Tanking Solution

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I don't know if this has ever been raised? If it has I apologise.

How about having a draft ladder which is taken from the results from mid season - mid season, rather than working off the end of season ladder. To me it makes sense and it is an easy solution.

Any issues with it?

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

[Mod Edit: Please extract head from sphincter and stop posting crap, ta]

Edited July 24, 2009 by Nasher

[e25 5]

I don't know if this has ever been raised? If it has I apologise.

How about having a draft ladder which is taken from the results from mid season - mid season, rather than working off the end of season ladder. To me it makes sense and it is an easy solution.

Any issues with it?

It'd just make teams tank earlier in the season. The problem is that the incentive to tank is far too great, ie. the prize of an extra pick before the first round.

And imagine the furore if Melb had've been awarded pick 1&2 at midseason then rattled off 6 wins.

I can see 3 possible options:

- Remove the priority pick before the 1st round, only keeping the one that follows the first round.

- Remove all priority picks.

- Have a lottery for the bottom 8 teams with any pre-1st Round priority picks being included in said lottery. I think if you stood to only acquire picks 8 & 9 by tanking it would solve the problem.

[John Dee 445]

I can see 3 possible options:

- Remove the priority pick before the 1st round, only keeping the one that follows the first round.

- Remove all priority picks.

- Have a lottery for the bottom 8 teams with any pre-1st Round priority picks being included in said lottery. I think if you stood to only acquire picks 8 & 9 by tanking it would solve the problem.

The draft is fine; just get rid of priority picks. The only reason the debate about tanking exists is the 16 point limit above which you do not get a priority pick. Without that, this would be a non issue.

I would advocate keeping the draft asis and scrapping the automatic priority pick. The commission could sit after the final round and allocate any priority picks they might deem nescessary.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

Thats what i think too undeeniable, scrap the priority pick altogether.

[H_T 3,049]

It'd just make teams tank earlier in the season. The problem is that the incentive to tank is far too great, ie. the prize of an extra pick before the first round.

And imagine the furore if Melb had've been awarded pick 1&2 at midseason then rattled off 6 wins.

I can see 3 possible options:

- Remove the priority pick before the 1st round, only keeping the one that follows the first round.

- Remove all priority picks.

- Have a lottery for the bottom 8 teams with any pre-1st Round priority picks being included in said lottery. I think if you stood to only acquire picks 8 & 9 by tanking it would solve the problem.

Correct.

I'd firstly remove all the Priority Picks. Then assess.

Introduce some form of lottery system for the bottom 4 or 8 teams. (undecided)

Also introduce a staggered prize money system for all teams finishing in order from 1 to 17/18 (eventually), with prize money being scaled down from 1st to 18th. So there is incentive to finish higher for more prizemoney.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

Thats what i think too undeeniable, scrap the priority pick altogether.

after the demons get it.

[Pello 1]

The prospect of tanking will never be completely eliminated even if the PP was removed. Teams would still tank to get to the bottom of the ladder to get the 1st pick. It's just that the tanking issue would not be so widespread and maybe only 1 or 2 teams will be interested in tanking.

I think the PP should remain but only be given in limited circumstances such as when a team finishes last 2 seasons in a row.

Otherwise no other PP's.

[e25 5]

Also introduce a staggered prize money system for all teams finishing in order from 1 to 17/18 (eventually), with prize money being scaled down from 1st to 18th. So there is incentive to finish higher for more prizemoney.

The prize money idea is a winner -- would it change our collective minds on tanking if the club stood to earn a further $200K by winning more games and finishing 3 or 4 places higher - ??

I'm surprised this system has never been introduced.

BUT... it would make the strong teams stronger, the weak teams weaker, etc.

With impending free agency that money could make a huge difference. In the end I think the AFL would start to resemble the EPL.

I think there just needs to be some extra incentive to finish higher on the ladder.

[Yze_Magic 3]

The PP should remain, but at the end of Round 1 only.

Not before the start of he draft.

Of course teams tank if they are going to get pick 1 and 2!!

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

The PP I think was introduced in 2007 and the tanking issue has raised its ugly head ever since. I think 3 poss solutions

1 Mid season Pick... teams are not going to tank from round 1 and unlikely to have a winning streak straight after

2 Delete PP altogether

3 A PP lottery between the bottom 4 teams

[drdrake 3,187]

Everyone has blown the tanking issue out, the AFL is stuck because so many clubs have benefitted from the Priority draft pick. Look at the current top 4, Bulldogs, Collingwood, St Kilda have Priority picks, work your way down the ladder, Carlton, Hawthorn the same. If they get rid of this pick clubs like Melbourne, Fremantle, West Coast, Richmond who for the past two years have been very poor will spend a longer period down the bottom, the draft is designed to ensure this doesn't happen and each club will spend time in the bottom four as well as the top four over a certain period of time.

The AFL changed the rule a few years back when Melbourne one year and Collingwood the next had very poor years caused by injury, the year before that they both played finals and in Melb case the next three years after 2003 we played finals. The system is fine clubs that get these picks are usually in dire need for them just like we are now.

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

The prize money idea is a winner -- would it change our collective minds on tanking if the club stood to earn a further $200K by winning more games and finishing 3 or 4 places higher - ??

I'm surprised this system has never been introduced.

BUT... it would make the strong teams stronger, the weak teams weaker, etc.

With impending free agency that money could make a huge difference. In the end I think the AFL would start to resemble the EPL.

I think there just needs to be some extra incentive to finish higher on the ladder.

that systems never been introduced because clubs like say WC or the blues mite be encouraged to gamble on there ladder positions, that system would open up a whole new playing field.

[e25 5]

Everyone has blown the tanking issue out, the AFL is stuck because so many clubs have benefitted from the Priority draft pick. Look at the current top 4, Bulldogs, Collingwood, St Kilda have Priority picks, work your way down the ladder, Carlton, Hawthorn the same. If they get rid of this pick clubs like Melbourne, Fremantle, West Coast, Richmond who for the past two years have been very poor will spend a longer period down the bottom, the draft is designed to ensure this doesn't happen and each club will spend time in the bottom four as well as the top four over a certain period of time.

The AFL changed the rule a few years back when Melbourne one year and Collingwood the next had very poor years caused by injury, the year before that they both played finals and in Melb case the next three years after 2003 we played finals. The system is fine clubs that get these picks are usually in dire need for them just like we are now.

I think this is true but the biggest team they are concerned will suffer is none other than the Sydney Swans.

[H_T 3,049]

The PP should remain, but at the end of Round 1 only.

Not before the start of he draft.

Of course teams tank if they are going to get pick 1 and 2!!

But YM there would still be incentive for teams to "list manage"(tank) with 3 picks in the first 20...it would still continue IMO. (ie. getting 1,17,18)

Edited July 24, 2009 by High Tower

[e25 5]

But YM there would still be incentive for teams to "list manage"(tank) with 3 picks in the first 20...it would still continue IMO. (ie. getting 1,17,18)

Much much less incentive imo.

And if some teams are willing to tank for another pick at around 20 i'm happy to let them.

[H_T 3,049]

Much much less incentive imo.

And if some teams are willing to tank for another pick at around 20 i'm happy to let them.

Much less, but it's still there. It's like 'us' last year. Watts, Blease Strauss.

[e25 5]

Much less, but it's still there. It's like 'us' last year. Watts, Blease Strauss.

Well I think we were lucky it was touted as a deep draft.

This year's apparently isn't and I'd be surprised if the player we get around the pick 18 mark is better than either Blease or Strauss.

The thing is, its all a roll of the dice, but your chances go up considerably when you are picking in the top 3. By late first-round you're getting into real hit & miss territory.

[H_T 3,049]

Well I think we were lucky it was touted as a deep draft.

By late first-round you're getting into real hit & miss territory.

True, but at the end of the day it's probably regarded as a slight advantage to have 3 picks in the top 20, or 4 in top 35/36, rather than 2.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

Just get rid of all priority picks... after this year

(we don't need to tank, just get all our battle-weary older players to the medicos nice and early, so they're ready for a full pre-season. And blood as many youngsters as possible, again so they're as ready as possible with as much experience as possible for next season. And sit back, chill with lots of frothies, and watch what happens B) )

[Demondeb 8]

It was suggested to me by my good mate Tarax, and not sure if I posted this here or on Demonology but if you scrubbed the PP (after t his year of course!) and then the bottom six would fight it out for #1. The winner of the prize would be the team with the highest points/percentage at end of Rd 22 for that group.

This would ensure that all teams were still trying to win right up to the end and make for better games.

Highest % and Points #1

2nd High #2

etc

etc

What do you all think?????

[Demon trucker 1,800]

The prospect of tanking will never be completely eliminated even if the PP was removed. Teams would still tank to get to the bottom of the ladder to get the 1st pick. It's just that the tanking issue would not be so widespread and maybe only 1 or 2 teams will be interested in tanking.

I think the PP should remain but only be given in limited circumstances such as when a team finishes last 2 seasons in a row.

Otherwise no other PP's.

IF you got rid of the pp there will be no tanking because there is no difference between 1st pick and second just look at how many 1st picks have been superstars compared with pick number 2 not many anyone of the first 5 picks in a draft can became a superstar is judd a number one pick no is salwood a number 1 pick no is buddy a number one pick. no these three players are in the top 10 players in the afl and all three are picks 3,5,7, in there own draft. So history tells as there is no difference the pp is a big advantage as it gives a club two picks in the top 5 now that is a to big of a carrot. now the afl wont get rid of the pp because of the two new teams if they fail in there first two seasons then they will get the pp.

[Demon Disciple 12,284]

It doesn't matter if the priority picks are taken away, tanking will still exist. Even without the PP's clubs near the bottom of the ladder near years end will want to 'list manage', so they can get the highest possible draft pick.

Point in case, Scully is seen as the clear no.1 draft pick in this years draft. Without PP's, there will still be a race between clubs like us, Freo and WCE to try and get the no.1 pick to draft him with.

Tanking will never be totally eradicated, as a team that is not in a position to play finals will 'list manage' and play the younger kids to give them experience, in order to fast track their development, for a team to fast track their own development in order to compete in the finals.

Like posted on another thread, tanking can be classified as occurring on match days, outside of it could be deemed as 'list managing'. In order to prevent tanking perhaps extremely harsh penalties should be applied, but then how does one go about classifying what a 'tank' is. Therein lies the problem, and it will never be totally eradicated.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

but then how does one go about classifying what a 'tank' is.

Solution: just get the experts to draft a definition... CARLTANK. They know every trick there is.

(I'll never forget that most dreadful game I've ever watched, last round of 2007. Atmosphere? pungent!)

[Sir Why You Little 37,193]

2 potential ways to stop "Tanking"

1. The AFL should award considerable cash rewards for end of season Ladder position.

with large increments for each rung higher up.

2. High percentage at years end taken into account with earning Draft Picks (A team may not win many games, but have a high percentage. That Team should be rewarded.)

At Present the Ladder positions at the bottom are governed by negativity. This needs to become Positive Driven.

Edited July 24, 2009 by why you little