The nature of " the ship has turned" is to state the direction...not the destination.

"Turning the ship" is a metaphor for changing a trend. This is because ships are generally difficult to turn, they have a lot of inertia.

Despite your negativity, the trend has been positive since 2004 with the notable exception of the significant loss last year.

Furthermore, if we do make a profit this year, it is unclear whether this would be done in a sustainable manner.

This makes you "turning the ship" metaphor even less appropriate.

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I've wasted enough time on you two in the past. You have never been interested in the facts anyway.

AFL accounting is a dark art.

"Turning the ship" is a metaphor for changing a trend. This is because ships are generally difficult to turn, they have a lot of inertia.

Despite your negativity, the trend has been positive since 2004 with the notable exception of the significant loss last year.

Furthermore, if we do make a profit this year, it is unclear whether this would be done in a sustainable manner.

This makes you "turning the ship" metaphor even less appropriate.

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I've wasted enough time on you two in the past. You have never been interested in the facts anyway.

I don't know why you have to revert to dribble.

First of all, you have failed to recognise your "cagey comment" to 45hotgod16.

You seem to stick up alot for the past administration and play down any progress made by the current administration, led by Stynes & Schwab. You particularly prefer to recognise the Melbourne supporters for turning things around rather than acknowledge any work done by the current board. 45h is right on, that you tend to involve yourself in posting when these types of matters arise.

The trend may have been positive with "relatively" small profits since 2004, however the good work was undone by the massive blowout (perhaps by mismanagement) late by the previous administration before change over.

"Turning the ship" is a metaphor for changing a trend. This is because ships are generally difficult to turn, they have a lot of inertia.

who'd da thunk !! thanks awfully for clearing that up !!

Despite your negativity, the trend has been positive since 2004 with the notable exception of the significant loss last year.

didnt even take two sentences to contradict yourself....nicely done !!..oh...my negativity ??

Furthermore, if we do make a profit this year, it is unclear whether this would be done in a sustainable manner.

if...unclear... would... could you be more indecisive ?

This makes you "turning the ship" metaphor even less appropriate.

No its doesnt... we WERE headed in one direction.. documented in all forms of media....we are now heading in another. A view shared by the AFL and MCC...not just me

dribble.

thanks awfully for clearing that up

You are welcome, although I'm not sure you really understood what I meant by "trend".

Someone needs a nap

I think so.

You are welcome, although I'm not sure you really understood what I meant by "trend".

I understood

Seems to me certain people on this forum would make really good politicians. They re-write history, mangle the language, spin a point of view to suit their own vested interests and when challenged, under cover of "cowards castle" (see keyboard in this case) they stoop to insult.

The plain fact is we are in a far better position than we have been for quite some time and in no small way, that is attributable to Jimmy, his Board, C Schwab and his management team. For goodness sake, let's talk this up, not get bogged down in one up manship and hyperbole.

Go Dees!!!!

Well i'll take this with a grain of salt...and I dont recall any updates from the club announcing thtis as yet...but seems that we may have turned the corner and actually have a small working profit for this year.

Tucked away in the article by Caro (24/11) about Ball was this:

"Melbourne's financial constraints are more relaxed than in recent years. The club - under the one-year stewardship of chief executive Cameron Schwab - expected to announce a small profit for 2009. Having eradicated a further $1 million from its debt, the club remains beholden to the AFL and the MCG but has managed a positive result and has been buoyed by the new AFL stadium deal - worth $1 million to Melbourne retrospectively - along with a commercially much-improved 2010 fixture."

That bit in particular got my curiosity as I dont recall any retrospective component mentioned before...only going forwards.

What an amazing result. I was amongst the sceptics at first as to whether the Stynes brigade had the where-withall. After speaking with him I definitely got a distinctly different impression. Plaudits to Jim and Scwabby and their crew and the stewardship they have brought back to the club.

We'll look back one day and call these our rennaissance years !! Its been a long time since I felt this positve...and really positve...not just a self deluding fanciful type, about this club.

Timing is great...if we werent on our way now...well...lets not think about that

Go Dees

Excellent 'thread starter' Bub ....................... and I share your optimism for the future, despite the vagaries of accounting methods.

I well recall your considerable early sceptimism about the Stynes regime, and congratulate you for acknowledging it, and becoming an avid Stynes supporter. Too many around here are never prepared to admit to an error of judgement ........ and we all make them from time to time!

Now you mention this, sometimes this board is like question time.

The club is moving forward, we need our on field performance to catch up with our off field and we will really start to see big $$$ this will range from Sponsership $$$, increased membership(considering our last 2 years on field we shouldn't of had the growth in this area we have had) Attendances, merchandise sales

Excellent 'thread starter' Bub ....................... and I share your optimism for the future, despite the vagaries of accounting methods.

I well recall your considerable early sceptimism about the Stynes regime, and congratulate you for acknowledging it, and becoming an avid Stynes supporter. Too many around here are never prepared to admit to an error of judgement ........ and we all make them from time to time!

may I be allowed to suggest it wasnt so much judgement per se as we had so little to judge at that stage.. much the point. I was sceptical until convinced othherwise. Runs on the board have convinced me

Now you mention this, sometimes this board is like question time.

The club is moving forward, we need our on field performance to catch up with our off field and we will really start to see big $$$ this will range from Sponsership $$$, increased membership(considering our last 2 years on field we shouldn't of had the growth in this area we have had) Attendances, merchandise sales

The membership increase is a big plus, although we've got to make sure we continue to increase members rather than just having a temporary boost whilst the club is in trouble like the Kangas have.

I've wasted enough time on you two in the past. You have never been interested in the facts anyway.

Ooh, ooh, you wasted time on me too.

I grow weary of the debate though.

Needless to say I am satisfied we have cleared around $6m worth of debt since the early 90s.

Thanks go to ALL boards that have given their time and the fans who have given their money.

Needless to say I am satisfied we have cleared around $6m worth of debt since the early 90s.

Thanks go to ALL boards that have given their time and the fans who have given their money.

You'll get no debate from me on this score.

may I be allowed to suggest it wasnt so much judgement per se as we had so little to judge at that stage.. much the point. I was sceptical until convinced othherwise. Runs on the board have convinced me

You are certainly allowed to suggest that Bub, and if my memory serves me correctly, that was largely the flavour of your early posts about Jimmy and the new Board.

It's more important to look at the cashflow statement than the profit and loss that the club puts out.

The cash flows are what run the club, not arbitrary accounting treatments.

I don't believe the contributions were taken as revenue in the past, as we were still incurring large losses. The standard accounting treatment is to take them as revenue, although if they're for a particular project such as reducing the debt, they may not be. It depends on whether the club is treated as a not for profit entity or not.

The fact stands that we're reduced our debt. Either we've sold off assets (which I don't think we have), or we've generated funds in addition to our profit. We can't issue more equity, so those are the only alternatives.

Cashflow statements and profit and loss statements are interlinked. For a true picture of the operating situation you would look at both in conjunction with the balance sheet and accompanying notes.

All AFL Clubs are required by law to comply with Australian Accounting Standards. Under accounting standards "donations" or gifts are taken through the P/L regardless of their specific purpose or the profit status of the entity.

You are right we have reduced our debt. The debt proceeds of approx. $800k is income. The reduced debt over the past 2 years has indeed reduced our interest costs. Generation of increased revenues is to come from TV rights, memberships, sponsorship and the MCC. All four avenues need to be sustainably increased for us to be viable.

I suppose with the change of fortunes ( are we all on same page here ?? ) and a new , if hesistant confidence in our ongoing future that there comes hand in hand a degree of higher expectation.

There is I would think some ( to varying degrees) optimism that we ought to be able to make some sort of real fist of the ensuing opportunites that our list suggests. Theres an element of now or never approaching but either way there occurs a fantastic platform upon which new and exisiting sponsors can use to furher their own causes.

I sincerely doubt we will be a basket case as per last handful of seasons. We ought to be able to present in a competitive way and do any company proud by association. we will be under a lot of focus I sense as the non-melbourne world will be expecting some results

With better on filed success come the prizes of more membership..and possibly up-scaled memberships. Humans are humans... they like to be on winning sides.

I still have a gut feeling something will come out of all this China efforts for us...just not sure what..lol... But of all the teams in the AFL the name Melbourne will strike a big chord with China...we need to leverage it somehow.

i expect we will be able to charge better rates for our 1st tier sponsors when that time comes as we will become one of the flavours of the decade in this game

Eradication of debt is good this is to be commended the people who have contributed to this are incredible.

Continued subsidy by the AFL's special distribution fund is bad

I look forward to the day when my club can function independently of AFL assitance

I look forward to the day MFC returns to it's rightful place as the great club it once was.

We are walking that path but I'm not pulling out the champa's till we've made it.

I sincerely doubt we will be a basket case as per last handful of seasons.

If you are so confident about our current situation, why do you feel the need to erroneously crap on the club's efforts of the last few seasons?

Surely the current administration can stand on it's merits without having to re-write history to make it looks better?

(or perhaps you also think that the MFC was "nurturing a culture of exclusivity and ignorance towards women" before Jim came along?)

If you are so confident about our current situation, why do you feel the need to erroneously crap on the club's efforts of the last few seasons?

Surely the current administration can stand on it's merits without having to re-write history to make it looks better?

(or perhaps you also think that the MFC was "nurturing a culture of exclusivity and ignorance towards women" before Jim came along?)

you do talk some rubbish. Putting things into a context is hardly crapping erroneoulsy. How have I re-written history I ask.. ?/ dont say it show me...or shut up !!

You like to bring in irrelevancies dont you.

Can you stick to conversations.. or is that beyond you ??

you do talk some rubbish. Putting things into a context is hardly crapping erroneoulsy. How have I re-written history I ask.. ?/ dont say it show me...or shut up !!

You like to bring in irrelevancies dont you.

Can you stick to conversations.. or is that beyond you ??

You have re-written history by stating that the club has been a basket case over the last few seasons. This seems similar to when Jim said that the club was hostile to women when all evidence points to the contrary, i.e. you seem to be trying to crap on the club's recent history in order to make the current situation look better.

I thought that this was pretty obvious from my post.

You seem to want proof that the club was not a basket case over the last handful of seasons. I have already provided this proof by pointing out that the club made profits in '04, '05, '06 and '07. I would not equate this performance with being a "basket case" during the last "handful of seasons".

Now perhaps you would do me the same courtesy and explain you comments with similar factual reference?

Eradication of debt is good this is to be commended the people who have contributed to this are incredible.

Continued subsidy by the AFL's special distribution fund is bad

I look forward to the day when my club can function independently of AFL assitance

I look forward to the day MFC returns to it's rightful place as the great club it once was.

We are walking that path but I'm not pulling out the champa's till we've made it.

Whilst we shouldn't have to rely on the AFL's fund, the AFL should compensate clubs that they don't reward financially via the draw.

If they want to maximise revenue by giving the Pies etc plenty of Friday night games, then so be it, but clubs that don't get the prime time spots shouldn't have to miss out on revenue because of that.

Whilst we shouldn't have to rely on the AFL's fund, the AFL should compensate clubs that they don't reward financially via the draw.

If they want to maximise revenue by giving the Pies etc plenty of Friday night games, then so be it, but clubs that don't get the prime time spots shouldn't have to miss out on revenue because of that.

Absolutely, it is the reliance on donations that should be of greater concern.