Dean Bailey

[rpfc 28,247]

Gary Lyon will be the next Melb coach...2011/2012 is my prediction

Thanks, Caro.

[45HG 1,539]

I don't really see why you assume that will magically start happening next year.

Technically, our team will be less experienced and much of our team will be made up of very young players with less than 15 games experience - Maric, Watts, Grimes, Jurrah, Blease, Strauss, (Trengove?), Mckenzie, McNamara etc.

Plus Aussie and Garland after missing a year.

Next year and probably the next year will still be teaching years, it's just the players will slowly be getting used to exercising their knowledge and bringing it to good use.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

No The coaching he is actually being judged on has been happening for two years already.

And Fact - You with 10 years experience in the News room should know better than to label something as "Fact" when it is not.

.

This sides progress to a successful team wont be as quick as a 2 minute cup a soup!

Bailey will have less experienced team next year and will be blooding at least 6 future stars next year that have either not played AFL or played precious little. I want him to develop them as footballers not chew them through for cheap victories.

He does need to show improvement next year in the players but some of that will not be readily apparent on the scoreboard. This is still a very green team with little experience at the top.

I think Bob and I have been around the block a few times to know how the media (mis) behaves. Its not an exclusive the the media room old boys club.

Bob has nailed the issue well

Good. Well back him on terms the Club will at least have some negotiating leverage. And also do it in good faith given the sh!t Bailey has had to deal with off the field and the dedication he has put into a long term plan.

If you dont act on this belief then his manager will hold you over a barrel. And dont the media love a footy dept that sits on its hands while Rome burns!

No i don't think Bailey has been judged at all yet, it got a little nasty after the Collingwood game this year, but Richmonds mess took over thankfully.

Anyway this discussion is circuliar-I am not bagging Dean at all. I know he is going to coach a premiership side.

3 years is a long time to live in the cellar in this game, & yes i understand the ND cleanout & Aftermath.

Position 8-10 next year can be achieved if we have a good run with injury.

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

If Bailey looks for wins next year it will be far from selfish on his behalf.

Who said anything about Trading Picks for old Hack Quick Fixes??

If he knew that he needed to produce results next year or get the sack, then why wouldn't you make sure you gave yourself every possible opportunity. After all, Terry Wallace did exactly that by picking up Ben Cousins, Chris Connolly picked up Dean Solomon, Heath Black and Chris Tarrant, Mark Williams picking up Josh Carr. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that a coach would coach selfishly if he feels like his job is under threat?

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

If he knew that he needed to produce results next year or get the sack, then why wouldn't you make sure you gave yourself every possible opportunity. After all, Terry Wallace did exactly that by picking up Ben Cousins, Chris Connolly picked up Dean Solomon, Heath Black and Chris Tarrant, Mark Williams picking up Josh Carr. Why is it unreasonable to suggest that a coach would coach selfishly if he feels like his job is under threat?

Because it doesn't work, that's why. we all know that. The 3 Clubs you mention are all in for cold days.

Pre season will start early again this year, a lot of the young kids will have their first real preparation.

I am not talking about Flogging the life out of these kids, i just believe they can play at a level some on here don't next year.

Sure there will be dips but that doesn't mean we can't aim to win around 50% of our games.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No i don't think Bailey has been judged at all yet, it got a little nasty after the Collingwood game this year, but Richmonds mess took over thankfully.

Doesn't that highlight how fickle and out of the know the "Football public". And Richmond's occurred because they equivocated over their coaching.

Anyway this discussion is circuliar-I am not bagging Dean at all. I know he is going to coach a premiership side.

Hell, I dont know that at all. I am not sure he will be a long term or premiership coach. That's why I am extending his contract by only one year. Your more confident about Dean than I am...but you wont extend his contract because you're not sure he is a successful. I have not been in a news room before but I can sure smell a contradiction a mile off. And its not a circular reference at all. And no one is bagging Dean

3 years is a long time to live in the cellar in this game, & yes i understand the ND cleanout & Aftermath.

So why raise it? Its not relevant if you believe Bails to be a premiership coach.

Position 8-10 next year can be achieved if we have a good run with injury.

Then why not extend for one year now because if Bails is on track to achieve an 8 to 10 finish and if he is looking like a final prospect, you are going to have to pay plenty and long term ( 2 to 3 years) for him. 8 to 10 position is likely to involve 10 to 13 wins.

FWIW, you are going to be mightly dissappointed next year. I reckon this side is good for 6 to 8 wins. Anything more is a bonus. You are going to be very depressed next year. Either extend him or sack him now.

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

You believe that we should maintain our aim of a premiership in the future. So we should give Bailey the best chance to do that and make sure that we remove any temptation there is to aim for short term success.

If the choice is between losing your coaching career or flogging the kids for a year before they can take it, then surely it isn't unforseeable that that option may be taken.

You're telling me that trading in the short term doesn't work. Exactly!!! That's why we should give the extension so that Bailey can keep with the plan. We don't want to put him in a position where he has to choose.

[Dee tention 616]

Dee's let loose! Will make finals next season if our keys can stay injury. Youngsters to flourish early.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

Then why not extend for one year now because if Bails is on track to achieve an 8 to 10 finish and if he is looking like a final prospect, you are going to have to pay plenty and long term ( 2 to 3 years) for him. 8 to 10 position is likely to involve 10 to 13 wins.

FWIW, you are going to be mightly dissappointed next year. I reckon this side is good for 6 to 8 wins. Anything more is a bonus. You are going to be very depressed next year. Either extend him or sack him now.

Because RR at this point nobody REALLY knows if he can coach match day Strategies yet, including Him.

I would hang out on the extention till next year to keep him Hungry if you like, only to push himself.

Everyone at Melbourne has to prove themselves, that's not always a bad thing you know.

To me Dean comes across as a guy who relishes a challenge, so i would challenge him.

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

Just cliches - 'hungry', 'push himself', 'prove themselves', 'relish a challenge', 'challenge him. It was only a 4 line post! :D

Worst case scenario is that we have a highly rated player developer work with our young side for a year longer. And we won't be a premiership team in 2011 anyway so I'd prefer the player developer anyway!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Because RR at this point nobody REALLY knows if he can coach match day Strategies yet, including Him.

I would hang out on the extention till next year to keep him Hungry if you like, only to push himself.

Everyone at Melbourne has to prove themselves, that's not always a bad thing you know.

To me Dean comes across as a guy who relishes a challenge, so i would challenge him.

But you think he is a long term coach at Melbourne. You have said he is going to be a premiership coach. You think position 8 to 10 is achievable if injury dont affect us. So how can you say that if you have no faith in his match day tactics?? Serious lack of credibiility coming through WYL.

Dont you think he has been pushing himself trying to turn over a crud list in a Club that has been a disaster off the field. How much friggin challenge can you give a bloke??

If you cant work out what Bailey's done to date as a basis for making a decision then sack him now because you want have a clue in the middle of next year particularly with the press at your door.

Far from giving him a challenge, you are handing him an insult. Especially if you try the "I think you're premiership coach" bullsh!t. And if he is going to get MFC to the metrics you set he is going to hold you for high ransom for re signing. And so he should. And you will look a goose if you dont sign him and a sitting duck if you do. And if I was a Board member I would be very disturbed with the implications for the Club of your line of thinking. It makes no sense and lacks foresight.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

But you think he is a long term coach at Melbourne. You have said he is going to be a premiership coach. You think position 8 to 10 is achievable if injury dont affect us. So how can you say that if you have no faith in his match day tactics?? Serious lack of credibiility coming through WYL.

Dont you think he has been pushing himself trying to turn over a crud list in a Club that has been a disaster off the field. How much friggin challenge can you give a bloke??

If you cant work out what Bailey's done to date as a basis for making a decision then sack him now because you want have a clue in the middle of next year particularly with the press at your door.

Far from giving him a challenge, you are handing him an insult. Especially if you try the "I think you're premiership coach" bullsh!t. And if he is going to get MFC to the metrics you set he is going to hold you for high ransom for re signing. And so he should. And you will look a goose if you dont sign him and a sitting duck if you do. And if I was a Board member I would be very disturbed with the implications for the Club of your line of thinking. It makes no sense and lacks foresight.

RR I get back to what i said this morning, This club has been perceived by many including some supporters over the years as a soft Target for 45 odd years. I want to change that like we all do.

I do rate Bailey very highly, but so far he has been a teacher, & in a lot of ways had to hold the reins back for the Betterment of the club,

next Year there will be more match day strategy.

Let me ask you something...Have you ever worked Harder & actually over acheived in a task if a carrot is dangled in front of you???

I have....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

RR I get back to what i said this morning, This club has been perceived by many including some supporters over the years as a soft Target for 45 odd years. I want to change that like we all do.

I do rate Bailey very highly, but so far he has been a teacher, & in a lot of ways had to hold the reins back for the Betterment of the club,

next Year there will be more match day strategy.

Let me ask you something...Have you ever worked Harder & actually over acheived in a task if a carrot is dangled in front of you???

I have....

More Cliches - Soft target for 45 odd years. Perceived by many. Dangling a carrot.

Your original argument has been shown up for what it is. Its should not be about making a stand to suit your fears of perception.

I wonder how you repeatedly rate Bailey highly when you cant make an assessment of him in critical areas or are not prepared to back him as Coach for an extra year. Bizarre. You dont back him at all. Its fluff and only you believe it.

There is match day strategy now. You have missed it. As part of the development of these players they are being played in a range of positions to teach them valuable football lessons. They are on a long education process that will continue next year. And you know what you wont see the match strategies then either.

He has spent two years trying to develop this side from nothing. He has the carrot but needs the surety to continue the process. Yours is more of the same with unrealistic expectations that will involve the comprising of the long term development for a short term goal. Its not a matter of holding a carrot...its more like a gun to the head.

You are offering only a compromised target to allow you a feel good metric to be ultimately done over when it comes to renegotiating a contract next year without any focus on the longer term. If I were Bailey I would not only screw up the price I would be making sure that Board were aware of your efforts to tamper with the long term development plans. And if position 8 to 10 was achievable, your position would be very unsafe. There is no carrot just another of your cliches which clouds better judgement.

[Sir Why You Little 36,954]

He has spent two years trying to develop this side from nothing. He has the carrot but needs the surety to continue the process. Yours is more of the same with unrealistic expectations that will involve the comprising of the long term development for a short term goal. Its not a matter of holding a carrot...its more like a gun to the head.

You are offering only a compromised target to allow you a feel good metric to be ultimately done over when it comes to renegotiating a contract next year without any focus on the longer term. If I were Bailey I would not only screw up the price I would be making sure that Board were aware of your efforts to tamper with the long term development plans. And if position 8 to 10 was achievable, your position would be very unsafe. There is no carrot just another of your cliches which clouds better judgement.

No i am not holding a gun to anybody, you completely miss my point. But we just see things differently obviously.

Of course Dean has been coaching over the last two years, both in the box & at his Media conferences-Dam good job he has done too.

But from next year his coaching will enter new levels. Using those Strategies he has taught, he will start to use them on Match days to hopefully win games, & not just Draft Picks. Totally different situation.

Whats wrong with reviewing his position after QB next year? I will bet my balls he will keep it, but a mid season review is good business to me.

[rpfc 28,247]

What if next year is a wash - 7 and 15?

Some good, some bad but Bailey gets a 3 year extension.

That is more of a gamble than a year extension right now.

Give him two years, from now, to see if he can coach.

It is the prudent step, and whispers around the traps say it is what is about to happen.

[H_T 3,043]

Yes. Good Call.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No i am not holding a gun to anybody, you completely miss my point. But we just see things differently obviously.

Of course Dean has been coaching over the last two years, both in the box & at his Media conferences-Dam good job he has done too.

But from next year his coaching will enter new levels. Using those Strategies he has taught, he will start to use them on Match days to hopefully win games, & not just Draft Picks. Totally different situation.

Whats wrong with reviewing his position after QB next year? I will bet my balls he will keep it, but a mid season review is good business to me.

No. Your just not seeing things at all.

His coaching will be the same as it has been to keep developing the kids. Next year he has at least half a dozen players playing their first full season who will arguably be best 22. Watts, Blease, Strauss, Scully, Trengove, Pick 18, Jurrah and Spencer...I have given you 8. If think that alot changes from last year your fooled easily. We will struggle again next year with greater glimmers of hope.

What do you expect to know now at QBW next year that will give you comfort to givev Bailey a three year contract out to 2013. If he reaches your misguided metric he will demand nothing less and you are in a worse position.

I and others have clearly outlined what the issues are about QBW next year. CLearly you dont read and much prefer to switch the mind off on cliches which prevent you from thinking clearly through the issues. You can bet your balls all you like but you will be left a eunich after the negotiations with a bigger risk exposure. What happens if things start going south in 2011? What if Bailey cant take a maturing group from the development phase in 2011- 2012? What are you going to do then? Shift your head in the sand a little. You will be screwed at the most critical part of your 7 year window and paying top dollar in the process. Great outcome for a Club that's broke and living on AFL handouts. Good business. Oh dear.

You complain of MFC being a soft target and your thinking would leave MFC with all the hallmarks of a sporting marshmallow. I am sure Schwab and Co have more sense and savvy than shown here.

[CarnTheDees 52]

A challenge to anyone out there - give me a 15-or-less word summary of Bailey's game plan. I'm curious as to how people see the way that we've played over the last 2 years and how they think/guess that we might play next year.

eg:

Pagan - Long and direct, open forward-line.

Roos - Contested footy, hard tackling, man-on-man. Defence-focussed.

Thompson - Run-and-carry, lots of handball, hard running both ways, goal-kicking midfield.

Knights (so far) - All-out attack, back your pace.

Clarkson - Rolling zone, clog the centre of the ground.

As a pre-emption to those who will try to attack these examples rather than answer the question (as is the wont of a certain few around here), YES I DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT OFTEN DEPENDS ON THE TEAM/KEY PLAYERS THAT YOU HAVE.

But so far we have a very young side with no real strengths - so give me your interpretation on how Bailey is coaching these guys to play footy.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rather than hijack the thread onto game plans, do you think you will be in a better position to answer that question after 11 rounds next year when we will still have a younger side with still developing strengths in order for you to make a longer term commitment to Bailey? I doubt it but go ahead and try.

[MikeyJ 60]

A challenge to anyone out there - give me a 15-or-less word summary of Bailey's game plan. I'm curious as to how people see the way that we've played over the last 2 years and how they think/guess that we might play next year.

I suspect Bailey is trying to engineer something like this:

Tall, versatile and mobile defenders that can use the ball by hand or foot (Warnock, Garland, Martin) to release running half-backs.

The half-backs (Bennell, Strauss, Green, Grimes) will then combine with the mids to move the ball at pace through the corridor (or as close as possible to it), predominantly with handball, until they reach a point about 70m out.

Then it's up to the mids (Sylvia, McLean, Davey, Jones, Scully, Bruce, Moloney, Morton) to choose the right option to hit a forward (Jurrah, Watts, Bate or Aussie). Should the field open up, some mids will have a licence to shoot themselves (Sylvia, Davey, Jones, Bruce, Morton).

It sounds simple but in reality, we look to be adopting the Swans' movement out of defence, the Cats' slick movement through the middle of the ground and the Hawks' preference for using tall forwards. Needless to say, this has to be coupled with an appetite for the contest that matches the likes of the Swans and the Saints.

This game plan has been evident several times this season - most notably in the first quarter against Collingwood earlier in the year and the first half in our win against Richmond. Those who complain that there is no game plan haven't been looking for it.

Finally, I'd give Bailey a one-year extension now. It allows him to coach without pressure next year and the heat will be brought to bear in 2011, when he should have a side capable of contending for a finals berth.

As it should be.

[Pipefitter 2,149]

Personally I think pushing for finals will be the only thing acceptable. When you think we prob could have won 7-8 games this year if we hadnt of tanked, then 9-10 wins next year is an improvement. Anyone agree?

[Cranky Franky 2,029]

I can't think of any instances where Clubs have suffered by NOT giving serving coaches contract extensions in a timely fashion.

I CAN think of lots of examples when Clubs have been burned by prematurely extending coaching contracts - Us with Bob Skilton in 1976 & Daniher in 2004.

I'm sure Richmond regretted giving Wallace 5 years. 3 or 4 weeks is a long time in football.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

The reality suggests that next year we will be in stage 2 of the re-building process.

I have been bagged on this forum before for saying we need to display a new "culture" on the footy field. 6 to 8 wins should be and is a realistic target, but to me, more importantly, what I would like to see next year is improvement in these areas. I think, even with our depleted list in the second half of the year, the signs are already there.

1. More on-field leadership shown by players who have a year or 2 under their belts.

2. An evident improvement in disposal skills

3. A forward structure that is multi-dimensional.

While the list is young, the calibre of recent and new recruits that we will have suggests that Dean Bailey will have perhaps one of the best young lists to work with than the majority of AFL lists. If there is a discernible improvement in these areas, then DB deserves to have his contract extended for another 2 years. If not, it will be time to look elsewhere.

[Still Waiting 94]

Bailey is under as much pressure as any AFL coach, no more/no less. This is why coaches get paid big dollars and will admit that there is not really any longish term security in being an AFL senior coach. So far he has done a fairly good job but, needs the results to improve steadily early in 2010, to be given an extension. Remember that we will have an even less experienced side in 2010 and in most cases 30-40 games of real game time is needed before player consistency sets in.

I would go and try to get Alan Richardson in as player development guru, so as to enable DB to concentrate more on team goals and results. AR is the bees knees in this area and is an extemely astute game day man to boot.

Our young team needs to rapidly improve disposal skills and look to emulating those of Aaron Davey. Whilst this is a big ask, it is absolutely imperative if we are to stop our massive turnover stats. AR can help here, especially with all players under 21 or less than ,say, 20 games.

DB can be a successful Demon coach, but, needs to further address our weaknesses before much improvement happens.

All the young superstars that we get onboard are fine, however they need to be coached and taught that to be successful you have to work harder and harder. We still have a few players that need to have this reinforced.

DB is working on all of this but with someone like AR around, who has many years of player development at different clubs under his belt, results are likely to improve more quickly.

Not sure about our fitness staff either as well as injury management. Needs to improve markedly. Strength and conditioning is just passable and also needs attention.

The general consensus seems to be we are on the right track and that we will just get a lot better naturally. This is far from reality. Change needs to happen quickly and results have to improve or coach and some players may find themselves expendable within 12 months.

I expect at a minimum 4 wins from the 1st 1/2 of 2010 or change must/will happen.

[45HG 1,539]

To me it makes more sense to give him a one year contract extension now, before finals that will be noticed by few, to see what he can do with the list over the next two years and then be able to evaluate, rather than wait until next year where there will be an enormous amount of pressure on a young coach and young list to perform beyound their years.

Giving him a one year in that situation will be perceived horribly IMO