerrick of a fluid, coherent game plan or a consistent system of play - then I reckon you're the problem, not Dean Bailey.

The tom tom drums have started on January 20 for the first sacked coach story:

FREMANTLE captain Matthew Pavlich will not let the fact that coach Mark Harvey's contract is up at season's end affect the way the Dockers go about their 2010 AFL campaign.

Harvey being off-contract has inevitably led to speculation about his future, but Pavlich says he and his players won't be letting that enter their thoughts as they prepare for the season.

''From our perspective, it's always business as usual from the playing group and it's certainly not discussed at any level,'' he said.

Source: The Age.

And Gysberts, like Grimes, was highly rated by us compared to the general consensus (apparently we rated Gys the 4th best midfielder).

Where did you get that info from? If true we obviously saw something that several other teams did not. At pick 11 and with only Butcher not being a mid and assuming we had Martin as number 3 then 6 clubs clearly disagreed. If we are proved correct he will be one of the all time bargains at the top end of the draft.

As you said fingers crossed and hopefully he has a good career with us.

The tom tom drums have started on January 20 for the first sacked coach story:

FREMANTLE captain Matthew Pavlich will not let the fact that coach Mark Harvey's contract is up at season's end affect the way the Dockers go about their 2010 AFL campaign.

Harvey being off-contract has inevitably led to speculation about his future, but Pavlich says he and his players won't be letting that enter their thoughts as they prepare for the season.

''From our perspective, it's always business as usual from the playing group and it's certainly not discussed at any level,'' he said.

Source: The Age.

This just confirms my earlier point; speculation about Harvey will not stop and will become more destabilising.

As it happens, I don't rate Harvey, but he should get a 12 month extension. Otherwise the club will suffer.

Without comparing Bailey to Harvey, the same applies at the MFC. Speculation is destabilising, and THE CLUB SUFFERS.

Article link here: link

And Gysberts, like Grimes, was highly rated by us compared to the general consensus ......

My understanding is that Grimes was highly rated by all clubs, but there was a big query about his fitness (back stress fractures etc). We were the most prepared to take the gamble.

Fingers crossed.

This just confirms my earlier point; speculation about Harvey will not stop and will become more destabilising.

As it happens, I don't rate Harvey, but he should get a 12 month extension. Otherwise the club will suffer.

Without comparing Bailey to Harvey, the same applies at the MFC. Speculation is destabilising, and THE CLUB SUFFERS.

Article link here: link

Agree on the media impact. However, Harvey should only get a 12 month extension if the Club believes it is in the Clubs interest to do so. I am not Freo will want Harvey beyond this year. I understand it is usually a term in an AFL coaches contract that if their club is not going to be re hire him on a new contract or an extension to an existing contract then the Club must inform the Coach by an agreed time mid term in his last year and the Coach may have the choice to leave.

If Freo are not going to offer another contract to Harvey either they will sack him or Harvey will walk at some pressure point during the year. And you can bet the media will goading and flaming the slaughter. The article already shows they have the scent of blood in their vulture like nostrils and are circling.

Unless Freo perform miles above expectations, I reckon Harvey wont last until the end of May 2010 and will be gone one way or the other.

Agree on the media impact. However, Harvey should only get a 12 month extension if the Club believes it is in the Clubs interest to do so. I am not Freo will want Harvey beyond this year. I understand it is usually a term in an AFL coaches contract that if their club is not going to be re hire him on a new contract or an extension to an existing contract then the Club must inform the Coach by an agreed time mid term in his last year and the Coach may have the choice to leave.

If Freo are not going to offer another contract to Harvey either they will sack him or Harvey will walk at some pressure point during the year. And you can bet the media will goading and flaming the slaughter. The article already shows they have the scent of blood in their vulture like nostrils and are circling.

Unless Freo perform miles above expectations, I reckon Harvey wont last until the end of May 2010 and will be gone one way or the other.

"Scent of blood; ..vulture like nostrils"......ewww I never knew the Dockers could be so nasty.

That term or clause in an AFL Coaches contract - was that something the AFL Coaches Association initiated RR?

"Scent of blood; ..vulture like nostrils"......ewww I never knew the Dockers could be so nasty.

That term or clause in an AFL Coaches contract - was that something the AFL Coaches Association initiated RR?

Its not the Dockers being nasty. They are the carcasse.

I am not sure where that clause came from HT. But I think you would be on the money. It seems a reasonable get out clause for all parties to maintain face and partly mitigate the execution by media.

Really? Try the first quarter against Collingwood in round 2, 2009. Much of the first half against St Kilda, R22, 2009. The first half against Richmond, R4, 2009. Basically the whole game against the Western Bulldogs, R8, 2009. The whole game against Fremantle, R20, 2009.

Agreed. The first quarter of the pies game was the epitome of fluid, accurate, end-to-end football. The dogs game was a beauty, although they lost Murphy(?) early.

Its not the Dockers being nasty. They are the carcasse.

I am not sure where that clause came from HT. But I think you would be on the money. It seems a reasonable get out clause for all parties to maintain face and partly mitigate the execution by media.

Yes, and it might also therefore allow the outgoing coach to gain new employment opportunities within the industry courtesy of what you have outlined. Which seems reasonable enough.

Name your top six players and then tell me if they're capable to win games for us.

I bet you struggle.

I have

Davey

Green

??

??

??

??

Not alot to hang your hat on.

This has nothing to do with Bailey and noone other than Spunjy on this thread realises it.

I think you can add Liam Jurrah and Colin Sylvia to that list.

Really? Try the first quarter against Collingwood in round 2, 2009. Much of the first half against St Kilda, R22, 2009. The first half against Richmond, R4, 2009. Basically the whole game against the Western Bulldogs, R8, 2009. The whole game against Fremantle, R20, 2009.

I'm not just talking about the scoreboard, although it's an undeniable indicator of improvement. I'm talking about the way the ball was moved, the structure of our team and the increased commitment to defence through all positions.

If you honestly didn't see anything promising from those games - not even a skerrick of a fluid, coherent game plan or a consistent system of play - then I reckon you're the problem, not Dean Bailey.

Good to see someone else noticing these things, it might catch on!!

Good for you Billy, your football knowledge clearly far outweighs us all.

I couldn't care less about results this year (and haven't cared about them for the last 2). I know that we have/had a rubbish/young playing list in Bailey's time in charge. But in the games that I have seen live (sitting centre-wing in an elevated position) I haven't yet seen anything in the way that Bailey is instructing the players to play the game, both with ball in hand and when defending, that gives me confidence that with a good list we would be successful. Under 2 years of Bailey's instructions, there can be no excuses that the players are not yet familiar with his game plan, and from my vantage it seems awfully similar to that employed by ND in 2007 as well so it is nearly 3 years that these players have had of 'run-and-carry' (circular handball), negative tactics (loose man back 90% of the time), crowded midfield and an open (non-existent) forward line. For me these are the hallmarks of Bailey's game plan and I don't see how this current list (even with games under the belt) will achieve any success playing football this way.

So for mine he should not have his contract extended until at least a good portion of this season has passed, IF he shows that his game plan has the potential to achieve the ultimate success WHEN we have a strong list. Of course this is an entirely subjective criteria, however that is the very nature of coaching.

You really are a Hard Man to please. I saw a lot last year that excited me, and you are not taking into account that Bailey & co definately had the Handbrake on for a lot of the year 2009.

From your elevated position this year i think you will see a lot of DB's work come to fruition.

Jack (take your pick) could not commit 100% towards helping the team win during his first year at the club because he was asked to get himself set for the future.

Hypothetically, if they only had a one year contact, at the end of that year should he have been delisted as he'd done nothing or given another crack?

My point is, Dean has done everything he should have to this point and could have taken far easier paths. He was good enough for a three year contract when he started. Now having done the hard yards, and still being the same outstanding bloke, why doens't he deserve a crack at a couple of years behind the wheel of a team which he greatly contributed to building.

If another coach walked in and took the spoils of Deans outstanding work I'd "spew up".

Really? Try the first quarter against Collingwood in round 2, 2009. Much of the first half against St Kilda, R22, 2009. The first half against Richmond, R4, 2009. Basically the whole game against the Western Bulldogs, R8, 2009. The whole game against Fremantle, R20, 2009.

I'm not just talking about the scoreboard, although it's an undeniable indicator of improvement. I'm talking about the way the ball was moved, the structure of our team and the increased commitment to defence through all positions.

If you honestly didn't see anything promising from those games - not even a skerrick of a fluid, coherent game plan or a consistent system of play - then I reckon you're the problem, not Dean Bailey.

I'm the problem with the club at the moment? Yeah, the club really doesn't need passionate members who paid a significant amount of their meagre income as teenagers on their membership but then carry their membership through for 9 consecutive years into their adult life... FFS

So you're saying that in 44 games of football you are excited about Bailey's future as coach because in 3.25 games we have looked OK (two of them against basket cases Freo and Richmond)? I realise that I'm banging my head against the wall here because we have probably about 90% of posters with blind faith in DB on here, but all I know is that when I go to the footy and I see the way that we have been playing it does not give me hope that when our young, talented list matures it will be a serious finals contender. I have not completely written off DB just yet, but I would hate for another meaningless year, this year is the one where we at least threaten to win a significant number of games and we see and cohesive game plan in action. I would hate to give him a premature contract extension just to stave off the media pressure when it could put the club back 1-2 years in its pursuit of a flag.

From your elevated position this year i think you will see a lot of DB's work come to fruition.

Hopefully I do, and hopefully by round 15 I'm riding the caboose of the DB bandwagon calling for a 2 year extension. Time will tell.

I'm the problem with the club at the moment? Yeah, the club really doesn't need passionate members who paid a significant amount of their meagre income as teenagers on their membership but then carry their membership through for 9 consecutive years into their adult life... FFS

That's not what I meant and I think you know that. Don't be disingenuous.

You said you hadn't seen anything in the games you had seen live that gave you any confidence Bailey was capable of building a successful team.

In response, I pointed out several patches of games in which the team had shown dramatic and significant improvement. Several others have agreed with my assessment.

The intent of my last comment was to suggest that you hadn't seen them because 1) you didn't understand what you were seeing or 2) you refused to acknowledge it.

No doubt the past two years have been frustrating and 2008 was an utter abomination. But to say that there have been no encouraging signs in that time paints you in a poor light as a supposedly intelligent football spectator.

And finally, some might have blind faith in Dean Bailey's methods but I'm not one of them. I believe I understand what's he's been trying to achieve in the past two years and I'm excited about what is in store in 2010.

However, there is no doubt that the team's performances need to improve significantly again this year if he is to survive past the mid-point of the 2011 season (presuming the mooted one-year extension is granted).

I'm the problem with the club at the moment? Yeah, the club really doesn't need passionate members who paid a significant amount of their meagre income as teenagers on their membership but then carry their membership through for 9 consecutive years into their adult life... FFS

So you're saying that in 44 games of football you are excited about Bailey's future as coach because in 3.25 games we have looked OK (two of them against basket cases Freo and Richmond)? I realise that I'm banging my head against the wall here because we have probably about 90% of posters with blind faith in DB on here, but all I know is that when I go to the footy and I see the way that we have been playing it does not give me hope that when our young, talented list matures it will be a serious finals contender. I have not completely written off DB just yet, but I would hate for another meaningless year, this year is the one where we at least threaten to win a significant number of games and we see and cohesive game plan in action. I would hate to give him a premature contract extension just to stave off the media pressure when it could put the club back 1-2 years in its pursuit of a flag.

You mention "when our young talented list Matures"...You do realize that if Bailey and the FD had not coached the way they have over the last 2 years We would not have half of those Talented Young players.

So please do not say the last 2 years were meaningless. Frustrating yes BUT not meaningless.

Richmond's last 2 years have been meaningless....There is a huge difference.

The jury is still out on DB, but he has earned the right to show what he can do with a list that he has had the guts to get.

The other point to consider is "Is there an outstanding coach waiting in the wings?"

A benefit of waiting an extra year is that coach's like Malthouse become available. Even Garry Lyon may have shown some talent or developed the urge to coach. I'm not saying that I want these guys, but it would be nice to have some options. You would also think that our list would be very attractive for a coach (this time)

I think you can add Liam Jurrah and Colin Sylvia to that list.

if jurrah and sylvia are amongst the top six then his point is proven beautifully.

sylvia has had a couple of amazing games in a reasonably solid season, for the first time in his career, and apart from potential and hope, there are no guarantees he will continue that form.

LJ looks to be a freak. In his limited AFL games he has shown that he can do the spectacular. He has played less than 10 games. Lets give him a chance to establish himself, and play with some consistency before he is named as one of our top 6.

these two may be stars in a couple of years. but until then they are just 'potential'.

if jurrah and sylvia are amongst the top six then his point is proven beautifully.

sylvia has had a couple of amazing games in a reasonably solid season, for the first time in his career, and apart from potential and hope, there are no guarantees he will continue that form.

LJ looks to be a freak. In his limited AFL games he has shown that he can do the spectacular. He has played less than 10 games. Lets give him a chance to establish himself, and play with some consistency before he is named as one of our top 6.

these two may be stars in a couple of years. but until then they are just 'potential'.

They are still arguably in the best six of a side atm with no stars. This may well change over this year with performances. But its a fair assessment of where the side is at and not an overstretch on individual players.

I know its only the Hun, but they claim at the bottom of this article that

Meanwhile, Melbourne will announce as early as next week that coach Dean Bailey has been given a contract extension of one year.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/kang...o-1225823873279