i disagree. i thought he was poor and loose on sunday. in the first half he was 'manning up' (and I use that term loosely) on Varcoe at the centre bounces. When the ball came forward Rivers would do his thing but loose his man. 3 or 4 times varcoe was the loose, unmarked man in the forward line who allowed a certain geelong goal as they out numbered us around the ball.

i would like to watch the replay and see how often he lost his man, and how many goals were kicked on him. And while he is one of my favourites, I will be watching more closely the next few weeks to see what his man gets away with whil he is zoning off.

i was very dissapointed with rivers on sunday.

Yes I agree. Although my point was - just to clarify - Rivers critical error was that kick. It's what was listed in the 'Critical Error' column in the Age stats. I think this is errors that are considered 'direct'.

As you quite rightly pointed out, leaving a man unmarked (ie 5m off opponent) can create the loose man for the opposition. This leads to goals against - and might be considered 'indirect', they might have to have another column for this stat. I wondered at times when Varcoe was loose, who was on him....thanks for the tip. I'll be looking to the replay this week too.

I always backed Frawley. He had all the quilities to be a great player- speed, height, strength, overhead marking.

I think people on the site should take a good hard look at themselves when they write off players in the first year or 2.

Surely after Garland and Frawley, we now see that players take time to develop.

Shame on those bagging Morton and Maric. Morton especially is one of our best players at 19 yrs old and is an insect! Maric in only his 6th game. Really poor efforts by some on this site

Ah, there's a difference between a little bagging & giving up on or writing players off.

Often the player may need/respond to a little criticism, (if constructive) well meaning & can have a positive outcome.

Frawls does need to work on improving his kicking action & Morton needs to improve his left side.

But they're both definite keepers.

He will be a superstar, All Australian backman.

The real deal.

Mate comments like that are just rubbish.

It's his second year playing in the senior side regularly.

Give it a rest.

Yes I agree. Although my point was - just to clarify - Rivers critical error was that kick. It's what was listed in the 'Critical Error' column in the Age stats. I think this is errors that are considered 'direct'.

As you quite rightly pointed out, leaving a man unmarked (ie 5m off opponent) can create the loose man for the opposition. This leads to goals against - and might be considered 'indirect', they might have to have another column for this stat. I wondered at times when Varcoe was loose, who was on him....thanks for the tip. I'll be looking to the replay this week too.

no worries, i didnt realise you were referring to the error 'stat'.

i think the problem was, he wasn't 5 meters away. a couple of times when varcoe got it loose i looked for rivers and he wasn't within 10 or 15 meters. i havn't checked the replay so can't be sure, but I am assuming he dropped off his man to do the zone spoil thing, and his man had the smart sense to go and stand by himself in the goal square.

the zone and spoil thing works better when you are playing on a tall leading forward, because if their lead is ignored you can drop back into the contest, and know that your man is on the other side of play. small men try to crumb packs where they get loose quick ball.

Always liked the way Chip has gone about his work.

Re Rivers (great posts deanox, HT) I didn't think he played a great game either. Maybe not even good. After he went to Mooney, Mooney got very easy marks and kicked 2.3 (should have kicked at least 4 of those). Would love to hear how your review of his game goes.

We had some good defenders during the 90's but I would say we are probably developing our best backline unit since the late 80's when we had the likes of Danny Hughes, Brett Lovett, Sean Wight, Rod Grinter.

I had great confidence in that backline. They rarely put in a poor game. (OK, with the exception of the '88 Grand Final.)

Would be great if this group could be just as good. Time will tell.

And don't forget Jamie Duursma!

And don't forget Jamie Duursma!

Hey was a good solid Player Jamie Dursma. Gave his all for the Demons in 88. Such a shame he did his knee. Good Bloke too, shared a few beers at a certain "Sports Bar" in King st one Morning with James.

And don't forget Jamie Duursma!

Duursma only played 33 games for the Dees over two seasons, 1988-89.

But he was a great player for the club in that time. Gave his all. Classic no-thrills defender.

Highlight of his career would have to be the '88 Preliminary Final. Took a couple of whacks from Kernahan, one behind the play. He gets right up and runs over and tells him about it. Great day.

There is the story/rumour of what Duursma did to Kernahan before the opening bounce that put Kernahan in a such an irritiable mood. But I don't think I can repeat it here.

Chip seems to have gears. He can seem to be moving at top pace then really put the hammer down.

Best thing about if he continues to develop is that we grabbed him before the Wet Toast. A flag side with Chip, Jetta & Bennell would be very sweet!

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, and thought this was an appropriate thread to use.

Before his injury on Sunday, I noticed Frawley pushing an opposition player over while he was trying to put his boot back on. (maybe la cras?). the ball was being thrown in so frawley kept knocking him off balance, pushing him around so he couldn't join in the play.

I thought this really demonstrated how much his confidence has improved the last few weeks. he is comfortable with himself at afl level, and feels like he belongs, enough that he can do things like this.

It is great to see a bit of niggle in a young player, i'd love to see more mfc players get stuck in.

Hey was a good solid Player Jamie Dursma. Gave his all for the Demons in 88. Such a shame he did his knee. Good Bloke too, shared a few beers at a certain "Sports Bar" in King st one Morning with James.

Yes, good bloke. Saw him in Albury in a pub about 6-7 years ago, had a beer and certainly spoke of that Preliminary Final when he played very well.

Best thing about if he continues to develop is that we grabbed him before the Wet Toast. A flag side with Chip, Jetta & Bennell would be very sweet!

against the West Coast would be even sweeter.

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, and thought this was an appropriate thread to use.

Before his injury on Sunday, I noticed Frawley pushing an opposition player over while he was trying to put his boot back on. (maybe la cras?). the ball was being thrown in so frawley kept knocking him off balance, pushing him around so he couldn't join in the play.

I thought this really demonstrated how much his confidence has improved the last few weeks. he is comfortable with himself at afl level, and feels like he belongs, enough that he can do things like this.

It is great to see a bit of niggle in a young player, i'd love to see more mfc players get stuck in.

Have noticed this also. Seems to relish a bit of physical jostling and stoush whilst off the ball. Little bit of intimidation is good for confidence and keeps the opposition not only honest, but tells them they're in for one hell of a game.

Bit like a chip off the old block. Or in this case, uncle.

Bit like a chip off the old block. Or in this case, uncle.

Apparently his old man was a gun too, and just as tough. I heard an interview with Danny Frawley once about spending most of his career trying to get his brother to have a kick with the Saints, but he wasn't interested.

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, and thought this was an appropriate thread to use.

Before his injury on Sunday, I noticed Frawley pushing an opposition player over while he was trying to put his boot back on. (maybe la cras?). the ball was being thrown in so frawley kept knocking him off balance, pushing him around so he couldn't join in the play.

I thought this really demonstrated how much his confidence has improved the last few weeks. he is comfortable with himself at afl level, and feels like he belongs, enough that he can do things like this.

It is great to see a bit of niggle in a young player, i'd love to see more mfc players get stuck in.

Yeah, he kept pushing Le Cras (annoying little [censored] that he is) off balance and wouldn't let him put his shoe back on.

One of the highlights of the day

A real shame he got injured, because Chip is absolutely flying at the moment. Physically he is beating his opponents, and mentally he seems to have a lot of self belief. In years gone past he looked like a lost kid, someone terrified of making a mistaken. Now he can't wait to take on his opponent each week.

If he was playing for a high profile club, the media would be all over him like a rash!

Is Chip Captain material?

probably yes, but not for us. If anyone has heard Watts talk he is amazingly professional. A good combination of humour and professionalism. I think our captains will come from:

Mclean

Watts

or both (i.e Mclean then Watts)

probably yes, but not for us. If anyone has heard Watts talk he is amazingly professional. A good combination of humour and professionalism. I think our captains will come from:

Mclean

Watts

or both (i.e Mclean then Watts)

I was all for Mclean but it's not going to happen. I'd have Davey being a real bolter. Watts or Grimes in the end.

davey would be the worst captain. Great player but to be captain you have to speak well in front of the media. And whilst Davey has improved in this area...he will never be anywhere near as confident or able compared to our other candidates

davey would be the worst captain. Great player but to be captain you have to speak well in front of the media. And whilst Davey has improved in this area...he will never be anywhere near as confident or able compared to our other candidates

To discount him because of a supposed weakness in talking to the media is harsh. I'm making the call on what I've seen and heard of him this year. I know it's a long shot but currently he's closer to the top than both Mclean and Watts

davey would be the worst captain. Great player but to be captain you have to speak well in front of the media. And whilst Davey has improved in this area...he will never be anywhere near as confident or able compared to our other candidates

Kernahan?

Hall?

Neitz?

davey would be the worst captain. Great player but to be captain you have to speak well in front of the media. And whilst Davey has improved in this area...he will never be anywhere near as confident or able compared to our other candidates

That, like most things in life is something you can improve at over time. An excellent example is Michael Long. When he was first on tv he was very nervous and his articulation was quite limited. Over time he became a better public speaker as a player and now he does adds, ambasadorial work and sports commentary amongst many other things. Sheedy was a big part in helping Long come out of his shell though in the public sphere and I am sure Davey would have people around him to help out if he was ever in that specific situation.

Just as a little side anecdote, apparently when Long first joined Essendon Sheedy asked him what his favourite position was and he replied "on top". :D