LITTLE STINGA said:

Absolute disgraceful comment by Bailey as usual. If Scully and Trengove had a choice they wouldn't choose us they would choose a top team but they don't. Why give Ball the choice? If anyone thinks that players are desperate to come to us they have rocks in their head we have to sell, sell, sell. I can't believe they would give Ball an easy get out option.

Ball has a choice, Scully and Trengove don't. If Ball really doesn't want to play for the Dees than they have every reason to question picking him up, i mean why bring someone in who isn't 100% committed? Having said that, if he puts himself out there, be in PSD or the ND, then he is saying he is open slather and will be a professional wherever he goes.

  LITTLE STINGA said:

Absolute disgraceful comment by Bailey as usual. If Scully and Trengove had a choice they wouldn't choose us they would choose a top team but they don't. Why give Ball the choice? If anyone thinks that players are desperate to come to us they have rocks in their head we have to sell, sell, sell. I can't believe they would give Ball an easy get out option.

That is such a stupid thing to say. Picking up Ball when he doesn't want to play for us would be a the worst thing the FD could do.

  Pates said:

Ball has a choice, Scully and Trengove don't. If Ball really doesn't want to play for the Dees than they have every reason to question picking him up, i mean why bring someone in who isn't 100% committed? Having said that, if he puts himself out there, be in PSD or the ND, then he is saying he is open slather and will be a professional wherever he goes.

Bailey has given Ball a choice that he never should of got. He can now bypass us. It should of only been between the Saints and us now he has allowed another club in. I agree with the last sentence that's why it was a stupid unnecessary comment.

  belzebub59 said:

honestly... what are you on? Theres a vast difference between Scully?trengove situation as draftess and Ball as a mature ( doubtful ) senior player. bal canself determine... the draftess dont expect to... dont let those little things cloud your comments:rolleyes:

I'm glad you had had a go at me cause that means I'm right Miller lover.

  LITTLE STINGA said:

Bailey has given Ball a choice that he never should of got. He can now bypass us. It should of only been between the Saints and us now he has allowed another club in. I agree with the last sentence that's why it was a stupid unnecessary comment.

Bailey was just stating the facts, that if Ball wanted certainty in the future. The only club it potentially lets in is a club that Ball might not want. Collingwood are a long way off Ball in the PSD or ND options.

Ball always had that choice. I dont think MFC is giving him an easy option. I would be surprised if MFC had not conveyed the message to Connors (Ball's manager) that we were interested and that we have ND selection prior to Collingwood and that he has certainty of outcome and future in the PSD and not in the ND.

If he goes into the PSD, then I cant see how he can avoid MFC.

If he goes into the ND then its a lottery for his future.

At the moment he seems to be working to get back to St Kilda. We cant control that outcome. If his negotiations fail then he either runs the gauntlet in the ND or starts talking with MFC. I dont think it will be either

  Rhino Richards said:

Bailey was just stating the facts, that if Ball wanted certainty in the future. The only club it potentially lets in is a club that Ball might not want. Collingwood are a long way off Ball in the PSD or ND options.

Ball always had that choice. I dont think MFC is giving him an easy option. I would be surprised if MFC had not conveyed the message to Connors (Ball's manager) that we were interested and that we have ND selection prior to Collingwood and that he has certainty of outcome and future in the PSD and not in the ND.

If he goes into the PSD, then I cant see how he can avoid MFC.

If he goes into the ND then its a lottery for his future.

At the moment he seems to be working to get back to St Kilda. We cant control that outcome. If his negotiations fail then he either runs the gauntlet in the ND or starts talking with MFC. I dont think it will be either

The problem I have with it is if Ball goes into the draft some club is going to have to hold their ground and pick him up even though it is not his desired club or he goes to Collingwood. All Ball needs to say is no and we are out of the picture and then hope other clubs will buckle like Bailey did. Why didn't he say " I don't think that will happen if we get to talk to him" when SEN asked him "What if Ball says no". If I was Richmond or any club for the matter I'd be happy that he said that and would suddenly think we were a chance.

This rubbish about If he doesn't want to play for us so we don't want him is a joke. If we continue to go down this path we will only be able to pick up players from other clubs that are either not up to AFL standard or injury plagued.

Friday the 13th, how apt, this should all be over. St.Kilda will do their next list lodgement and I suspect Ball will be contracted and confirmed.

  LITTLE STINGA said:

The problem I have with it is if Ball goes into the draft some club is going to have to hold their ground and pick him up even though it is not his desired club or he goes to Collingwood. All Ball needs to say is no and we are out of the picture and then hope other clubs will buckle like Bailey did. Why didn't he say " I don't think that will happen if we get to talk to him" when SEN asked him "What if Ball says no". If I was Richmond or any club for the matter I'd be happy that he said that and would suddenly think we were a chance.

This rubbish about If he doesn't want to play for us so we don't want him is a joke. If we continue to go down this path we will only be able to pick up players from other clubs that are either not up to AFL standard or injury plagued.

Richmond or any other clubs would be fools to think that.

Your proposed answer does not address the question. The interviewer is going to say "So what if Ball says no after you talk to him?" I think Bailey's comments are plausible and sensible in the circumstances.

Why would we pick up players from other clubs that are not up to AFL standard or injury plagued? We dont recruit AFL players for the sake of doing so. I think that is more your issue.

You seem to be getting worked up by whatever you hear on SEN. Chill and change the dual.

  Redleg said:

Friday the 13th, how apt, this should all be over. St.Kilda will do their next list lodgement and I suspect Ball will be contracted and confirmed.

Agree. This is a long drawn out storm in a teacup.

  Rhino Richards said:

Agree. This is a long drawn out storm in a teacup.

Long and drawn out, yes. A farce? Probably. But it is a fairly major thing that could happen. A player of Ball's age, and record potentially dropping out of the club for free? In the context of the AFL and the MFC it is more than a storm in a teacup.

I share Little Stinga's frustration on the matter of Ball.

  LITTLE STINGA said:

I'm glad you had had a go at me cause that means I'm right Miller lover.

Im not quite sure how me , or anyone drawing attention to your lack of credible argument makes you right. As to be a Miller lover you obviously havent followed years of coments..lol. That coment alone holds you to ridicule. You patently have no idea about what you talk. Still youre providing some comical relief in this thread.

  JACKATTACK said:

Long and drawn out, yes. A farce? Probably. But it is a fairly major thing that could happen. A player of Ball's age, and record potentially dropping out of the club for free? In the context of the AFL and the MFC it is more than a storm in a teacup.

I share Little Stinga's frustration on the matter of Ball.

Get over it.

Unless he is prepared to meet with MFC then we are speculating over little. MFC have made an approach to his manager that MFC are interested and we have made numerous comments in the Press stating this.

MFC are on the rise.

It would be nice to get Ball, but that's all. MFC do not need him, and in 2/3 years (IMHO) he will find it tough to get a game. I'm over getting Ball.......Stuff him!

If Mitch Thorp can gel in to the team, he would be a better option for MFC in the psd. Then with pick 11, MFC could draft Tapscott (Trengove's best mate). Could be great to have mates learn AFL together, might make the transition alot easier.

The Bombers enter the mix.

Bombers join chase for Ball

Essendon confirms interest in Ball

In short Ess are poised to use their pick 26 gazumping Collingwood at 30 to pick up Ball.

As we have stated ( quite correctly for mine ) we wont bother with anyone whos not interested then Essendon will get Ball if they can agree to terms.

Gamer Over

  Rhino Richards said:

Get over it.

Well i'm sorry, I will make sure next time I align my interests and opinions with yours.

I'm not losing any sleep over it, but given the complete lack of any other football news around this time of year I think I am well within my rights to be interested in the spectacle.

And I am still curious at the situation where Ball, by showing preference for one club and disdain for others, could seemingly create himself a kind of pseudo free agency. I'm not suggesting he will or won't, or that we should or shouldn't, or that Bailey was wrong to say what he said (which he wasn't) i'm just interested in the apparent loophole.

I wonder what would happen if Collingwood had PSD pick2.

  JACKATTACK said:

I wonder what would happen if Collingwood had PSD pick2.

Thats a very interesting thought. However they dont.

Ball...for all his ( add or detract characteristics here ) is playing it for his own end. And he well right to. its his life. Id be working it also to my advantage even if skimming the outer grey areas of the rules etc. If that incurs defacto free agency by smoke and mirrors well then thats exactly what you do.

Im not keen on his/managers shenanagans with respect to how we are being treated but as to his availability of devices to get to where he might want to go ..so be it.

But yes...it would be entirely different if the Filth had an early PSD pick..... Woodn't it ...

I kind of understand what Little Stinga is saying, and I admit that I tend to agree with him.

It's all about perception, not about what we really will do which is almost irrelevant in this case. Ball has been presented a way out with his negotiations with us, publicly even. It's not the right way to go about it, well not my opinion anyway. We should be presenting a situation where if he leaves the Saints he will end up at Melbourne regardless of whether he goes via the psd or the Nov draft and then we should sell our club going forward.

I'm not having a Bailey bash session here, I like him as a coach and think he's doing great things, but in this situation we're coming across as the 'nice guys', we need to be more ruthless than that.

  JACKATTACK said:

Well i'm sorry, I will make sure next time I align my interests and opinions with yours.

Funny how a mod on this site gets all uppity when people don't agree with him. Even funnier how rarely people do...

The Ball thing is boring to me now, since it looks like even if he does somehow end up in our laps, we may not want him at all...

The Buckley thing is of more interest to me now in terms of our image in the comp. How we treat listed players is important when it comes to advertising to out of contract players from elsewhere. If Buckley leaves and feels communication wasn't up to scratch, then it doesn't paint us in a very good light. Ball not wanting to come here? Well, that's just one player's opinion from the outside looking in, and could very easily turn out to be a mistake. Buckley's dissatisfaction with his treatment is proof the footy department and club has to look at how it's dealing with its players.

Once they're contracted, they're not just assets. They're still people.

  belzebub59 said:

The Bombers enter the mix.

Bombers join chase for Ball

Essendon confirms interest in Ball

In short Ess are poised to use their pick 26 gazumping Collingwood at 30 to pick up Ball.

As we have stated ( quite correctly for mine ) we wont bother with anyone whos not interested then Essendon will get Ball if they can agree to terms.

Gamer Over

Personally I would have thought this is a good sign for us ... if its true ... sounds like talks might be breaking down at St Kilda ... or is one side trying to push the other to the negotiation table ... its all fun and games!

All said and done .... do you believe everything you read in the newspapers ... or is it

a/ lets make up a story time in a slow news week

or

b/ selected leak by one side to improve their position.

These types of scenarios are set to test us ... most people give up when it gets difficult ... wonder if our footy-department will mirror the views of our supporters .... ahhhh its all too hard time to give up.

I dont think so ... They will do their best until the final decision is made. If it goes our way great ... if it doesn't well so be it.

Personally I consider the fact that Ball is yet to sign with St.Kilda as a good sign.

The facts still remain, if St.Kilda and Ball can't sort their differences or if St.Kilda fails to offer a compeditive contract, Ball will end up a Demon. The fact that Ball has not said "No" to the Demons also further suggests this.

Ball wants to go to a team with its Premiership window open, he does not have a problem with Melbourne specifically just all bottom teams. Unfortunently for Luke Ball if he does not re-sign with the saints this is impossible and he will have to settle for a bottom team. He will have to settle with the Demons.

I still think Melbourne is a fair chance to pick Luke up.

  Jarka said:

I kind of understand what Little Stinga is saying, and I admit that I tend to agree with him.

It's all about perception, not about what we really will do which is almost irrelevant in this case. Ball has been presented a way out with his negotiations with us, publicly even. It's not the right way to go about it, well not my opinion anyway. We should be presenting a situation where if he leaves the Saints he will end up at Melbourne regardless of whether he goes via the psd or the Nov draft and then we should sell our club going forward.

I'm not having a Bailey bash session here, I like him as a coach and think he's doing great things, but in this situation we're coming across as the 'nice guys', we need to be more ruthless than that.

The other argument is that "we have standards". We're not so bad( and so desperate) that we'll stoop to pick up someone who doesn't want us. "We are on a winning path - and if you don't like it ( or are too stupid to see it) that's your bad luck "

Ball's value is not just tied to his ability to get his hands on the footy. Much of his potential value lies in his ability to mentor the younger players . A reluctant recruit who is not naturally switched on to the challenge of climbing the ladder, is less likely to be an effective mentor - in his first season at least - than someone who has let it be known that he is not interested.

With this I mind, I think DB is quite right to say that a reluctant Luke will not be good enough for the MFC.

If Ball fails to come to agreement with St.Kilda and can't get to a team with its Premiership window open (which he can't), Luke will no longer be reluctant to becoming a Demon.

  hoopla said:

The other argument is that "we have standards". We're not so bad( and so desperate) that we'll stoop to pick up someone who doesn't want us. "We are on a winning path - and if you don't like it ( or are too stupid to see it) that's your bad luck "

Ball's value is not just tied to his ability to get his hands on the footy. Much of his potential value lies in his ability to mentor the younger players . A reluctant recruit who is not naturally switched on to the challenge of climbing the ladder, is less likely to be an effective mentor - in his first season at least - than someone who has let it be known that he is not interested.

With this I mind, I think DB is quite right to say that a reluctant Luke will not be good enough for the MFC.

tend to side with this view.

Some say ..oh well..all its not across the line with StKilda so we suddenly in the mix again. Im starting to think we have never been in the mix and it was purely one sided lust on our part jumping the gun and now looking pretty stupid for it. Any salvagable dignity can only be mustered by putting down the Ball and stepping away !!

Ball will view Essendon much more favourably than us..as they are seen as some sort of up-and-comers and a power club. Seems like to some we only fill the ranks...forgetting we invented the bloody thing <_<

Quite frankly ..id almost be tempted as the MFC to issue a statement all and sundry exactly what they can do. But thats no entirely the best tact...even if tempting.

If he has the slightest modicum of interest in joining Melbourne then it would all be over and done with. He'd be out on the track with gusto taking the role on with full endeavour..showing us all how its done. He hasnt, he isnt and he wont.

Im actually starting to think he's actually incapable of it, that he feels that too much expectation and limelight would be cast upon him and he just reckons hes going to come a cropper.

If he was to stay with the Saints youd think that would have all been ironed out by now. I mean honestly...we arent designing skyscrapers or sending a rocket to mars...it s workplace agreement and all parties know where they are coming from.

I think he genuinely still harbours some hope of getting to Collingwood and if not maybe the Bumbers might be a decent second best.

He wont be a Demon...and that might just be a good thing B) That might free up other options which might have better benefits all things considered

  Grand New Flag said:

If Ball fails to come to agreement with St.Kilda and can't get to a team with its Premiership window open (which he can't), Luke will no longer be reluctant to becoming a Demon.

Not that I care, but if he nominates for the ND, the interesting thing could be which team is prepared to take him despite his preferences and at what pick.

Some have suggested that Essendon would use 26, just ahead of Collingwood. Are there clubs that would use a higher pick such as Port with 16 who would see him as some compensation for Burgoyne leaving. Ball and his Manager will have to play a game of Russian Roulette if he goes into the ND.

I still think this will be resolved by friday when the next list lodgement is due.

If Luke Ball enters the National draft and he lasts at pick 18, the MFC selects him, regardless of whether he wants to play at Melbourne or not. End of story.

I don't give a fats rats if he wants to play at Essendon or Magpies.

What's that saying - 'best available'.

  Bring-Back-Powell said:

If Luke Ball enters the National draft and he lasts at pick 18, the MFC selects him, regardless of whether he wants to play at Melbourne or not. End of story.

I don't give a fats rats if he wants to play at Essendon or Magpies.

What's that saying - 'best available'.

We wouldn't do that! .... or would we? Its pay to play Essendon!!