Casey Scorpions v Werribee Tigers - colours & squads

[Freak 100]

interestingly, it s probably the worst game Newton has played for a month. cant believe Watts was promoted before him. wth

[Jaded No More 68,867]

cant believe Watts was promoted before him. wth

It's because Watts is almost a dead certainty to become a star and fast tracking his career is only going to help our club.

Newton has done nothing at AFL level, despite numerous chances.

There is no doubt that Newton's attitude is a lot better these days and his work off the ball is very good. But at the end of the day he is one of the most experienced forwards at Casey but still can't really impose himself as a key forward, and he still can't kick.

He will definitely get another chance in the seniors this year, but let us never compare him to Watts. It's like comparing Scarlett to Nicholson!

By the way, Newton had a chance earlier this year to really cement a spot when Robbo was out injured and Bate was struggling. He didn't. The blame lies with him, and Jack Watts has absolutely nothing to do with where he is now.

[jacey 333]

newton looks like he tired first half pushed up ground defensive preasure was good hard tackles done by all

Newton looks good from that perspective but he still needs to get stronger.

It's surprising that Newton and Meesen aren't stronger even after all these years in the AFL system. Stronger body, Stronger hands (definitely needed) and a better kick for goal and we might revisit him.

Jurrah was in and out but when he gets hot, he gets very hot. Very exciting game. Nice marking skills, good kick for goal, actually a good kick all round.

Jordie looks good again.

Miller still can't kick for goal but a very good game.

[Roost It 1,434]

interestingly, it s probably the worst game Newton has played for a month. cant believe Watts was promoted before him. wth

Newton will never, I repeat never, make it at AFL level. The guy is a below average VFL player. How anyone thinks he will perform at AFL is absolutely beyond me. He is one of the biggest spuds currently on AFL lists.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

interestingly, it s probably the worst game Newton has played for a month. cant believe Watts was promoted before him. wth

And Godfrey didn't deserve to be de-listed. Selections are never about the future when you're on the bottom of the ladder are they?

Wonder if Rioli would still be playing at Box Hill if you were on the selection committee at Hawthorn.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Newton will never, I repeat never, make it at AFL level. The guy is a below average VFL player. How anyone thinks he will perform at AFL is absolutely beyond me. He is one of the biggest spuds currently on AFL lists.

I thought Newton was very ordinary today, he may have looked better on TV but at the game I didn't se anything to get excited about.

Miller was poor in the first half and played a lot better in the second half particularly the last quarter when the game was over. Would love to know how many of his marks were taken in the last quarter, bet it was at least half.

Jurrah is a beauty, special as Bruce would say.

[w00dy 146]

I thought Dunn was our best today. He had the best 4 quarter effort for mine. He doesn't get a lot of the footy at AFL level, but give him time. One thing he definitely does have, is good disposal by foot, something we definitely lack in our midfield. I think he will make it Lynden...

Juice was our best forward in the first half, Miller in the 2nd, mainly during junk time. LJ very exciting, seemed to be a little more consistant than what I'd seen of him previously.

Stef Martin pretty quiet, we know he can play back, but was quiet when up forward, and didn't look like getting near it. Hopefully he can improve in this area...

[Bay Riffin 1,472]

I thought Dunn was our best today. He had the best 4 quarter effort for mine. He doesn't get a lot of the footy at AFL level, but give him time. One thing he definitely does have, is good disposal by foot, something we definitely lack in our midfield. I think he will make it Lynden...

Juice was our best forward in the first half, Miller in the 2nd, mainly during junk time. LJ very exciting, seemed to be a little more consistant than what I'd seen of him previously.

Stef Martin pretty quiet, we know he can play back, but was quiet when up forward, and didn't look like getting near it. Hopefully he can improve in this area...

I really think that it's a shame we are moving Martin around so much. He was definitely making a name for himself as a defensive big man, able to compete with the bigger blokes at AFL level so well. I don't like him being swapped for rucking duties one week, then forward duties the next. Too many like Waite at Carlton have fallen victim to being swapped around too many times.

Keep the bloke at full back. Silvagni is very good at Casey but we must have the best key back in his rightful position.

I really think our club needs to be consistent with him, as he is still learning the game.

Imagine if we put Frawley, Rivers up forward all of a sudden and demanded they start a new role. Who knows what we would lose ?? Don't risk losing a potential fantastic full back for our club. With a bit more grunt he would be excellent at AFL level.

[Nasher 33,607]

I really think that it's a shame we are moving Martin around so much. He was definitely making a name for himself as a defensive big man, able to compete with the bigger blokes at AFL level so well. I don't like him being swapped for rucking duties one week, then forward duties the next. Too many like Waite at Carlton have fallen victim to being swapped around too many times.

Keep the bloke at full back. Silvagni is very good at Casey but we must have the best key back in his rightful position.

I really think our club needs to be consistent with him, as he is still learning the game.

Imagine if we put Frawley, Rivers up forward all of a sudden and demanded they start a new role. Who knows what we would lose ?? Don't risk losing a potential fantastic full back for our club. With a bit more grunt he would be excellent at AFL level.

I agree with the general principle of what you're saying, but I'm not sure if it works in this specific case. He's competing with Warnock, Garland, Rivers and Frawley, all of whom are ahead of him at the moment. He looks like he'll be a good player, but I can't see him being better than any of those in the short term. If he wants to be capable of cementing a spot in our side when competing against four very good players for a position, he needs to be versatile. I believe we'll also see Garland go forward a bit when he's back, for the same reason (and make no mistake, when Garland is fit and ready with match fitness, he will walk straight back in to the side). I don't think any of Warnock, Rivers or Frawley would be useful in the forward line.

Personally, come trade time I'd put Stef's name on the table and see what could be on offer. I reckon he's a dead certainty to make it as a defender, so given that we're overstocked and there are plenty of clubs with a shortage, we'd be in the prime position for negotiations.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Personally, come trade time I'd put Stef's name on the table and see what could be on offer. I reckon he's a dead certainty to make it as a defender, so given that we're overstocked and there are plenty of clubs with a shortage, we'd be in the prime position for negotiations.

You would be crazy trading him unless someone offered you a first round pick.

He is 22 with virtually one pre-season under him, 196cm, agile, a great contested mark and the potential for growth is enormous.

The scope for development in Martin is hard to measure in value, and even though we might be lucky with our plethora of defenders now, injuries happen, form drops, and keep in mind that Warnock and Rivers are both 25, and Rivers has a long history of injuries.

You trade surplus players if you have a few who are all the same, but Martin is the only truly big defender capable of playing on someone like a resting ruckman, he is the only one who can potentially develop into a secondary ruckman himself, he is one of the few talls who can be played both down back and up forward if given time to learn.

Of course if a club came to you said and "we'll give you pick 18 for Martin" you would seriously consider it, but I would not be actively putting him on the table, when in reality we won't get what he is worth to us on the open market (which means you only get him upset, and the entire exercise is pointless).

People forget that Martin has played as much football as Watts has, in fact, maybe even less. He never played in a proper under 18 side, he has completed one pre-season and before playing an AFL game spent probably 9 or 10 weeks learning to be a defender with Sandy. That is pretty remarkable when you think how far he has come.

Think of him as a second year recruit, and not as a 22 year old. Now would you trade a KPP in his second season? No you wouldn't.

To summarise, no f'ing way!

Edit: Can we for once enjoy having a decent backline where the problem is having too many, as opposed to no options? Why trade them away... so we can pick up yet another small HBF/HFF? No thanks.

[deanox 9,897]

id be more tempted to trade warnock than martin, although we'd get less for warnock imo

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Stop trading away our backline. It is the only solid thing we have going for us, and the one area we can actually build around.

Garland and Frawley can both play small, Rivers is more suited to a third man up role, leaving Warnock and Martin as big key defenders.

What is so wrong with having 5 defensive options to pick from, when in reality, one is likely to be out injured at any one time, and two of the five can possibly be played up forward?

There is no way we are trading Warnock or Martin or Rivers, especially if we get picks 1 & 2.

Other clubs can shove their under-valued draft picks.

If you want to trade, look at trading someone like Dunn. An early draft pick, can play midfield or forward and might attract some value. Buckley is another one that may attract interest. You won't get much for either player, but you probably won't get a whole lot more for Martin or Warnock either. So lets get rid of those who can't break into the 22, as opposed to those who have the talent to play in a premiership side.

Or we can always trade Juice

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

Personally, come trade time I'd put Stef's name on the table and see what could be on offer. I reckon he's a dead certainty to make it as a defender, so given that we're overstocked and there are plenty of clubs with a shortage, we'd be in the prime position for negotiations.

No way he's taller, stronger, quicker and younger than Rivers. He has a lot more up side than Rivers I don't think Rivers is part of our future if anything he is holding Martin back. Frawley and Garland are better than him and I'm convinced Martin will be. I'm not convinced about Warnock I think he lacks a football brain but he is quicker and we should get more at the trade table for Rivers.

Unless Bate and\or Robbo have shockers I wouldn't have Miller back in. He had a very good last half especially the last quarter but he is still kicking poorly I would have Jurrah ahead of him the kids a freakish excitement machine. Newton is useless he chased hard but his decision making was poor and he didn't have a big impact if we need a player to chase hard we may as well bring back Jetta. Martin is a backman so they should keep him there. McKenzie is a player of the future. Every other player played like you would expect them to play we had no real standouts unless we have a real shocker against the Pies Jurrah would be the only player I would consider to play against the dons.

[Carn dees 108]

No way he's taller, stronger, quicker and younger than Rivers. He has a lot more up side than Rivers I don't think Rivers is part of our future if anything he is holding Martin back.

Disagree, Rivers not a part of our future? How long away is this future..

and the other reason,well it could be his talent so he should be apart of our future team.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Rivers is more suited to a third man up role

Does that role exist in modern footy?

If there's one of our defenders I'd consider trading at the end of the year, it would be Rivers.

I can't believe I've just said that. In all seriousness, I fear for the longevity of Rivers and I'm not referring to his injuries here.

[Freak 100]

And Godfrey didn't deserve to be de-listed. Selections are never about the future when you're on the bottom of the ladder are they?

Wonder if Rioli would still be playing at Box Hill if you were on the selection committee at Hawthorn.

[Freak 100]

And Godfrey didn't deserve to be de-listed. Selections are never about the future when you're on the bottom of the ladder are they?

Wonder if Rioli would still be playing at Box Hill if you were on the selection committee at Hawthorn.

lol. below vfl standard? haha, nice one. he has been our best forward every game he has played. booting bags of 4 and 5.

The thing is Rioli wouldnt be at hawthorn if i was in charge. I would have picked up Rioli before morton. People under-rate the value of footskills and its the main reason why Bate, Miller etc tend to pi!ss people off.

At the end of the day, MIller has shown LESS than newton at afl standard so why does he get more chances? If someone can give me a logical reason as to why Newton woulndt be a gun at afl level than please tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a great mark, good kick usually, and his best feature is his work ethic (people that actually watch his games will attest to this).

[Goodvibes 3,596]

People under-rate the value of footskills

And if you think there's no logical reasons why Newton wouldn't be a gun at AFL level then you seriously under-rate the value of the skills above the neck.

[Freak 100]

has shown great decision making skills 'above the neck' at vfl level. why do people expect newton to play well when he isnt given a chance...has he ever played 10 games in a row at afl level? No. stupid development team at our club is a joke. Newton should have kicked over 30 goals this year so far

[Adam The God 30,126]

...including newton looking like he might turn the corner...

I must say, I've been calling for his return to the seniors, but I thought today he had little impact and in the end I'm glad he won't play in the 1s this week. Perhaps, in a few weeks though?

Newton will never, I repeat never, make it at AFL level. The guy is a below average VFL player. How anyone thinks he will perform at AFL is absolutely beyond me. He is one of the biggest spuds currently on AFL lists.

If he'd kicked straight earlier in the year (which granted, he didn't) he might have had a couple of AFL bags.

Juice was our best forward in the first half, Miller in the 2nd, mainly during junk time. LJ very exciting, seemed to be a little more consistant than what I'd seen of him previously.

I thought Jurrah was our most potent and dangerous forward in the first half.

Personally, come trade time I'd put Stef's name on the table and see what could be on offer. I reckon he's a dead certainty to make it as a defender, so given that we're overstocked and there are plenty of clubs with a shortage, we'd be in the prime position for negotiations.

I understand what you're saying Nasher and I can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind before, but for the first time in years, we have the potential to have great depth in our backhalf and we shouldn't sacrifice that, for a draft pick, which may return less potential than Martin offers us already. It'd be arrogant and unwise.

Stop trading away our backline. It is the only solid thing we have going for us, and the one area we can actually build around.

Agreed. I think talking trade, is a case of getting a bit greedy. Let's just be happy with what we've got, that being a very good, young, developing defensive unit.

No way he's taller, stronger, quicker and younger than Rivers. He has a lot more up side than Rivers I don't think Rivers is part of our future if anything he is holding Martin back. Frawley and Garland are better than him and I'm convinced Martin will be. I'm not convinced about Warnock I think he lacks a football brain but he is quicker and we should get more at the trade table for Rivers.

I think you're severly undervaluing Jared, Brockstar5. Rivers reads the ball better than anyone else in our entire side, has a heart as big as the MCG and has the potential to play on big KPP and shut them down. The St Kilda game is a great example. Rivers' kicking over the last two weeks hasn't been great, but by the same token, he hasn't had a lot to kick too.

Rivers is certainly part of our future and is a geniune leader. You only have to watch him, week in, week out. If there's a pack to be backed into with courage, he'll be there. If there's a chance for an interception, he'll be there. I can't speak highly enough of Jared. He's the sort of player that I'd have in my team every week.

[deanox 9,897]

Nasher perhaps rather than trade for a draft pick, a better option would be to trade for a player of similar potential for fits a gap in our structure?

ie another team needs a tall defender, we need a mid with pace and good foot skills. if a team has a couple to spare they might be willing to trade.

adamfarr, potent and dangerous yes i agree. but id agree he was the most potent and dangerous all day. miller might have taken a few marks and finished with a few, but he never looked potent nor dangerous. when he marked it he never looked confident of kicking it. newton i thought was our hardest working forward, in that he got to everything and was the target across half forward in the first half. he wasn't taking marks close to goal, but had a number of touches which set up shots at goal.

i like jurrah, and want to see him at afl level, but i dont think he is going for the same position as miller, but rather as an opportunistic medium forward. that is not a good way to pigeon hole him, especially not long term, but right now he wouldn't have the fitness to play the half forward role we ask of miller. he would need to be placed closer to goal.

[Adam The God 30,126]

i like jurrah, and want to see him at afl level, but i dont think he is going for the same position as miller, but rather as an opportunistic medium forward. that is not a good way to pigeon hole him, especially not long term, but right now he wouldn't have the fitness to play the half forward role we ask of miller. he would need to be placed closer to goal.

From what I read in another thread today, Jurrah has the potential to go into the middle and win ball there. But, I agree, at the moment, without a full pre-season under his belt he'll struggle to have the fitness to match it with others who have done their full pre-seasons. In the future, I'd expect him to be a lot more versitile than an opportunistic forward and by the sound of it, he will be versitile.

It's not just our backline that I'm getting excited about at the moment, it's the load of potential in our forwardline as well.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,023]

I'm very interested in the number of people who have put Bartram in our best today. Am I the only one who noticed that his kicks went to the opposition more than they did to his teammates? He's probably near the top of their goal assist stats for the day. Seriously, the guy is a menace with the ball in his hands. Worse than Godfrey any day.

[Freak 100]

trading stef martin? now i've heard it all.

Thats actually a good idea. Todays key position players are getting taller, e.g. Franklin 196cm, Watts 196cm, Butcher 197cm etc so I think it would be a great idea to trade our biggest and tallest 200cm key position back that has plenty of upside.

[btdemon 482]

People who would think of trading Steph martin have no idea. The guy is 198cm, super quick, great hands, great leap, fantastic anticipation and is still learning the game. WTF!!! Why don't we give Jack watts away too!!! Martin can be anything and may end up the power forward that we need or one of the most attacking defenders.

I think I better have a lie down. The whole thought of it has made me very stressed.